Caitlyn Jenner's statement on trans girls in girls' sports (MOD NOTE IN OP)

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Finding myself in agreement with Caitlyn Jenner - how very odd. Stopped clocks and all that...

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

Studies have shown that a transwoman (born male) brain closer resembles the female brain than it does the male brain.

What was the the statistical significance of those results i.e. the p-value? I'd hazard a guess the results were outside statistical significance. Have you a link to the paper?

ILoveYourVibes

Sardonicat wrote: »

Huh?

The matter is settled.

No one has to bat these rather silly outlandish arguments that lead to nothing useful or interesting back and forth anymore. And that is not to offend your good self, it really isn't.

It's the fallacy of infinite regress.

We have done all this. We have HAD every argument. We have moved beyond this as a society now.

It just is. The earth is round ..because IT JUST IS.


There has to be a finite timeline for such arguments. None of us are going to LIVE that long for a start.

The earth is not flat and transwomen are women. I am not going to argue either of those points to infinity and beyond!

I mean ...some people still don't believe the earth is round!

Case closed.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What if they themselves object to being called trans?

Then they are self-hating transphobes. There are plenty of gay men who object to being called gay as they can't accept what they are.

Timberrrrrrrr

EddieN75 wrote: »

I take offense to your snide remark. I'm entitled to my opinion.

Cancel culture

Opinions are like arseholes, we all have one but that doesn't mean we should shove them in other people's faces.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Yes if they identified as trans they would be women ..do you agree?

It depends, are they identifying in the midst of cross-dressing or not?

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

If they identified as trans they would not be hetero male cross dressers would they ...do you agree?

You can be a hetero male cross dresser and trans.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

And calling trans women ...male cross dressers ..would be disrespectful.

Male cross dressers are within the spectrum of transgender. To suggest otherwise is transphobic.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

No they are not. They are just equally protected against violent hate crimes under law.

Cross dressers are included in the definition of trans. As you say, you do not know enough about it.

ILoveYourVibes

Hhhhh wrote: »

Then they are self-hating transphobes. There are plenty of gay men who object to being called gay as they can't accept what they are.

You think hetero cis men with long hair in pink shirts are trans but cannot accept who they are then i take it?

Cody montana

How many people are we talking about?
There can't be that many transgender people that this applies to?

Think she/he is trying to find a narrative to run on.

Galwayguy35

Jenner is right, someone who was born male is going to have an unfair advantage in a sports competition over a person who was born female.

The MMA fight Fallon Fox was in proved that not only have they an advantage but it can lead to injury as well.

ILoveYourVibes

isha wrote: »

Cross dressers are included in the definition of trans. As you say, you do not know enough about it.

So men with long hair ??? Are they trans?

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The matter is settled.

No one has to bat these rather silly outlandish arguments that lead to nothing useful or interesting back and forth anymore. And that is not to offend your good self, it really isn't.

It's the fallacy of infinite regress.

We have done all this. We have HAD every argument. We have moved beyond this as a society now.

It just is. The earth is round ..because IT JUST IS.


There has to be a finite timeline for such arguments. None of us are going to LIVE that long for a start.

The earth is not flat and transwomen are women. I am not going to argue either of those points to infinity and beyond!

I mean ...some people still don't believe the earth is round!

Case closed.

The Earth isn't round, and transwomen aren't women. The Earth is an oblate spheroid, and transwomen are men.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

You think hetero cis men with long hair in pink shirts are trans but cannot accept who they are then i take it?

Are these hetero cis men with long hair in pink shirts cross dressers or not?

ILoveYourVibes

Hhhhh wrote: »

The Earth isn't round, and transwomen aren't women. The Earth is an oblate spheroid, and transwomen are men.

An oblate spheroid is ..wait for it ..round.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Studies have shown that a transwoman (born male) brain closer resembles the female brain than it does the male brain.

Studies also show that busy London taxi drivers who have long work experience have a much larger development of the area of the brain related to spatial memory compared to others. This does not mean they resemble or can become a GPS.

Faugheen

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Or maybe it was a genuine mistake. This is why so many people avoid this topic. No room for understanding at all.

Or maybe it was a malicious attempt to have a giggle and a laugh at trans people to get other people to ‘thank’.

No room for understanding at all. Poster has had hours to correct their ‘mistake’ and they haven’t. They know what they’re doing and you attempting to play it down is part of the problem.

Sardonicat

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

The matter is settled.

No one has to bat these rather silly outlandish arguments that lead to nothing useful or interesting back and forth anymore. And that is not to offend your good self, it really isn't.

It's the fallacy of infinite regress.

We have done all this. We have HAD every argument. We have moved beyond this as a society now.

It just is. The earth is round ..because IT JUST IS.


There has to be a finite timeline for such arguments. None of us are going to LIVE that long for a start.

The earth is not flat and transwomen are women. I am not going to argue either of those points to infinity and beyond!

I mean ...some people still don't believe the earth is round!

Case closed.

That the earth is round is a fact is verifiable by evidence. That a human who believes themselves to be a horse is just that. A human with an unfortunate false belief. Why should the same human's belief that they are a horse not be accepted as fact based on their belief alone, if that is all it takes to make a false belief a fact?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Part of the issue is ..trans people are attacked a lot. Even in this thread a lot of comments are in bad faith.

Well, that’s a convenient excuse to not engage with people.

ILoveYourVibes

Hhhhh wrote: »

Are these hetero cis men with long hair in pink shirts cross dressers or not?

How do i know? You tell me.

I mean what was David Beckham in that skirt?

Faugheen

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

Well, that’s a convenient excuse to not engage with people.

It’s a perfectly legitimate reason. I’m not going to engage with people who go out of their way to sh*t on trans people because no matter what happens it will be the same nonsense.

Dismiss, deny, deflect, distract.

You have hit two of these already and I know that if I continue to engage you will hit the other two, confirming everything I need to know.

From the Glossary of Terms section of Stonewalls website.

Trans -

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

An oblate spheroid is ..wait for it ..round.

It isn't. A round object is circular or spherical. A spheroid is ellipitical. It's symmetry is circular but it's not round.


https://www.universetoday.com/25893/is-the-earth-round/#:~:text=The%20Earth%20isn't%20flat,the%20Earth%20really%20looks%20round.&text=The%20actual%20shape%20of%20the,rapidly%20rotating%20on%20its%20axis.

https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/earth-is-not-round/

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

How do i know? You tell me.

If they are cross dressers then yes, if they are not cross dressers then no.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

I mean what was David Beckham in that skirt?

Is David Beckham a cross dresser?

From the Hate Crime and Public Order Act Scotland recently enacted

The terms ‘transsexualism’ and ‘transvestitism’ are also widely understood to be outdated
and are therefore also removed from the definition of “transgender identity” included in the
Bill, helping to ensure that the definition is up-to-date. Cross-dressing people are included in
the definition within the Bill to ensure the protection provided by the word ‘transvestitism’ is not lost.
The Bill’s definition of ‘transgender identity’ includes trans men, trans women, non-binary people and cross dressing people.

ILoveYourVibes

isha wrote: »

From the Glossary of Terms section of Stonewalls website.

Trans -

An umbrella term to describe people whose gender is not the same as, or does not sit comfortably with, the sex they were assigned at birth.
Trans people may describe themselves using one or more of a wide variety of terms, including (but not limited to) transgender, transsexual, gender-queer (GQ), gender-fluid, non-binary, gender-variant, crossdresser, genderless, agender, nongender, third gender, bi-gender, trans man, trans woman,trans masculine, trans feminine and neutrois.

It certainly does not say hetero cis men who identify as men and cross dress are trans. It says trans women may identify as cross dressers.

It does not say cross dressers as a rule identity as trans. And what constitutes cross dressing is often vague.

Plain and simple most cross dressers are heteros and cis men who don't identify as trans.

EmmetSpiceland

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

You can only edit a post for a few minutes after making it.

I can still edit posts I made yesterday.

ILoveYourVibes

isha wrote: »

From the Hate Crime and Public Order Act Scotland recently enacted

The terms ‘transsexualism’ and ‘transvestitism’ are also widely understood to be outdated
and are therefore also removed from the definition of “transgender identity” included in the
Bill, helping to ensure that the definition is up-to-date. Cross-dressing people are included in
the definition within the Bill to ensure the protection provided by the word ‘transvestitism’ is not lost.
The Bill’s definition of ‘transgender identity’ includes trans men, trans women, non-binary people and cross dressing people.

That is exactly what i told you.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Leroy42 wrote: »

Wasn't there a male mma fighter than killed another male? And boxing?

Should sports only be played between perfectly matched individuals?

Seems unfair that other sprinters had to race against Bolt when clearly he was faster than them.

Is it fair that taller basketball players are clearly at an advantage? Should we do something about that?

Its perfectly reasonable to have safety concerns, but there are weight classes and levels to deal with that already.

The reality is none of the above are issues, until transgender is involved and then suddenly people are close concerned about fairness.

Your second last paragraph here shows that people very much do care about safety in sport outside of the transgender question. If we extended the weight/height/whatever parameters to including transgender women to female divisions, those athletes would start to dominate and excel due to the many irreversible advantages imbued by male puberty. A female and a male with the same physical dimensions will still have huge physiological differences. The only way they won’t is if the male athlete hasn’t gone through puberty and that’s a whole other can of worms.

ILoveYourVibes

Hhhhh wrote: »

If they are cross dressers then yes, if they are not cross dressers then no.


Is David Beckham a cross dresser?

According to himself at one point yes. He used to wear his wife's undies.

I mean come on you don't have to go far online to find a self proclaimed hetero male who is an open cross dresser who doesn't consider themselves trans.

https://usustatesman.com/opinion-most-crossdressers-are-heterosexual/

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

It certainly does not say hetero cis men who identify as men and cross dress are trans. It says trans women may identify as cross dressers.

It does not say cross dressers as a rule identity as trans. And what constitutes cross dressing is often vague.

Plain and simple most cross dressers are heteros and cis men who don't identify as trans.

But a hetero cis male can identify as trans if they cross dress.