Investment Firms Buying Estates

jrosen

hmmm wrote: »

Banning these funds is great and all, but you have to ask just who is going to fund the building new housing? Developers don't have the cash to be building apartment blocks and estates on spec, and they'll end up building 5 or 6 houses, selling them, building 5 or 6 houses, selling them etc. Private landlords aren't getting into renting any more, that again has been made uneconomic. I think most people don't want the SF solution of huge council estates.

There has to be a middle ground here, and something with a bit more nuance than what is being proposed. Unfortunately the politicians are being forced to take populist actions which they know will reduce supply which is desperately needed.

Perhaps something along the lines of a Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac like in the US? Or the government itself taking on the role of providing finance to developers?

I agree too with the posters above that people who are trying to buy a home getting outbid for social housing is just wrong.

I dont buy that the developers dont have funds. They have been building and selling for the last few years and plenty of developments have been sold privately. This is nothing more than a quick and easy buck for the developer. He gets to sell in bulk and get his money in bulk and move on. There are some developers that are building the initial phase, maybe 30 houses and when they sell they release more. So they are only building as they are selling. Its safer for them but time consuming and draws out the overall build.

The local authority also hold bonds over the developer so when they close a site they get that bond back.

I think there is a place in the market for rental buildings and this is where the investment funds could be beneficial. Ive lived abroad where whole apartments buildings were for rental only. Great managements, every apt has the exact same spec. These companies owned numerous buildings.

The semi D housing estates need to be left alone

Anjunadeep

shanec1928 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/ActingTheGom/status/1389957938366885889?s=20

Is this legit?
I don't see the actual name of the investment company mentioned anywhere?


Edit : Oh I see it now. Formation Group PLC.
https://find-and-update.company-information.service.gov.uk/company/04145632/officers
Willie is listed. Thats unreal.

.42.

punisher5112 wrote: »

Generation rent is going to be this in a nutshell and if nothing is done nobody unless extremely wealthy will be able to buy.

Do you think only the wealthy buy in mainland europe?

Generation rent has been going on for decades in the EU.

Maybe Ireland should move with the times.

Feisar

.42. wrote: »

Do you think only the wealthy buy in mainland europe?

Generation rent has been going on for decades in the EU.

Maybe Ireland should move with the times.

We don’t have the laws/structures in place for it.

.42.

Feisar wrote: »

We don’t have the laws/structures in place for it.

Yet.


Moving with the times will require overhaul of the rules.

We already know the current laws and processes dont work.

ednwireland

nothing will change until the councils start building council houses. unfortunately there isnt the political will to do this.

.42.

ednwireland wrote: »

nothing will change until the councils start building council houses. unfortunately there isnt the political will to do this.

Council houses should be scrapped.

Emergency housing which are rentals should be used instead.

Geuze

Galwayhurl wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for the government lending developers money at 2% rather than the c. 17% that they pay banks/venture capital funds? Didn't ACC and ICC do similar in the past?

Might bring down the cost of building somewhat?

Yes, costs are too high:

(1) site costs are way too high

(2) as you say, finance costs are too high

(3) developers margin at 15% is too high

Sweet.Science

Is the only way councils can get houses built now

Investment fund buys from developer en masse . Council leases above market rate for 30 years . Win win for developer and investment fund . No risk at all just profit

Is this sustainable ?

Colonel Claptrap

Irish Times are now reporting that the fund intends to rent out all of the homes for €2,000 to private renters - not to the council.

Keep in mind, Kildare CoCo originally planned to assign 142 units to Tuath as social housing.

A first time buyer would probably be annoyed at not having the chance to buy. Having said that, there are now 170 properties in the Maynooth area open to private renters which hopefully will result in downward pressure on rent prices.

Renters - happy
FTB - mixed feelings
Social - unhappy
Dail opposition - creaming their pants

timmyntc

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Irish Times are now reporting that the fund intends to rent out all of the homes for €2,000 to private renters - not to the council.

Keep in mind, Kildare CoCo originally planned to assign 142 units to Tuath as social housing.

A first time buyer would probably be annoyed at not having the chance to buy. Having said that, there are now 170 properties in the Maynooth area open to private renters which hopefully will result in downward pressure on rent prices.

Renters - happy
FTB - mixed feelings
Social - unhappy
Dail opposition - creaming their pants

€2k per month for a house in Maynooth seems extortionate no?

Sweet.Science

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

Irish Times are now reporting that the fund intends to rent out all of the homes for €2,000 to private renters - not to the council.

Keep in mind, Kildare CoCo originally planned to assign 142 units to Tuath as social housing.

A first time buyer would probably be annoyed at not having the chance to buy. Having said that, there are now 170 properties in the Maynooth area open to private renters which hopefully will result in downward pressure on rent prices.

Renters - happy
FTB - mixed feelings
Social - unhappy
Dail opposition - creaming their pants

I'd take that with a pinch of salt . I'm sure they will be leased to the council in time

Kamu

timmyntc wrote: »

€2k per month for a house in Maynooth seems extortionate no?

Don't forget these investment funds can just sit on these properties indefinitely until a renter willing to pay the higher rents come in as they have the capital to hold off.

Unlike individual landlords who wouldn't be able to afford to have an empty property, these firms can have rakes of properties empty.

JimmyVik

Kamu wrote: »

Don't forget these investment funds can just sit on these properties indefinitely until a renter willing to pay the higher rents come in as they have the capital to hold off.

Unlike individual landlords who wouldn't be able to afford to have an empty property, these finds can have rakes of properties empty.

100% sure a big chuink of them will be.
Did they say anything about housing charities

hmmm

Galwayhurl wrote: »

Is there anything to be said for the government lending developers money at 2% rather than the c. 17% that they pay banks/venture capital funds? Didn't ACC and ICC do similar in the past?

Might bring down the cost of building somewhat?

That'd be ideal, but I can see a few issues at the moment:
1. If the Government lends directly it gets added to our national debt, with consequences for our cost of borrowing
2. The opposition parties will be outraged, and insist that the government build the houses themselves using those 100,000 government-employed builders we have sitting around
3. Does the government want to fund only "affordable" homes (whatever that means?).
4. Does the State want to take the risk of lending to developers?

.42.

Kamu wrote: »

Don't forget these investment funds can just sit on these properties indefinitely until a renter willing to pay the higher rents come in as they have the capital to hold off.

Unlike individual landlords who wouldn't be able to afford to have an empty property, these firms can have rakes of properties empty.

I would think the the Estate would have the Same rental prices based on property type within the estate.

People will rent them quickly and I believe will feel better about the security that comes with the landlord as an investment company rather then have a go landlords who have no financial security.

I find the timing of this a bit curious. Almost like government are responding like this in a hope to quell the anger from, basically, any one who doesn’t own a house (and can’t get a chance to because of policies and price rises). I think it’s awful obviously, but why only the outrage now?

There are new build estates in Lucan, Clongriffin (apartments) and a few others that are almost 80% social/rental/charities for a long time. Is it an issue now that it’s outside of Dublin?

Meanwhile, state funded “charities” continue to bid and buy any property they can get their hands on in Dublin for under 300k, therefore creating more artificial inflation in the first time buyer market. Not a whisper about this, mind.

.42.

This is a benefit for the Government and Councils

They should be passing laws that require 10% of the Investment Firms rentals in the estates to be exclusively rented by the Council.

This will do away with Council houses completely and rental laws on evictions within these rental property should apply reducing antisocial issues in the long run.

I dont see the downside for the Government or Council.

Colonel Claptrap

.42. wrote: »

I would think the the Estate would have the Same rental prices based on property type within the estate.

People will rent them quickly and I believe will feel better about the security that comes with the landlord as an investment company rather then have a go landlords who have no financial security.

I'd take an institutional landlord over a private landlord any day.

I have rented 7 properties in my lifetime. 6 were from individuals. 1 was from Gannon, the infamous celtic tiger era developer.

Gannon never raised my rent, had workmen aplenty who could fix the boiler and a leaking window, and most importantly - Gannon gave me my full deposit back.

The other landlords were tyrants, scraping pennies any way they could. Shoddy furniture, unanswered phone calls when something broke, and only 1 of the 6 returned a full deposit.

.42.

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

I'd take an institutional landlord over a private landlord any day.

I have rented 7 properties in my lifetime. 6 were from individuals. 1 was from Gannon, the infamous celtic tiger era developer.

Gannon never raised my rent, had workmen aplenty who could fix the boiler and a leaking window, and most importantly - Gannon gave me my full deposit back.

The other landlords were tyrants, scraping pennies any way they could. Shoddy furniture, unanswered phone calls when something broke, and only 1 of the 6 returned a full deposit.

Ive had the same both here and in Germany as a Tennant.

In Germany where Ive rented for 10 years in multiple areas, The rental institutions would have people onsite who were responsible for technical issues in the properties.

It was very clear who was responsible for what you never had the feeling that at any time you would get notice to leave.

In Ireland its a different kettle of fish completely. Everything is Grey in relation to Tenants and Landlord responsibility.

You are told in Ireland that if a Tennant is renting a property well then its their home. is it really?

Landlords in Ireland have completely different interpretations of Rental laws.

The Government need to write up the rule book with these institutions so that everyone will know the rules and responsibilities.

kravmaga

Muahahaha wrote: »

Heard on the radio that the estate in Maynooth had 80% of its new starter homes bought by a fund. Ive a friend who is a first time buyer in Maynooth and cant get anything so they'll be fumng at this news. Anyone know what estate it was?

Funds buying up apartment blocks en masse and renting them back to the State has been going on in Dublin for a few years now. Dun Laoighire council are signed into 20 year leases on 90 apartments in Dundrum at 2k a month, its crazy stuff. But this is the first time Ive heard of the funds now moving out of Dublin and buying up housing estates.

Well basically all 154 homes have been bought by the consortium , thats 154 potential 1st time buyers let down.

People just want somewhere to live, not get out bid by an investment fund.

Minister for Housing Darragh O' Brien was grilled by TV3 Alan Hughes and Lara Woods about it this morning. Lack of legislation , or it needs to be amended to stop this happening again.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0506/1214052-housing-investment-funds/

.42.

kravmaga wrote: »

Well basically all 154 homes have been bought by the consortium , thats 154 potential 1st time buyers let down.

That a Con alright.

But the other side of the coin is thats 154 houses available for Maynooth students, lectures, intel workers and renters on the commuter belt.

kravmaga

.42. wrote: »

That a Con alright.

But the other side of the coin is thats 154 houses available for Maynooth students, lectures, intel workers and renters on the commuter belt.

There is a greater demand for homes at this point in time not rental.

The vulture fund should only be allowed to buy up a proportion of a new build, not the entire development.

Im a former Intel employee myself and most of my colleagues did not live near the plant.

Maynooth uni students are all at home at the moment , plus most commuters in Maynooth are working from home also.

Topgear on Dave

kravmaga wrote: »

There is a greater demand for homes at this point in time not rental.

The vulture fund should only be allowed to buy up a proportion of a new build, not the entire development.

Im a former Intel employee myself and most of my colleagues did not live near the plant.

Maynooth uni students are all at home at the moment , plus most commuters in Maynooth are working from home also.

The university students and staff will be back. The intel factory is expanding again just over the road. I reckon they'll rent these houses no problem at all.

FromADistance

Colonel Claptrap wrote: »

I'd take an institutional landlord over a private landlord any day.

I have rented 7 properties in my lifetime. 6 were from individuals. 1 was from Gannon, the infamous celtic tiger era developer.

Gannon never raised my rent, had workmen aplenty who could fix the boiler and a leaking window, and most importantly - Gannon gave me my full deposit back.

The other landlords were tyrants, scraping pennies any way they could. Shoddy furniture, unanswered phone calls when something broke, and only 1 of the 6 returned a full deposit.

All fair comment but Gannon was never really an institutional landlord (in the strict sence). Yes he owned a lot of property but his main business was property development... developers like him often times held on to property in developments originally developed by companies of his (for various reasons). Anyhow... my point is that these types of institutional landlords are only interested in 'sweating the assets'... basically expect a 4% rent increase per annum if in a RPZ... if not god help you. These institutional landlords are also keeping homes empty and offering incentives to avoid having to reduce rent. The amateur landlord does not have this luxury.

There is a place for institutional landlords but not to the point where they buy out whole estates. It's hard enough to create, long term, sustainable communities without this carry on.

jimmycrackcorm

kravmaga wrote: »

Minister for Housing Darragh O' Brien was grilled by TV3 Alan Hughes and Lara Woods about it this morning. Lack of legislation , or it needs to be amended to stop this happening again.

https://www.rte.ie/news/politics/2021/0506/1214052-housing-investment-funds/

I would doubt that it can be stopped. What I foresee is that the funds will buy land and contract a developer to build an estate for them. Effectively being a pseudo developer themselves and tasking the property developer as merely the builder.

yer man!

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

I would doubt that it can be stopped. What I foresee is that the funds will buy land and contract a developer to build an estate for them. Effectively being a pseudo developer themselves and tasking the property developer as merely the builder.

That's still a better situation than the current one. If they're upfront about it and take all the risk of bringing the development to completion then grand. When it comes to a developer building a large estate and an investment fund swooping in, then that is not a good situation.

kravmaga

Topgear on Dave wrote: »

The university students and staff will be back. The intel factory is expanding again just over the road. I reckon they'll rent these houses no problem at all.

The main point as shown on RTE1 news at 9pm is the 1st time buyer is being pushed out of the market by these investment funds. We are talking about people trying to buy their 1st home not renting or the potential for renters.

They gave an example of a 40 year old woman who is living at home with her parents and is constantly being outbid, she was looking to buy one of these houses in Maynooth. Her window of opportunity is closing soon due to her age and her maximum budget for her mortgage, she is a professional worker, still at home at 40 with Mum and Dad.

She was clearly angry and the government are going to have to change the legislation to stop this happening.

Mad_maxx

Deleted User wrote: »

I find the timing of this a bit curious. Almost like government are responding like this in a hope to quell the anger from, basically, any one who doesn’t own a house (and can’t get a chance to because of policies and price rises). I think it’s awful obviously, but why only the outrage now?

There are new build estates in Lucan, Clongriffin (apartments) and a few others that are almost 80% social/rental/charities for a long time. Is it an issue now that it’s outside of Dublin?

Meanwhile, state funded “charities” continue to bid and buy any property they can get their hands on in Dublin for under 300k, therefore creating more artificial inflation in the first time buyer market. Not a whisper about this, mind.

charities etc are viewed as good guys , not evil capitalists like the REIT,s etc

the whole narrative is simplistic beyond belief

ongarite

kravmaga wrote: »

The main point as shown on RTE1 news at 9pm is the 1st time buyer is being pushed out of the market by these investment funds. We are talking about people trying to buy their 1st home not renting or the potential for renters.

They gave an example of a 40 year old woman who is living at home with her parents and is constantly being outbid, she was looking to buy one of these houses in Maynooth. Her window of opportunity is closing soon due to her age and her maximum budget for her mortgage, she is a professional worker, still at home at 40 with Mum and Dad.

She was clearly angry and the government are going to have to change the legislation to stop this happening.

She may be angry but it was misdirected.
Investment funds weren't stopping her from buying a house.

She was in dreamland looking for a house near Finglas for 225K.
Do well to find a 2 bed apartment for that money anywhere in Dublin city/county.