Relaxation of Restrictions, Part XI *Read OP For Mod Warnings*

FintanMcluskey

charlie14 wrote: »

TBh I cannot see it. Masks and social distancing has cut flu numbers. That is undeniable. But only because of the high levels of deaths, severe symptoms and after effects from Covid have people complied on both.
Unfortunately perhaps we have learned to live with flu deaths at a lower level than Covid, so I would not see anywhere near the same compliance on social distancing and masks for flu. Nor could I see the government attempting to enforce it. Varadkar`s comment seems more from having his doctors hat on than his political one.

Best I can see regarding flu is a better take up of the flu vaccine, (and more effective flu vaccines ), because of Covid.

I’ve found this the hardest to understand throughout this

Surely if you support mask wearing throughout Covid you will support it in future?

Or if someone on the TV tells us it’s ok, we will be content to spread other potentially fatal respiratory illnesses?

How many deaths are you happy with?

charlie14

Gortanna wrote: »

I hope you're right, but if they start reporting case numbers for the flu from now on then it will change how people view the flu.

That might actually be a very good idea. It would perhaps make people more aware and encourage greater flu vaccine uptake. Especially now when everyone and their dog knows how infection spreads.

Spiderman0081

charlie14 wrote: »

TBh I cannot see it. Masks and social distancing has cut flu numbers. That is undeniable. But only because of the high levels of deaths, severe symptoms and after effects from Covid have people complied on both.
Unfortunately perhaps we have learned to live with flu deaths at a lower level than Covid, so I would not see anywhere near the same compliance on social distancing and masks for flu. Nor could I see the government attempting to enforce it. Varadkar`s comment seems more from having his doctors hat on than his political one.

Best I can see regarding flu is a better take up of the flu vaccine, (and more effective flu vaccines ), because of Covid.

What would explain the dramatic drop in flu cases in Sweden? Masks?

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Yet you're fairly determined to convince us they'll be around permanently for some reason?

I'm not. I'm saying that a lot of scientists and doctors are.

Gibraltar has vaccinated its entire population and masks are still required in shops and on public transport: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/04/gibraltar-covid-vaccination-safe.html

Israel and UAE must surely be close to herd immunity, if they haven't already reached it, and masks are still required (Israel has scrapped the outdoor requirement only). Same with the UK. And yet councils there are recruiting covid marshalls to work until 2022, and possibly until 2023. Dominic Raab said today masks and distancing would probably continue after the 21st of June. So it seems that herd immunity isn't enough to get rid of them.

radiotrickster

I’m renting in an apartment block that has hot desks and the property management have told us that when “restrictions ease” they’ll be opened up for use. We’ve asked which restrictions exactly they fall under to get an idea but they were a bit evasive and didn’t seem sure.

Anyone have any idea? I’m reluctant to get a desk because I’m only WFH for a couple of days a month in a casual second job, but lately I’m finding it hard to concentrate and get distracted easily.

Graham

Gortanna wrote: »

I'm not. I'm saying that a lot of scientists and doctors are.

Some are, most aren't

I'm beginning to think you're deliberately ignoring that fact for some reason while scrambling to find other reasons to suggest masks might be around permanently.

Graham

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I’ve found this the hardest to understand throughout this

Surely if you support mask wearing throughout Covid you will support it in future?

Advanced planning for the next pandemic?

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I don't see them fading away. For a lot of people they have become a fashion statement. And the World Economic Forum was promoting a smart face mask a few weeks ago. But as long as they're not mandatory then I don't really care if people continue to wear them.

Maybe they are a fashion statement for some but patience must be wearing thin at this stage and fashion is fickle. Most people don’t really like them so couldn’t really see it long term. Like Spain has a mask mandate ( or at least had and think still does) everywhere, inside and outside imagine that in forty degree heat, anyone would be suffocating. Was reading recently that some UK people who usually go to Spain on holiday said they wouldn’t go because of the masks as they couldn’t bear them in the heat.

Graham

Graham wrote: »

Some are, most aren't

I'm beginning to think you're deliberately ignoring that fact for some reason while scrambling to find other reasons to suggest masks might be around permanently.

But the ones who are are in prominent positions. Dr Mary Ramsay of Public Health England. Professor John Edmunds of SAGE. If I'm not mistaken Dr Holohan said the vaccines would complement the current measures.

I don't want them to be around permanently and I'm not suggesting they will be. I am arguing that it's curious that Gibraltar, Israel, UAE and the UK haven't got rid of masks altogether. They have all surely hit, or are close to hitting, herd immunity.

Spiderman0081

Spiderman0081 wrote: »

What would explain the dramatic drop in flu cases in Sweden? Masks?

The drop in flu cases everywhere else

gansi

gansi wrote: »

Maybe they are a fashion statement for some but patience must be wearing thin at this stage and fashion is fickle. Most people don’t really like them so couldn’t really see it long term. Like Spain has a mask mandate ( or at least had and think still does) everywhere, inside and outside imagine that in forty degree heat, anyone would be suffocating. Was reading recently that some UK people who usually go to Spain on holiday said they wouldn’t go because of the masks as they couldn’t bear them in the heat.

Spain still has, and has even tightened the rules on mask wearing. They are required everywhere there. I can't see Spain ever being mask free. People have been wearing them for a year and there has been almost no pushback against them (save for a couple of small protests, but a good few months ago). Gibraltar, the UK, Israel and UAE should be mask free, or at least close to being mask free, since they are surely close to herd immunity, if they haven't already hit it. But they're far from it. Of the four, Gibraltar has done the most in terms of scrapping them, but they're still required in shops and on public transport for some reason, even though the population has been vaccinated.

Graham

Gortanna wrote: »

Spain still has, and has even tightened the rules on mask wearing.

Maybe

still not permanent

Graham

gansi wrote: »

Maybe they are a fashion statement for some

I really doubt it.

titan18

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Spain still has, and has even tightened the rules on mask wearing. They are required everywhere there. I can't see Spain ever being mask free. People have been wearing them for a year and there has been almost no pushback against them (save for a couple of small protests, but a good few months ago). Gibraltar, the UK, Israel and UAE should be mask free, or at least close to being mask free, since they are surely close to herd immunity, if they haven't already hit it. But they're far from it. Of the four, Gibraltar has done the most in terms of scrapping them, but they're still required in shops and on public transport for some reason, even though the population has been vaccinated.

There was a decent amount of pushback in Spain. The government has to clarify and allow for exceptions around it (at the beach etc)

scamalert

Graham wrote: »

I really doubt it.

i have a d**k drawn on mine

titan18

titan18 wrote: »

There was a decent amount of pushback in Spain. The government has to clarify and allow for exceptions around it (at the beach etc)

But I mean in the past year, save for a couple of protests (the last one I can recall was last year), there has been hardly any pushback.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But it's very possible that the flu will henceforth be treated the way covid has been, that is to say with mandatory mask wearing and social distancing. Varadkar said in an interview a few months ago that "we know what to do for the flu now".

Its also possible that aliens will land on earth tomorrow. Eitherway I'm not going to be worrying about it .

Chris_5339762

I can see them stay for shopping and for public transport for the foreseeable, anyway. Not the end of the world, but I can see it being anathema to some people. I work in a non clinical side of the hospital, and you have to wear masks literally all the time now. That's going nowhere, ever.

titan18

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But I mean in the past year, save for a couple of protests (the last one I can recall was last year), there has been hardly any pushback.

Big difference between advising masks when there's a load of cases and deaths and advising them when those drop off. I reckon there'll be push back when it comes to them attempting to make this mandatory longer term.

Chris_5339762

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I can see them stay for shopping and for public transport for the foreseeable, anyway. Not the end of the world, but I can see it being anathema to some people. I work in a non clinical side of the hospital, and you have to wear masks literally all the time now. That's going nowhere, ever.

Would you agree that there's no justification for mandatory mask wearing in the UK lasting beyond the 21st of June? Including in shops and on public transport. Or, if the UK hasn't reached herd immunity by then, when it has. It must surely have either hit it or be close to hitting it.

scamalert

Chris_5339762 wrote: »

I can see them stay for shopping and for public transport for the foreseeable, anyway. Not the end of the world, but I can see it being anathema to some people. I work in a non clinical side of the hospital, and you have to wear masks literally all the time now. That's going nowhere, ever.

to appease hypochondriacs, people wear em like towels now anyway, upside down over the nose mouth out, if thats the worry we will be stuck once pubs and restaurants open and travel resumes its not a big cluterfck to deal with, in comparison what we went trough so imagine while its annoying to wear em at work, but it will be first to go once people relax.

gozunda

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Spain still has, and has even tightened the rules on mask wearing. They are required everywhere there. I can't see Spain ever being mask free. People have been wearing them for a year and there has been almost no pushback against them (save for a couple of small protests, but a good few months ago). Gibraltar, the UK, Israel and UAE should be mask free, or at least close to being mask free, since they are surely close to herd immunity, if they haven't already hit it. But they're far from it. Of the four, Gibraltar has done the most in terms of scrapping them, but they're still required in shops and on public transport for some reason, even though the population has been vaccinated.

Where are you getting the idea we or other countries are near or at herd immunity? Afaik approx 80-82 percent of the population needs to be immune to COVID-19 to stop its transmission through vaccination and herd immunity.

titan18

titan18 wrote: »

Big difference between advising masks when there's a load of cases and deaths and advising them when those drop off. I reckon there'll be push back when it comes to them attempting to make this mandatory longer term.

I agree. But it's strange that in fully vaccinated Gibraltar they're still required in shops and on public transport. I think they're required everywhere in the UAE, where over half the population has been vaccinated. In the UK, where deaths and case numbers are on the floor, Dominic Raab said they'd probably be required beyond the 21st of June. And in heavily vaccinated Israel they're required indoors. If they haven't been scrapped in those countries by now (particularly Gibraltar, the UK and Israel) then I don't see when they'll ever scrap them.

AlekSmart

Sharpyshoot wrote: »

Can we get Donegal people to wear masks during coitus.

Well to be fair,the Muff Divers have ALWAYS worn masks......:P

https://www.muffdivingclub.ie/

gozunda

gozunda wrote: »

Where are you getting the idea we or other countries are near or at herd immunity? Afaik approx 80-82 percent of the population needs to be immune to COVID-19 to stop its transmission through vaccination and herd immunity.

Gibraltar, according to this article, is fully vaccinated: https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2021/04/gibraltar-covid-vaccination-safe.html

The UK was predicted to have reached herd immunity a few weeks ago by a UCL model. Even if the model was wrong, it must surely be close to hitting it. Case numbers and deaths there are on the floor.

Israel has vaccinated around 60% of its population.

I've heard scientists say that 70% would be sufficient to reach herd immunity.

AlekSmart

carveone wrote: »

Which they aren't. Apparently kids sports in groups of 15 are allowed. Just walked by Portmarnock GAA fields - dozens of cars, adult matches happening, 30 or so men. Same guys I saw two weeks ago.

Sure, I'll now be accused of curtain twitching or what have you. But this carry on is what ruins it for the rest of us. They just can't let the kids get out for much needed running about without trying to elbow their way in..

Excellent news for sure.

30 males engaging in mass sports gathering.

You noted them 2 weeks ago,and they're still at it now.

This would suggest that they have remained healthy and active in this outdoor setting ?

Well done them !

titan18

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I agree. But it's strange that in fully vaccinated Gibraltar they're still required in shops and on public transport. I think they're required everywhere in the UAE, where over half the population has been vaccinated. In the UK, where deaths and case numbers are on the floor, Dominic Raab said they'd probably be required beyond the 21st of June. And in heavily vaccinated Israel they're required indoors. If they haven't been scrapped in those countries by now (particularly Gibraltar, the UK and Israel) then I don't see when they'll ever scrap them.

I dunno, I can't see it. It'll be one of the last things to go, but it's not something I can see being enforced longer term. Our shops really going to be bothered requesting people to wear masks when everyone is vaccinated like.

There'll be a lot more refusing then vs now, and you'll also have people complaining about the environmental impact they're having.

Graham

Last few pages have just been a bit odd.

Now restrictions are being relaxed why would anyone want to sit around and invent new future post-pandemic restrictions?

Bit cynical

charlie14 wrote: »

That might actually be a very good idea. It would perhaps make people more aware and encourage greater flu vaccine uptake. Especially now when everyone and their dog knows how infection spreads.

Do they want everyone to get the flu vaccine? I thought it was limited to certain groups.

scamalert

Graham wrote: »

Last few pages have just been a bit odd.

Now restrictions are being relaxed why would anyone want to sit around and invent new future post-pandemic restrictions?

it must be the new strain that's spreading, leaky brainititus :pac: