Investment Firms Buying Estates

The Student

snow_bunny wrote: »

Lol, "quit your whinging pov, pull yourself up by the bootstraps and you can be just like me!"

Most of these anecdotal personal tales of sacrifice and compromise completely fail to acknowledge that it's mostly luck and timing in life that makes the difference. I know plenty of hard working, top 10% salaried, heavy saving, non avocado toast eating couples who've been priced out of Dublin. If they'd been in the same position 6 years ago they'd have a home bought no bother.

Then if you add corrupt government policy, REITS and councils that we currently have in the bidding mix...

I'm in disbelief at the attitudes blaming young people for the failings of our government and society. It's almost trolling at this stage.

With respect its not luck and timing. Its hard work and sacrifice. I am a child of the early 70's and I have lived and worked through three recessions.

Life is about choices and the consequences of those choices. I know plenty of twenty somethings who have either bought or are in the process of saving a deposit. They have been priced out of the parts of Dublin they grew up in.

I also know plenty of my fellow workers who's children again twenty somethings who have travelled to Australia, Canada etc. Who then complain they can't afford to purchase a property.

This is nothing new there is limited land in Dublin you either build up and have no garden or you buy with a garden and pay for it. Everybody who wants to buy in a particular area and wants the three bed semi with a garden can't.

We don't have the land its as simple as that.

snow_bunny

Dav010 wrote: »

Why don't they buy outside Dublin?

Its not social blaming, you want the State to help you buy a house where you want. Tough, you make your own luck.

So you think the solution to an extremely serious housing crisis is to have everyone move to Leitrim is it? Hospital doctors, nurses, guards, teachers, VPs of legal, bar managers, etc. You realise not everyone can WFH and some people work shifts right? You don't think it would be easier and better to just, I dunno, build more housing, limit REITs, stop leasing 600k flats in Dundrum for social housing? Pull the other one.

snow_bunny

The Student wrote: »

With respect its not luck and timing. Its hard work and sacrifice. I am a child of the early 70's and I have lived and worked through three recessions.

Life is about choices and the consequences of those choices. I know plenty of twenty somethings who have either bought or are in the process of saving a deposit. They have been priced out of the parts of Dublin they grew up in.

I also know plenty of my fellow workers who's children again twenty somethings who have travelled to Australia, Canada etc. Who then complain they can't afford to purchase a property.

This is nothing new there is limited land in Dublin you either build up and have no garden or you buy with a garden and pay for it. Everybody who wants to buy in a particular area and wants the three bed semi with a garden can't.

We don't have the land its as simple as that.

With respect, we're not talking about the fiscally irresponsible. We're talking about people who've done everything "right". They've good jobs and have been saving years while paying ever increasing rent. They kept saving and the prices just kept going up until they were finally locked out. If they'd been born a few years earlier like yourself they'd have been fine. It's luck and timing that they weren't.

The Student

snow_bunny wrote: »

With respect, we're not talking about the fiscally irresponsible. We're talking about people who've done everything "right". They've good jobs and have been saving years while paying ever increasing rent. They kept saving and the prices just kept going up until they were finally locked out. If they'd been born a few years earlier like yourself they'd have been fine. It's luck and timing that they weren't.

They didn't though they chose to move out and pay the rents they did and now don't have a sufficient deposit. If they did not pay the rents how much would they have now that they did not use for rent?

They chose a course of action that did not work out. Their current position is the consequences of their choice.

snow_bunny

The Student wrote: »

They didn't though they chose to move out and pay the rents they did and now don't have a sufficient deposit. If they did not pay the rents how much would they have now that they did not use for rent?

They chose a course of action that did not work out. Their current position is the consequences of their choice.

Chose to move out of where? I only know one person that was permitted to live at home past the age of 22. Rent was reasonable enough anyway when they moved out 10 years or so ago. A lot of people I know who are affected by this aren't even from Dublin in the first place, they had to move for work and in a lot of cases can't WFH, can't transfer and can't get a job in their industry outside of Dublin. They do have sufficient deposits, the house prices have gone up about 150k in some places compared to a couple of years ago before the pandemic and they will no longer get the mortgage from the bank.

Seriously, what am I missing here? How can this still be dawning on people? How can anyone defend the current shambles and status quo? Mad.

Dav010

snow_bunny wrote: »

So you think the solution to an extremely serious housing crisis is to have everyone move to Leitrim is it? Hospital doctors, nurses, guards, teachers, VPs of legal, bar managers, etc. You realise not everyone can WFH and some people work shifts right? You don't think it would be easier and better to just, I dunno, build more housing, limit REITs, stop leasing 600k flats in Dundrum for social housing? Pull the other one.

I think if you can’t afford to buy where you want, then you have to look elsewhere, Leitrim might perhaps be the lowest property area in the country, but you do not have to go there unless you want to.

If more houses are built in Dublin, there is no guarantee everyone will be able to afford them and it is impractical to expect affordable housing to be provided for all in any area people want to live. This is not a phenomenon particular to Dublin, or even Ireland. People have always had to live where they can afford to.

Ace2007

snow_bunny wrote: »

So you think the solution to an extremely serious housing crisis is to have everyone move to Leitrim is it? Hospital doctors, nurses, guards, teachers, VPs of legal, bar managers, etc. You realise not everyone can WFH and some people work shifts right? You don't think it would be easier and better to just, I dunno, build more housing, limit REITs, stop leasing 600k flats in Dundrum for social housing? Pull the other one.

But is it an extremely serious housing crisis? Are people in Donegal and Kerry facing the same issues, or is it mainly a Dublin issue?

There are hospitals in every part of the country - if you want to move, you can make it happen.

If you have lived in Ireland over the last 20 years you will know the boom/bust of property and so if your buying towards the top end of the boom, it's going to be more expensive.

Where in Dublin do you want more houses built? Who do you want to provide the money to build the houses - developers can't raise the cash to borrow the money that REITs will provide them. Do you want the government to build houses and then sell them on the open market? Or do you want to government to build houses and given them to the homeless and those that require social houses?

The Student

snow_bunny wrote: »

Chose to move out of where? I only know one person that was permitted to live at home past the age of 22. Rent was reasonable enough anyway when they moved out 10 years or so ago. A lot of people I know who are affected by this aren't even from Dublin in the first place, they had to move for work and in a lot of cases can't WFH, can't transfer and can't get a job in their industry outside of Dublin. They do have sufficient deposits, the house prices have gone up about 150k in some places compared to a couple of years ago before the pandemic and they will no longer get the mortgage from the bank.

Seriously, what am I missing here? How can this still be dawning on people? How can anyone defend the current shambles and status quo? Mad.

Any house price that has gone up by €150k over a couple of years suggest to me these houses are not typical three bed semi.

I recently posted a similar example of this type of issue. A couple on €70k between them could get a 30yr mortgage costing circa €800 per month. If they are well salaried (most likely earning more than €70k between them) then throw in a couple of children and it's still achievable.

Using the above with your post two well salaried people who have a deposit could purchase a three bed semi in Dublin for €300k.

So again using your example living in Dublin is still achievable or is it a case the people you know can't afford where they want or they can afford some areas but don't want to live there?

snow_bunny

Dav010 wrote: »

I think if you can’t afford to buy where you want, then you have to look elsewhere, Leitrim might perhaps be the lowest property area in the country, but you do not have to go there unless you want to.

If more houses are built in Dublin, there is no guarantee everyone will be able to afford them and it is impractical to expect affordable housing to be provided for all in any area people want to live. This is not a phenomenon particular to Dublin, or even Ireland. People have always had to live where they can afford to.

I totally agree that you have to cut your cloth to measure and not everyone is going to get what they want, that's fair enough and it's a free market system that mostly operates on merit.

The problem is, what we have at the moment isn't a free market. We have a situation where the government have allowed and encouraged industry to become Dublin focused. 40% of the population live in the urban centres. Therefore, it is necessary for most people's careers and life to be located there. The government then stepped in and rather than building social housing, began competing against taxpayers with their own money on privately built and leased accommodation in prime locations. They also allowed a situation whereby investment firms can buy up entire estates. It's no longer a free market, it's rigged.

The situation being presented by some posters here is based on the market ten or fifteen years ago, before we opened the shop to foreign interests.

A lot could be done to ease and eventually fix it but there's no interest on the part of FFFG, apart from platitudes and further worsening in the form of shared equity. They're in for a rude awakening.

nimrod86

Dav010 wrote: »

I think if you can’t afford to buy where you want, then you have to look elsewhere, Leitrim might perhaps be the lowest property area in the country, but you do not have to go there unless you want to.

If more houses are built in Dublin, there is no guarantee everyone will be able to afford them and it is impractical to expect affordable housing to be provided for all in any area people want to live. This is not a phenomenon particular to Dublin, or even Ireland. People have always had to live where they can afford to.

Exactly this, a few people were talking particular about my case that I shared, I accepted I couldn't afford where I wanted to be, so I got on with it and found somewhere I could afford what I wanted and accepted a commute to work would be a part of my life.

My parents before me did the same, moving from South Dublin to Wicklow in the early 90's because that's where they could afford, and back then without the motorways that too meant a long commute as they both still worked in Dublin. As you said, you buy where you can afford, and you make do with the situation.

neonsofa

Dav010 wrote: »

There was an article a couple of weeks ago about the incredible increase in bank deposits during the past year as shops were closed and travel abroad restricted. Shows that savings are possible when spending on luxuries are curtailed.

In my own case, huge savings were made during the first lockdown on childcare, 600 a month straight into savings that would usually be spent on childcare. Its not really a luxury that can be curtailed for most people in usual circumstances. Not saying all of them saved on childcare alone but I'd say childcare costs were a huge factor for a lot of people when they changed to WFH with childcare facilities and schools closed but as soon as things return to normal that's a huge expense again.

Ace2007

snow_bunny wrote: »

A lot could be done to ease and eventually fix it but there's no interest on the part of FFFG, apart from platitudes and further worsening in the form of shared equity. They're in for a rude awakening.

I've read this before, but what is the alternative? SF? what's the solution to all of this? The number one thing SF want is a Untied Ireland - it's not to fix the broken health care system, it's not to fix the "housing crisis", and it's not to fix about 100 other issues that this country has.

Let's read their Housing policy even

Sinn Féin priorities include:

Introduce a refundable tax credit putting one month’s rent back into renters’ pockets … €250 million

Deliver 12,000 real social homes, 4,000 affordable rental homes and 4,000 affordable purchase homes … additional €1.5 billion.

Reintroducing the Covid-19 emergency ban on evictions, notices to quit and rent increases

Introduce a 3% Stamp Duty Surcharge on Residential Property for Non-resident Investment Funds that purchase private homes, pushing up rents and property prices to unsustainable levels

They propose 12,000 real social homes, 4,000 affordable rental and only 4,000 affordable purchase homes - all these in Ireland. where are they going to build these 4,000 affordable houses - minor detail that they don't mention - how is it going to be funded - again minor detail - whose is going to build them - again minor detail.

If you read their statements that start by telling you all about what the current government has done, it doesn't say what they will do, just their proposals.

They go on to state:
Increase Stamp Duty to 2% and 5% on residential properties of values above €700k and €1 million respectively - that's going to increase those house prices, or force those in that bracket to look below 700 which will ripple down.

Increase Capital Acquisitions Tax by 3% and reduce the Group A tax-free threshold to €302,000 -sound of them to screw over those who want to leave something to their families....

Ace2007

Just to add to the above - do you notice how their priority isn't to ban Investment Funds from buying up houses, yet in the Dail during the week Mary Lou and co where saying the 10% stamp duty doesn't go far enough and that the government should stop it altogether.

Why then do SF not have this in their priorities - strange no?

snow_bunny

Ace2007 wrote: »

I've read this before, but what is the alternative? SF? what's the solution to all of this? The number one thing SF want is a Untied Ireland - it's not to fix the broken health care system, it's not to fix the "housing crisis", and it's not to fix about 100 other issues that this country has.

Let's read their Housing policy even


They propose 12,000 real social homes, 4,000 affordable rental and only 4,000 affordable purchase homes - all these in Ireland. where are they going to build these 4,000 affordable houses - minor detail that they don't mention - how is it going to be funded - again minor detail - whose is going to build them - again minor detail.

If you read their statements that start by telling you all about what the current government has done, it doesn't say what they will do, just their proposals.

They go on to state:
Increase Stamp Duty to 2% and 5% on residential properties of values above €700k and €1 million respectively - that's going to increase those house prices, or force those in that bracket to look below 700 which will ripple down.

Increase Capital Acquisitions Tax by 3% and reduce the Group A tax-free threshold to €302,000 -sound of them to screw over those who want to leave something to their families....

Oh I totally agree with you, I don't think SF have the answers either. I do think they'll be voted in as a protest vote though. There's a LOT of anger our there from my generation and from our parents who have just realised their 30 something children might never own a home. Boards isn't really an accurate representation of the average youth demographic, you'd have to hop on over to reddit or twitter for that.

In terms of solutions, personally I'd be in favour of
• tax relief for renters
• 10%pa vacancy tax on land and property
• REITs banned from buying residential property. If they want to build then that's fine buy no buying what someone else built.
• Tax on REIT profits
• 2% annual property tax on any property aside from primary residence unless rented for 9 months of the year minimum.
• scrap the shared equity scheme, it's just going to raise prices
• councils need to be kept in check with regards planning. They also need to start building themselves
• incentivise WFH through tax relief
• Incentivise industry to locate to Cork, Limerick and Galway through tax relief.

I can probably list more that have been suggested over the last year but you get the picture.

lawrencesummers

The one thing that is often being forgotten is that for every successful buyer there is a seller, and sellers are most often happy to be the beneficiary of the higher price they are now getting because of the scarcity in the market.

jimmycrackcorm

lawrencesummers wrote:

The one thing that is often being forgotten is that for every successful buyer there is a seller, and sellers are most often happy to be the beneficiary of the higher price they are now getting because of the scarcity in the market.

Unless they are selling an investment property, they too have to pay a higher price of they are moving home.