Caitlyn Jenner's statement on trans girls in girls' sports (MOD NOTE IN OP)

jackboy

Leroy42 wrote: »

Work well on what basis? They certainly don't work well based on trans people.

Using the earlier poster google definition of woman being an "adult female human being" than a female trans is entitled into sport.

Things need to adapt as we get more knowledgeable, simply sticking to what worked before is not ever the answer.

Trans women consider themselves to be female, many disagree, but under the previous rules they should be allowed to compete. It is the rules that are looking to be changed to 'gender at birth' rather than gender.

You are again confusing gender with biological sex. It’s not possible to change biological sex. The current rules in no way discriminate against trans athletes. A female athlete that is a biological male will still compete against other biological males.

Akrasia

Leroy42 wrote: »

Work well on what basis? They certainly don't work well based on trans people.

Using the earlier poster google definition of woman being an "adult female human being" than a female trans is entitled into sport.

Things need to adapt as we get more knowledgeable, simply sticking to what worked before is not ever the answer.

Trans women consider themselves to be female, many disagree, but under the previous rules they should be allowed to compete. It is the rules that are looking to be changed to 'gender at birth' rather than gender.

Gender and sex are 2 different things

mohawk

Leroy42 wrote: »

No one is dismissing any of it. Can you point out a post that says there is no physical differences between men and women?

Leroy42 your own posts are trying to argue that females have their own sports for traditional reasons. As well as trying to argue that we don’t ban Phelps from swimming.
At elite level you have the best of the best males against each other. Then you have another category if the best of the best females. A quick review of the record books should tell you all you need to know about whether males and females should complete against each other. The answer is yes in horse racing and no in the vast, vast majority of sports.
The Williams sisters, Katie Taylor are incredible, dedicated athletes. They would never have become number one in mixed sex sports.

Jenner is correct. Sports should be single sex with very few exceptions. End of story.

Sardonicat

Leroy42 wrote: »

Work well on what basis? They certainly don't work well based on trans people.

Using the earlier poster google definition of woman being an "adult female human being" than a female trans is entitled into sport.

Things need to adapt as we get more knowledgeable, simply sticking to what worked before is not ever the answer.

Trans women consider themselves to be female, many disagree, but under the previous rules they should be allowed to compete. It is the rules that are looking to be changed to 'gender at birth' rather than gender.

If I consider myself a racehorse am I "entitled" to have a jockey jump up on my back and run around the track at Punchestown?

Annasopra

Sardonicat wrote: »

So, why are trans women kept separate?

Each case is assessed individually

KeepItLight

KeepItLight wrote: »

How about an actual answer, if you have one?

Studies have shown that a transwoman (born male) brain closer resembles the female brain than it does the male brain.

ILoveYourVibes

KeepItLight wrote: »

Can't you answer the question directly if you're capable of it?

I can't answer it. I am neither a hetero man who cross dresses nor a trans women.

That is why i was asking you a hetero man i presume to answer it for me.

I would think one main difference between a hetero cross dressing guy and a trans woman is the former likes to sleep with women and the latter usually doesn't.

Have you ever seen a t shirt that was originally made for women and gone ..oh i like that? Would you be trans if you put it on??

I mean were do we draw the line?? Pink shirts? Long hair on men?

Are hetero men trans if they grow their hair long?

Are hippie men trans ??

Akrasia

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

She would have an advantage.

In some sports, and in those cases, it’s unfair for boys to have to compete against girls, the apparatus in gymnastics are different for boys and girls to account for the biological differences

KeepItLight

Deleted User wrote: »

Studies have shown that a transwoman (born male) brain closer resembles the female brain than it does the male brain.

So if they were men with one of these brain structures, who then put on a dress they would be trans.

But men with more a masculine brain structure are just cross-dressers if they put on a dress?

ILoveYourVibes

Akrasia wrote: »

In some sports, and in those cases, it’s unfair for boys to have to compete against girls, the apparatus in gymnastics are different for boys and girls to account for the biological differences

Yup.

Sardonicat

Annasopra wrote: »

Each case is assessed individually

And in each case it's been concluded to keep them separate? Why?

Annasopra

Sardonicat wrote: »

If I consider myself a racehorse am I "entitled" to have a jockey jump up on my back and run around the track at Punchestown?

Maybe if you had a point that was civil and respecful instead of literally comparing trans people to animals you might get a response.

ILoveYourVibes

KeepItLight wrote: »

So if they were men who put on a dress they would be trans.

But men with more a masculine brain structure are just cross-dressers if they put on a dress?

are men with long hair ...trans??

I mean its USUALLY associated with femininity ...

are these guys trans?

I mean the above guys love having long hair ..trans women love having long hair etc.

Annasopra

Annasopra wrote: »

Trans people dont choose to be trans. Its nonsense to suggest they do.

But being transgender is a spectrum, yes? Isn't that what Isha said? It was a different poster who said they choose to be trans.

You can't choose your sexual fetishes either. A man who has an urge to dress up as a women as they find it a turn on would fall under the umbrella of trans as per the recent law in Scotland (according to isha). Suggesting such people are not trans is transphobic.

Akrasia

Leroy42 wrote: »

I honestly don't understand the questions. I am not arguing against weight classes.

Michella Tyson would be in a different weight class so they won't fight.

I would use strength, rather than gender, that is what I am arguing.

So the strongest women in the world would be reduced to fighting in the 5th division against mediocre male athletes? It would completely devalue women’s elite sports

ILoveYourVibes

Sardonicat wrote: »

And in each case it's been concluded to keep them separate? Why?

I don't know.

Maybe for the safety of the trans person tbh.

I mean there is a lot of transphobic women gangs who might attack them.

It can't be easy being trans in prisons.

suicide_circus

Leroy42 wrote: »

Trans people feel that the physical is less important that the mental.

But some white people feel that they are members of a superior race. People's feelings have never been a reliable barometer of reality. People feel all kinds of things which aren't true.

Cody montana

Cancel all genders in sports.
Then we'll see who will make the team.

Joking!

I agree with Jenner though.

KeepItLight

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

are men with long hair ...trans??

I mean its USUALLY associated with femininity ...

are these guys trans?

So for the third time, you've refused to answer the question directly and instead deflected into a snide remark. As I assumed, you are full of sh!t. I'll leave you to it.

DeadHand

Akrasia wrote: »

So the strongest women in the world would be reduced to fighting in the 5th division against mediocre male athletes? It would completely devalue women’s elite sports

They wouldn’t even make the fifth division.

The strongest female combat athletes in the world would be easily outmatched by even junior and amateur men to the point the contest would be dangerous and immoral.

To throw them in against even mediocre or bottom tier male professionals would be barbaric.

Sardonicat

Annasopra wrote: »

Maybe if you had a point that was civil and respecful instead of literally comparing trans people to animals you might get a response.

I'm not comparing trans people to animals. Just because someone 'considers themselves' to be something doesn't mean they are. Doesn't change their entitlement to consider themselves to be anything, or to be treated as they wish, but should extend to the point of having their 'belief' bestow rights upon them that infringe on the rights of others. Why is it ok to unquestionably accept someone who believes they are a different gender than what they were biologically born as bit not ok to accept someone who believes themselves to be a different species? ( such individuals do exist, BTW)

ILoveYourVibes

Hhhhh wrote: »

A man who has an urge to dress up as a women as they find it a turn on would fall under the umbrella of trans as per the recent law in Scotland (according to isha). Suggesting such people are not trans is transphobic.

What if they themselves object to being called trans?

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If i dressed you in a skirt would you be trans?

If they identified as trans then yes they would be. Do you not agree?

Eoinbmw

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I can do the splits ....how are your splits??

These are rythmic gymnastic splits.



the back bends are going to scare you

My nuts hurt just looking at that...

ILoveYourVibes

Sardonicat wrote: »

Why is it ok to unquestionably accept someone who believes they are a different gender than what they were biologically born as bit not ok to accept someone who believes themselves to be a different species? ( such individuals do exist, BTW)

Honestly because it just is.

ILoveYourVibes

Eoinbmw wrote: »

My nuts hurt just looking at that...

:P:pac:

volchitsa

mohawk wrote: »

Leroy42 your own posts are trying to argue that females have their own sports for traditional reasons. As well as trying to argue that we don’t ban Phelps from swimming.
At elite level you have the best of the best males against each other. Then you have another category if the best of the best females. A quick review of the record books should tell you all you need to know about whether males and females should complete against each other. The answer is yes in horse racing and no in the vast, vast majority of sports.
The Williams sisters, Katie Taylor are incredible, dedicated athletes. They would never have become number one in mixed sex sports.

Jenner is correct. Sports should be single sex with very few exceptions. End of story.

It's amusing to see random posters on the internet who think they understand the question better than a former olympic athlete who is themselves a trans person.

Amusing and yet somehow tragic, seeing as their opinion seems to be the fashionable one at the moment.

It will be interesting to see the reactions to Caitlin Jenner's statement. If she isn't intimidated into withdrawing it, that is.

Sardonicat

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Honestly because it just is.

Huh?

Leroy42

Leroy42 wrote: »

I honestly don't understand the questions. I am not arguing against weight classes.

Michella Tyson would be in a different weight class so they won't fight.

I would use strength, rather than gender, that is what I am arguing.

If you were to use strength then the tranwomen would end up fighting the men, and the transmen the women*, leaving the exact same problem (well for you) to begin with.

*unless they went on hormones, which are a banned substance in sport.

ILoveYourVibes

Hhhhh wrote: »

If they identified as trans then yes they would be. Do you not agree?

Yes if they identified as trans they would be women ..do you agree?

If they identified as trans they would not be hetero male cross dressers would they ...do you agree?

And calling trans women ...male cross dressers ..would be disrespectful.