Caitlyn Jenner's statement on trans girls in girls' sports (MOD NOTE IN OP)

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

According to himself at one point yes. He used to wear his wife's undies.

Does that make someone a cross dresser, and why?

ILoveYourVibes

Hhhhh wrote: »

Does that make someone a cross dresser, and why?

What makes someone a cross dresser then?

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

What makes someone a cross dresser then?

I asked you a question and you haven't answered it...again. Can you answer mine first please then I will answer yours.

ILoveYourVibes

Hhhhh wrote: »

I asked you a question and you haven't answered it...again. Can you answer mine first please then I will answer yours.

Ok i'll bite yes it does. Am I following your script ....??? .

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

You can only edit a post for a few minutes after making it.

You have 2 days to edit a post.


You only have a few minutes to edit a post without it showing that you edited it.

KeepItLight

Hhhhh wrote: »

I asked you a question and you haven't answered it...again. Can you answer mine first please then I will answer yours.

Don't even bother wasting your time.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Ok i'll bite yes it does. Am I following your script ....??? .

Ok so surely you must agree he can identify as trans then. As he is a cross dresser and as such falls under the spectrum of trans. If you don't it would suggest you are a transphobe.

Deleted User

Deleted User wrote: »

You have 2 days to edit a post.


You only have a few minutes to edit a post without it showing that you edited it.

Have you a link to the study you mentioned earlier?

ILoveYourVibes

Hhhhh wrote: »

Ok so surely you must agree he can identify as trans then. As he is a cross dresser and as such falls under the spectrum of trans. If you don't it would suggest you are a transphobe.

Maybe we are all trans!

Is harry styles trans??

https://www.theguardian.com/music/2019/dec/14/harry-styles-sexual-ambiguity-dating-normals-rocking-a-dress

Harry calls it playful cross dressing ..says he does it because it looks cool ...he says he is not gay not bi and not trans. His own claims.

By the way ..beckham has insisted he is NOT trans. emphatically so. And harry styles has insisted he is not gay nor bi.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Maybe we are all trans!

Maybe, but not all transphobes.

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Is harry styles trans??

By the way ..beckham has insisted he is NOT trans. emphatically so. And harry styles has insisted he is not gay nor bi.

You don't have to be gay or bi to be trans. I don't know, is harry styles a cross dresser?

ILoveYourVibes

And there are prob trans women who can't be bothered to be super feminine all the time and wear make up etc. I mean women wear men's clothes all the time.

ILoveYourVibes

Hhhhh wrote: »

Maybe, but not all transphobes.


You don't have to be gay or bi to be trans. I don't know, is harry styles a cross dresser?

According to himself yes. But then according to himself ...he isn't trans ...and we know from you ..this cannot be true ..one must be trans if one is a cross dresser. For some reason.

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Leroy42 wrote: »

They haven't chosen to be anything. But even if they did, should people be excluded because they are different?

Should 7foot tall men be excluded from basketball because they are different? No, of course no one would even dream of that.

But its fine to draw imaginary lines for trans?

If that 7’0” basketball player transitioned to being a woman, be honest, Leroy. Would you think it fine for that player to join a women’s basketball team? It’s not outside the realms of possibility for this to happen. Caitlyn Jenner was an elite athlete after all.

ILoveYourVibes

Im so confused.

ILoveYourVibes

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

If that 7’0” basketball player transitioned to being a woman, be honest, Leroy. Would you think it fine for that player to join a women’s basketball team? It’s not outside the realms of possibility for this to happen. Caitlyn Jenner was an elite athlete after all.

Its like people are on transwatch or something! Just like on the look out! Just chill.

Ten of Swords

Thread has generated an astronomical number of reported posts and is being reviewed now

Read the mod note that has been added to the op and keep the posts civil or the thread will be closed for the duration of this review

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts wrote: »

If that 7’0” basketball player transitioned to being a woman, be honest, Leroy. Would you think it fine for that player to join a women’s basketball team? It’s not outside the realms of possibility for this to happen. Caitlyn Jenner was an elite athlete after all.

In the case of Gabrielle one's opinion might be influenced depending on whether they were on your basketball team or the opponent's team

BorneTobyWilde

There are lots of very petite trans girls. Who are slimmer and smaller than a lot of girls, so it's a difficult one. I think weight and muscle mass need to come into it.
A heavyweight boxer doesn't compete against a feather weight. Same logic needs to apply, but only in some sports....

Hhhhh

Hhhhh wrote: »

Have you a link to the study you mentioned earlier?

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm

The abstract - https://www.ese-hormones.org/media/1506/transgender-brains-are-more-like-their-desired-gender-from-an-early-age.pdf

Vestiapx

A poster stated earlier that anyone who thinks Williams is on Peds is a "insert insult here"
Personally I believe that there are a huge number of professional sports people on Peds and as some of those would be female or of a different race to me I thinks it's inaccurate to suggest that my belief is the result of bias.

Anyway my question and my opinion is this;
Why do/did we split the genders ?
It is my belief that in prisons, as mentioned earlier, the genders are split for safety but if prisons were run correctly then safety wouldn't be an issue and we could have mixed prisons. So the question is can we put trans people in the prison of their choice and maintain safety and I believe the answer is yes. Trans women should go in women's prisons and trans men should go in women's prisons if they want as they would probably be safer. I would just ask that all the men that need safety as well also get the treatment they deserve as I'm working here in the assumption that men's prisons could be more dangerous.

In sport we split the genders because traditionally it was seen as fairer and there have b een a couple of vocal posters having a tet a tate about sporting prowess and average man v average woman. Rythmic gymnastics was then pulled out and while it's interesting to discuss it it is an irrelevance to the logic of seperaring the genders as male and female rythmic gymnastics is a differing disapline and so should be ignored. In the vast vast majority of sports a given person who was born and went through puberty as a male will beat a given person who was born and went through puberty as a female if of course weight age and experiance are roughly equivalent.

Transitioning after puberty is too late and the advantages have been developed and this is science. The same is true with ped users. If a athlete goes through a set of drug cycles that in combination with diet and exercises change their physical ability this will not be taken away from them when they stop the Peds and while they will no longer test positive the benefits will remain.

Before puberty it's fine to have males and females compete but once it kicks in the differences will become apparent.

This is why we divide the genders in sport. Now if I was a trans pre pubescent child would I be better off not going through puberty? Well yes I probably would but this is a complex issue. I simply don't have enough experiance or information to be able to make an opinion on the issue . If Caitlin Jenner could go back in time and ask not to go through puberty then I say yeah that's ok because she ends up a happy woman so male puberty will be wrong for her but without understanding the consequences it's a huge decision.

It's a bit like abortion, I hate abortion I hate the idea of it the need for it and the use of it as a political tool but should it be available ? Of course it should.

Tldr

Trans women that have gone through male puberty will be given the same advantages that Cis women who used Peds for years get. Both will have inherent advantages and a decision should be made whether using Peds is a lifetime band and if so male puberty shod be a Lifetime ban in felame sports. Otherwise make puberty should only be say a 2 year ban.

Ps

I wonder why we have best male and best female in the Oscars tho , seems kinda lame .

jackboy

BorneTobyWilde wrote: »

There are lots of very petite trans girls. Who are slimmer and smaller than a lot of girls, so it's a difficult one. I think weight and muscle mass need to come into it.
A heavyweight boxer doesn't compete against a feather weight. Same logic needs to apply, but only in some sports....

Doesn’t work. In the vast majority of cases of men and women of the same weight, the man is significantly stronger than the women. The only simple, clear, enforceable, fair way to distinguish is by using biological sex.

ILoveYourVibes

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

According to himself yes. But then according to himself ...he isn't trans ...and we know from you ..this cannot be true ..one must be trans if one is a cross dresser. For some reason.

No one can be heterosexual and still trans if they are a cross dresser.

[Deleted User]

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2018/05/180524112351.htm

The abstract - https://www.ese-hormones.org/media/1506/transgender-brains-are-more-like-their-desired-gender-from-an-early-age.pdf

Thankyou. I'll give it a read later.

https://twitter.com/DebbieHayton/status/1388765390709342210?s=20

Sudden Valley

I agree with her statement regarding Trans in sports but can't help but believe she is very naïve or even dishonest running as as a Republican- a party for the last few years has done everything in their power to limit Trans rights. A bit like the Cheney family being republican even though they had a lesbian daughter and the Republicans are still very much into limiting homosexual rights.
It feels like she is compromising her values to get elected.

hbhook

Be fair, you can't have a Giant Haystacks type man transition to a woman and think he should be allowed on a female football team. I'm guessing even trans people agree with the inequality there that they themselves are seeking in life in general. Is an average sized woman gonna be competive playing on a men's rugby team?

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

ILoveYourVibes wrote: »

Its like people are on transwatch or something! Just like on the look out! Just chill.

It's a straightforward question.

EddieN75

Sudden Valley wrote: »

I agree with her statement regarding Trans in sports but can't help but believe she is very naïve or even dishonest running as as a Republican- a party for the last few years has done everything in their power to limit Trans rights. A bit like the Cheney family being republican even though they had a lesbian daughter and the Republicans are still very much into limiting homosexual rights.
It feels like she is compromising her values to get elected.

You are watching too much CNN. Individuals have all sorts of views and opinions

Obvious Desperate Breakfasts

Leroy42 wrote: »

So a girl is based on genitalia at birth for you? Thats it? Should they be allowed to compete in male sports?

Lot of men's sports divisions are open divisions. Curiously, women tend not to get far in them. Curiouser and curiouser.

Ten of Swords

I have read the entire thread (thanks for that) - it contains pages upon pages of the usual bad faith, dogwhistling, and genuine transphobia that gets thrown about every time a topic on trans or gender comes up in this forum.

There is very little actual on topic posting going on. Of the 350+ posts in the thread there's a very small percentage actually discussing Caitlin Jenner or sport

We had previously set up a catch all thread for gender identity topics in CA, this qualifies (and 90% of the posts in this thread have been discussed at length in that one). For this reason this topic can be discussed in the Gender Identity thread

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2058132572