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Caitlyn Jenner's statement on trans girls in girls' sports (MOD NOTE IN OP)

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12357…12

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    #122
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Annasopra wrote: »
    The idea that trans people choose to be trans is complete and utter nonsense.

    It is not. Go to Stonewalls site. Look for the definition of transgender. It includes cross dressing as being transgender. So does a recent law passed by the Scottish govt re hate crimes. It clearly defines transgenderism as including cross dressing.
    This is a chosen activity by heterosexual men. It is not something innate that one is born with. At a maximum about 0.5% of people are transgender under the usual u derstanding. 3 to 10% of men enjoy cross dressing. Going by Stonewalls definition and recent legislation passed in Scotland a significant majority of what is considered in modern times to be transgender expression is a chosen activity.
    As I said there are differences.


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    #123
    Leroy42
    Registered Users Posts: 15,662 ✭✭✭✭Leroy42


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    It should not be allowed in any sport.

    They should have their own bracket/category in which they compete and that should be that.

    Then you have your level playing field.

    Agree. And they do (its age based atm which is a poor criteria but the most straightforward)

    The issue is not the division, but the criteria. So far its been a blanket "keep them out" rather than looking at what constitutes and unfair advantage.


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    #124
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Why? Being trans doesn’t give superpowers.

    Michael Johnson Bolt, Jordan, Federer, Woods. There are plenty of examples of sports being dominated by individuals obviously blessed with special talents and the perfect physical attributes.

    Should they have been excluded since they clearly have an inherent advantage?

    What is the deciding factor?

    Missed the most obvious one in Michael Phelps who actually had freakishly perfect physical advantages. Tall frame, larger wingspan, webbed feet, lack of lactic acid. Complete physical freak.


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    #125
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Presumably this extends to banning all women from any mens sports?


    that is only equestrian and sailing.


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    #126
    jackboy
    Registered Users Posts: 4,598 ✭✭✭jackboy


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Why? Being trans doesn’t give superpowers.

    Michael Johnson Bolt, Jordan, Federer, Woods. There are plenty of examples of sports being dominated by individuals obviously blessed with special talents and the perfect physical attributes.

    Should they have been excluded since they clearly have an inherent advantage?

    What is the deciding factor?

    In these sports there are different grades so yes they are excluded from competing against most of the lesser athletes.


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    #127
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Trans people are not coming for your way of life, you can relax.

    More of this nonsense. Another attempt to discredit. Did I say they were?


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    #128
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Faugheen wrote: »
    Ah the usual mental gymnastics.

    People call out the vile **** about trans people in this thread, then others respond in completely bad faith ‘so you think they should compete in women’s sport?’ etc completely pretending that it’s what people are calling out.

    Usual angry men with nothing better to do either. Get a life, folks.

    Gives out about discrimination against one group, whilst discriminating another. This is why no ones takes you people seriously. It's funny too, considering the last thread on this topic had many female posters involved.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #129
    Brian?
    Moderators, Recreation & Hobbies Moderators Posts: 21,420 Mod ✭✭✭✭Brian?


    WhomadeGod wrote: »
    Let's see the cancel culture identity politics brigade try to cancel the most famous transgender on the pnaet from the most famous family on the planet.

    I look forward to it.

    I have some shocking new for you. Neither cancel culture nor the identity politics brigade exist.

    They're a bogeyman sold to the simpleminded who fear change

    they/them/theirs


    And so on, and so on …. - Slavoj Žižek




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    #130
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    isha wrote: »
    It includes cross dressing as being transgender. .

    This is a chosen activity by heterosexual men.

    You are getting really confused.

    Either they are heteorsexual men or they are trans ..they can't be both.


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    #131
    EddieN75
    Closed Accounts Posts: 467 ✭✭EddieN75


    Brian? wrote: »
    I have some shocking new for you. Neither cancel culture nor the identity politics brigade exist.

    They're a bogeyman sold to the simpleminded who fear change

    Change as in being cancelled?

    Cancel culture is alive and well my friend. It's a virus


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    #132
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    that is only equestrian and sailing.

    Darts has a high profile woman in it at the minute.

    Women arent banned from mens football. If a woman was good enough to play in the PL , a team could sign her.


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    #133
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Guy:Incognito wrote: »
    Well, the bit in the post youre quoting for a start............

    I give up. Like talking to a wall.


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    #134
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    Gives out about discrimination against one group, whilst discriminating another. This is why no ones takes you people seriously. It's funny too, considering the last thread on this topic had many female posters involved.
    This is exactly what YOU are doing ...that is if you are truly defending travellers.


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    #135
    Louis Friend
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 590 ✭✭✭Louis Friend


    This trans agenda, like every example of wokeism, is pushing things too far.

    At one extreme, you have trans people being put into concentration camps and executed or experimented on. Then at the other you have trans people denying women gold medals in the Olympics.

    Neither approach is right. Society should be aiming for somewhere in between.


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    #136
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I give up. Like talking to a wall.
    A stonewall?? ! I HAD TO!:P


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    #137
    Guy:Incognito
    Registered Users Posts: 38,247 ✭✭✭✭Guy:Incognito


    Deleted User wrote: »
    More of this nonsense. Another attempt to discredit. Did I say they were?

    Yeah, sorry, its all of society you think it will damage..........
    Deleted User wrote: »

    . along with a range of damaging issues for society in general


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    #138
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    Its not common ...therefore its rare ...

    But not extreme, like you suggested.


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    #139
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users Posts: 4,362 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Hardly. I've been going to gay bars and events for close to 30 years. I'm also aware of the history of it all..

    I'm also aware of how "fashionable" it's become in the last few decades, and how much the lines have blurred as to what Transgendered used to mean, and the wide range it covers today.

    Its an odd one given you're gay that you seem to be espousing the same kind of rhetoric that would be used by homohobic people. I can't imagine any lad is dressing up as a woman and calling himself Susan for the craic or because its fashionable. No more than id believe any lad would be having sex with another lad because "it's just a phase".

    I guess what it shows us is anyone can be prejudiced even those that have faced it. Its why I cringe when I hear black people claim they can't be racist because they're black :pac:


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    #140
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It's fairly open and shut no matter what nonsense the woke brigade will spout.

    Males are athletically stronger overall and it would be unfair to allow someone who is a biological male to compete in female events.


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    #141
    Akrasia
    Registered Users Posts: 22,427 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Why? Being trans doesn’t give superpowers.

    Michael Johnson Bolt, Jordan, Federer, Woods. There are plenty of examples of sports being dominated by individuals obviously blessed with special talents and the perfect physical attributes.

    Should they have been excluded since they clearly have an inherent advantage?

    What is the deciding factor?

    The deciding factor is biological sex hormones and puberty


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    #142
    TomTomTim
    Registered Users Posts: 2,841 ✭✭✭TomTomTim


    Brian? wrote: »
    I have some shocking new for you. Neither cancel culture nor the identity politics brigade exist.

    They're a bogeyman sold to the simpleminded who fear change

    This is beyond delusional. Identity politics is explicit, you can see it in nearly every social justice movement, you can see it in legalization. Trying to deny that it's real is like trying to deny that humans need air to breath.

    “The man who lies to himself can be more easily offended than anyone else. You know it is sometimes very pleasant to take offense, isn't it? A man may know that nobody has insulted him, but that he has invented the insult for himself, has lied and exaggerated to make it picturesque, has caught at a word and made a mountain out of a molehill--he knows that himself, yet he will be the first to take offense, and will revel in his resentment till he feels great pleasure in it.”- ― Fyodor Dostoevsky, The Brothers Karamazov




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    #143
    ceadaoin.
    Registered Users Posts: 8,303 ✭✭✭ceadaoin.


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Why? Being trans doesn’t give superpowers.

    Michael Johnson Bolt, Jordan, Federer, Woods. There are plenty of examples of sports being dominated by individuals obviously blessed with special talents and the perfect physical attributes.

    Should they have been excluded since they clearly have an inherent advantage?

    What is the deciding factor?

    They are males so therefore they should be excluded from women's sports. And they were. The deciding factor is that they are males and not females. And as a result, female athletes, tennis players, basketball players and golfers were able to thrive and compete on a level playing field. Job done. Why is this even a question?


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    #144
    Eoinbmw
    Registered Users Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Wasn't there a male mma fighter than killed another male? And boxing?

    Should sports only be played between perfectly matched individuals?

    Seems unfair that other sprinters had to race against Bolt when clearly he was faster than them.

    Is it fair that taller basketball players are clearly at an advantage? Should we do something about that?

    Its perfectly reasonable to have safety concerns, but there are weight classes and levels to deal with that already.

    The reality is none of the above are issues, until transgender is involved and then suddenly people are close concerned about fairness.
    Well lets allow steroids and all other performance enhancing drugs in professional sport so!
    Give the Genetically born ladies some chance of a fair playing field!


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    #145
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Louis Friend wrote: »
    This trans agenda, like every example of wokeism, is pushing things too far.

    At one extreme, you have trans people being put into concentration camps and executed or experimented on. Then at the other you have trans people denying women gold medals in the Olympics.

    Neither approach is right. Society should be aiming for somewhere in between.
    I feel uneasy about you suggestion that the polar opposite extreme of trans people in concentration camps is trans people getting medals.

    Its not ...the opposite extreme might be cis gendered people in concentration camps.Which i am just not down for as a cis gendered girlie.

    Trans people getting medals ..seems rather in between to me in comparison.

    If you want to draw a line of polarity in between two points with ONE point so so far in one direction ...you are not going to end up in the middle.

    Quite plainly ..the discomfort we might feel by allowing trans people SAFELY to compete in sport ....is not to be compared with the pain and discomfort people in concentration camps might feel.

    These things you suggest are either end of the extreme are really not. One is not that extreme and one is.


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    #146
    Celticfire
    Registered Users Posts: 1,706 ✭✭✭Celticfire


    Leroy42 wrote: »
    Should my son have to play with boys his age who are clearly more physically developed?

    It isn't an issue of whether there should be a division, its what that criteria is.


    What criteria did you use to assign the descriptor "Son" over "Daughter".


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    #147
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Eoinbmw wrote: »
    Well lets allow steroids and all other performance enhancing drugs in professional sport so!
    Give the Genetically born ladies some chance of a fair playing field!
    That already happens tbh. We are naive if we think otherwise. But that is besides the point.


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    #148
    Faugheen
    Site Banned Posts: 12,341 ✭✭✭✭Faugheen


    TomTomTim wrote: »
    Gives out about discrimination against one group, whilst discriminating another. This is why no ones takes you people seriously. It's funny too, considering the last thread on this topic had many female posters involved.

    Again, ‘this topic’ when I’m talking about the crap posted about trans people. ‘Not believing in it’ ‘he/she’ etc.

    Sorry I offended your precious self when the above is written in front of you and is being written by bitter, angry men who are trying to whip up a frenzy.

    If you can’t see that or you can’t acknowledge that then you’re out of your depth here.


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    #149
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    Hhhhh wrote: »
    But not extreme, like you suggested.
    But other instances suggested in this thread like criminals in prison ..is

    Very few trans people are criminals. They are extreme cases.


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    #150
    Eoinbmw
    Registered Users Posts: 1,809 ✭✭✭Eoinbmw


    ILoveYourVibes wrote: »
    That already happens tbh. We are naive if we think otherwise. But that is besides the point.
    Of course it does but just throw testing out the window who needs rules!


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    #151
    ILoveYourVibes
    Registered Users Posts: 15,182 ✭✭✭✭ILoveYourVibes


    ThewhiteJesus wrote: »
    A trans girl Is not a girl and never will be I don’t see the issue of course they can’t compete in girl only sports but there is many unisex sports or they can compete in men’s dressed as women which could be funny
    At least you are honest.


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