Investment Firms Buying Estates

mrslancaster

JimmyVik wrote: »

Wont be too long until a single person on €75k cant afford a 1 bed apartment. Maybe a co-living space.
But even if they earn enough that person on €50k is bidding against couples on €100k. They are not going to win.

and that's even if there are any new apartments for sale. Looks like everything now is build-to-rent. It's a shambles.

Supercell

I live down the road from the new Cherrywood Business Park development. Lots and lots of apartments going up, all to be rentals, how on earth is a place like that ever going to develop its own character?
I fear that its going to be soulless and windswept, a bit like how Sandyford industrial estate feels like right now IMO.

Dav010

Supercell wrote: »

I live down the road from the new Cherrywood Business Park development. Lots and lots of apartments going up, all to be rentals, how on earth is a place like that ever going to develop its own character?
I fear that its going to be soulless and windswept, a bit like how Sandyford industrial estate feels like right now IMO.

The complaint has now swung to there are too many rental properties.

Mic 1972

Supercell wrote: »

I live down the road from the new Cherrywood Business Park development. Lots and lots of apartments going up, all to be rentals, how on earth is a place like that ever going to develop its own character?
I fear that its going to be soulless and windswept, a bit like how Sandyford industrial estate feels like right now IMO.

2 of the worst estates i can think of
Sandyford looks like a never ending building site, with that abandoned tall tower in the middle that will never be finished
Cherrywood has been under construction for the last 15 years

Supercell

Dav010 wrote: »

The complaint has now swung to there are too many rental properties.

Needs a mixture of both, not all one or the other. There are some private semis and detached going up there but they will be exorbitantly priced and far far outnumbered by the purely rented apartments.

JimmyVik

Mic 1972 wrote: »

a couple on 100K will bid on a bigger more expensive house as opposite to a single person bidding on a less expensive 1 bed

Possibly if they earn enough to bid on a more expensive house. But that house is getting further and further away on them as they wait. Soon that apartment will be all they can afford.

maestroamado

https://www.independent.ie/business/commercial-property/johnny-ronans-planned-40-plus-storey-tower-in-dublin-docklands-refused-permission-40

40 floors seems a bit high for Dublin but....

For me this is the type of development these Cuckoo Funds should be allowed invest and let the market dictate the value.
I would have no issue as these developments within walking distance of Dublin city Centre.

A family member is selling a house at the moment 25km driving from Dub city Centre and the high bidder is Vulture fund.

lawrencesummers

The knock on effect of young people being unable to buy their own place is Emigration.


Imagine forcing people to emigrate because they can’t find security of property here.

Flinty997

lawrencesummers wrote: »

The knock on effect of young people being unable to buy their own place is Emigration.

Imagine forcing people to emigrate because they can’t find security of property here.

Imagine...

https://www.irishtimes.com/business/economy/migration-has-been-a-brain-gain-for-ireland-in-recent-decades-1.4401340

zerosugarbuzz

The Student wrote: »

Income of 71k between a couple is not overly high. If we look at this further and the overall situation and try bring this back on topic.

The CBI rules are a crude method of 3.5 times (4.5 times as an exemption) your income which takes little or no consideration of the length of the mortgage.

A mortgage repayment of €800 per month on a €250k is affordable on the €71k joint income. Even if you had a single income of €45k this is still affordable.

So what we have was the introduction of the CBI rules without the corresponding increase in supply. We then have developers who can't access funds for building in the traditional manner from the banks. So they will access funds where they can ie the investment funds/cuckoo funds whatever term you want to use.

These funds will invest where they get the best return thats what business do ie its the property market (market being the key word). Now the Govt have introduced the legislation that up to 50% of new developments need to be either social and for first time buyers. What do you think is going to happen? The price of those not included in the 50% (or whatever fig) social and affordable will increase in price to subsidise the social and affordable housing houses.

If we extend the above CBI rules for the new builds whats going to happen? Developers will either build smaller houses or will have lower spec or wont build at all (as it may not be economical to do so). So now we have discouraged the market (again market being the key word).

We all know the only way we are going to get out of this situation is to increase supply. If you make the environment so bad all you will do is scare off those needed to actually increase supply.

My take on this is either (a) encourage/force the banks to loan to developers. (b) change the CBI mortgage rules to remove the crude 3.5 times wage to take account of the mortgage term. (c) leave the property market to run exactly as it is a market. (d) if the State needs to house people then let the State build on its own land and set the sale price/rent levels itself of its own properties.

Business people are by their nature used to facing challenges and adapting to the business environment. if the State tries to control the property market (not the property sector) the participants will find ways to react.

Also some people need to realise they will never own the house they want. This is part of a realisation that people either can't or are unwilling to accept.

What is your own personal position with regard to property? Do you own a house, or a few investment properties. You seem to be able to tell everyone else what they should be able to accept but give no indication as to your personal situation.

Dav010

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

What is your own personal position with regard to property? Do you own a house, or a few investment properties. You seem to be able to tell everyone else what they should be able to accept but give no indication as to your personal situation.

Should opinions on the property market be restricted to only those trying to buy?

The Student

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

What is your own personal position with regard to property? Do you own a house, or a few investment properties. You seem to be able to tell everyone else what they should be able to accept but give no indication as to your personal situation.

Not sure it's relevant but I will answer your questions. I have two mortgages one on my ppr and one on a rented house (purpose is to be my pension).

Left school at 16 with pass leaving cert. Working ever since. Since leaving school went to college part time while working full time. Obtained a degree, then a masters and then a professional qualification. All paid for by myself. Idea being able to support myself both now and when I retire and not to rely on the State.

I am one of the squeezed middle who is tired of high income taxes and people constantly complaining they can't afford to live where they want. Well guess what not many can me included.

So spare me the comments of "I think I can tell people what to do". I can offer my opinion because I have lived and worked through three recessions. I have seen the lean times but I got on with it.

I have bettered myself to achieve where I am through hard graft and sacrifice. Am I were I want to be? No. But I am a realist.

Now that I have answered your questions perhaps you would be so good to answer the same questions so we can judge the quality of your opinions.

zerosugarbuzz

Dav010 wrote: »

Should opinions on the property market be restricted to only those trying to buy?

No everyone is clearly entitled to an opinion. I would be interested to know what that posters position is, is all!

lawrencesummers

The other side of this is that some people who bought during the height of boom are only now seeing their houses return to the value that they paid.

The last 6 months has done more for the price of housing than the last 6 years in terms of reducing people negative equity. So will buyers are unhappy with rising costs owners are happy with rising values.

zerosugarbuzz

The Student wrote: »

Not sure it's relevant but I will answer your questions. I have two mortgages one on my ppr and one on a rented house (purpose is to be my pension).

Left school at 16 with pass leaving cert. Working ever since. Since leaving school went to college part time while working full time. Obtained a degree, then a masters and then a professional qualification. All paid for by myself. Idea being able to support myself both now and when I retire and not to rely on the State.

I am one of the squeezed middle who is tired of high income taxes and people constantly complaining they can't afford to live where they want. Well guess what not many can me included.

So spare me the comments of "I think I can tell people what to do". I can offer my opinion because I have lived and worked through three recessions. I have seen the lean times but I got on with it.

I have bettered myself to achieve where I am through hard graft and sacrifice. Am I were I want to be? No. But I am a realist.

Now that I have answered your questions perhaps you would be so good to answer the same questions so we can judge the quality of your opinions.

In a similar position to you actually, but I wasn't an early school leaver. Unlike you I fully appreciate that it was so much easier to raise a deposit then and also to get a mortgage as very young first time buyers. Our first house cost 39k, we only had to save 5k for deposit and legal fees etc. that took us a little over a year. It had a new kitchen and was insulated, with central heating. We were much better off then regarding housing whether you face it or not. Rental properties were in plentiful supply too before we actually bought. No one coming from where you came from will be in your position when they are your age. Whereas it was relatively easy to achieve with a bit of hard work back in the day.

The Student

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

In a similar position to you actually, but I wasn't an early school leaver. Unlike you I fully appreciate that it was so much easier to raise a deposit then and also to get a mortgage as very young first time buyers. Our first house cost 39k, we only had to save 5k for deposit and legal fees etc. that took us a little over a year. It had a new kitchen and was insulated, with central heating. We were much better off then regarding housing whether you face it or not. Rental properties were in plentiful supply too before we actually bought. No one coming from where you came from will be in your position when they are your age. Whereas it was relatively easy to achieve with a bit of hard work back in the day.

It is still not overly difficult to raise a deposit of €50k if people really wanted to. I see those in their 20's wanting to go on expensive holidays, latest phones, cars and designers clothes etc.

Then when they decide they want to get a house they have no savings for a deposit. A bit of foresight and they could have the majority of both. But some younger people are only interested in living for today without making any plans for their future.

zerosugarbuzz

The Student wrote: »

It is still not overly difficult to raise a deposit of €50k if people really wanted to. I see those in their 20's wanting to go on expensive holidays, latest phones, cars and designers clothes etc.

Then when they decide they want to get a house they have no savings for a deposit. A bit of foresight and they could have the majority of both. But some younger people are only interested in living for today without making any plans for their future.

Have to agree to disagree, I've some living for today to get on with myself.

The Student

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Have to agree to disagree, I've some living for today to get on with myself.

Average saving of €100 a week for 5 yrs equals €26k x 2 (for a couple equals €52k).

Finish college at 22 have deposit saved at 27. Joint income of €70k (€35k each) when applying for mortgage will get mortgage of €250k. Repayments are circa €800 a month over 30 yrs.

All in all above is achievable.

stampydmonkey

The Student wrote: »

Average saving of €100 a week for 5 yrs equals €26k x 2 (for a couple equals €52k).

Finish college at 22 have deposit saved at 27. Joint income of €70k (€35k each) when applying for mortgage will get mortgage of €250k. Repayments are circa €800 a month over 30 yrs.

All in all above is achievable.

How many people are coupled up for life at 22!?!

The Student

stampydmonkey wrote: »

How many people are coupled up for life at 22!?!

If each person does it independently then when they meet their partner they have already saved their share of a deposit.

Dav010

The Student wrote: »

If each person does it independently then when they meet their partner they have already saved their share of a deposit.

Whilst in some part I do agree with the jist of your opinion, I really don’t think it is reasonable to expect a 22 yr old to be focused on saving for a home. At that age most of us were more concerned about enjoying life, travelling, dating etc. Many new graduates have loans to be paid off and expenses that need to be paid for the first time.

I do agree with you that as you get older your priorities shift and you can’t have the things you want/need without foregoing some things you like. I have kids that are older and younger than 22, my advice to them all in their early 20’s is to enjoy life before you have commitments, including mortgages.

Where I do agree with you though, and what I also tell my kids is that society owes you nothing. I think this opinion that you should be able to buy a house when you want is BS.

stampydmonkey

The Student wrote: »

If each person does it independently then when they meet their partner they have already saved their share of a deposit.

Fair point. And yeah, if I knew at 22 what I know now, I'd have definitely put more aside. Unfortunately I was more interested in night clubs and buckfast... in terms of property I wish my parents had sat me down and said this is how sh#t works. I had savings, a nice bit, but went down the drain when let go in 2011. Took a while to get back up and running so not always plain sailing no matter how good your plan is

The Student

Dav010 wrote: »

Whilst in some part I do agree with the jist of your opinion, I really don’t think it is reasonable to expect a 22 yr old to be focused on saving for a home. At that age most of us were more concerned about enjoying life, travelling, dating etc. Many new graduates have loans to be paid off and expenses that need to be paid for the first time.

I do agree with you that as you get older your priorities shift and you can’t have the things you want/need without foregoing some things you like. I have kids that are older and younger than 22, my advice to them all in their early 20’s is to enjoy life before you have commitments, including mortgages.

Where I do agree with you though, and what I also tell my kids is that society owes you nothing. I think this opinion that you should be able to buy a house when you want is BS.

The fig I quoted was an average weekly fig. It could easily be €200 a week in yr 5 and nothing in year 1.

The point is that having a balanced approach to saving less in your early 20's and more as you get older then saving for a deposit is not as unachievable as so many posters suggest.

The example I gave could easily be 24 to 29. The premise remains the same.

Dav010

The Student wrote: »

The fig I quoted was an average weekly fig. It could easily be €200 a week in yr 5 and nothing in year 1.

The point is that having a balanced approach to saving less in your early 20's and more as you get older then saving for a deposit is not as unachievable as so many posters suggest.

The example I gave could easily be 24 to 29. The premise remains the same.

It’s not unachievable, but it’s like saying to a new graduate, start putting money into a pension straight away. It might be prudent, but that does not mean they see it as high on their list of priorities at that stage of their life.

The Student

Dav010 wrote: »

It’s not unachievable, but it’s like saying to a new graduate, start putting money into a pension straight away. It might be prudent, but that does not mean they see it as high on their list of priorities at that stage of their life.

That's fair enough once people accept the consequences of their decisions and don't expect those who did sacrifice to be made pay for their choices.

Which is what some posters in this forum want to happen.

lawrencesummers

The Student wrote: »

Average saving of €100 a week for 5 yrs equals €26k x 2 (for a couple equals €52k).

Finish college at 22 have deposit saved at 27. Joint income of €70k (€35k each) when applying for mortgage will get mortgage of €250k. Repayments are circa €800 a month over 30 yrs.

All in all above is achievable.

And where does paying rent come into any of this?

The Student

lawrencesummers wrote: »

And where does paying rent come into any of this?

If you can't afford to pay rent stay at home until you have your deposit saved.

You can't expect to have it both ways.

Dav010

The Student wrote: »

If you can't afford to pay rent stay at home until you have your deposit saved.

You can't expect to have it both ways.

This is not always possible, nor desirable for those who work. I also suspect many parents don’t want their grown up children in their home. Some of mine moved back over the past year during lockdown, and my wife and I enjoyed it, but it’s time for them to leave.

Ace2007

Dav010 wrote: »

This is not always possible, nor desirable for those who work. I also suspect many parents don’t want their grown up children in their home. Some of mine moved back over the past year during lockdown, and my wife and I enjoyed it, but it’s time for them to leave.

So whats the solution? Expect free hand out's from the government? Why should anyone scrape and save then if that's the solution?

The Student

Dav010 wrote: »

This is not always possible, nor desirable for those who work. I also suspect many parents don’t want their grown up children in their home. Some of mine moved back over the past year during lockdown, and my wife and I enjoyed it, but it’s time for them to leave.

Fair enough but the point of my response to the other poster was you have to deal the cards dealt to you.

For the majority of people they wouldn't have needed to return to parents if they had their own property. Banks have given forbearance on mortgage repayments during the pandemic, landlords have been unable to raise rents or evict tenants etc.

The last yr has been a once in a century event (hopefully) but the points I raised in my previous posts are still valid.