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Investment Firms Buying Estates
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Wanderer78 wrote: »...this approach causes all sorts of complex social issues and dysfunctions, the break down of social cohesion etc
Lots of things cause that.
There's no imperative that you'll always be able to afford to live where you grew up.0 -
More a credit bubble and lack of regulatory oversight, with Govt neglect of same.
part and parcel of these ideologies, its clearly failedLots of things cause that.
There's no imperative that you'll always be able to afford to live where you grew up.
by continually encouraging these outcomes, we increase the likelihood of these dysfunctional outcomes, ultimately costing us a fortune in the long run, gentrification is failing0 -
If you looked at areas that were gentrified back in the 80s and 90s with high crime rates. You wouldn't think they were better then than now.
Beside the issue is still lack of supply. Its also lack of supply at the social housing, low end and mid parts of the market. if you have money there is plenty of supply at the top end. Hence the high end apartments and such sitting empty.
Gentrification isn't an always an issue if you have somewhere else to go.0 -
If you looked at areas that were gentrified back in the 80s and 90s with high crime rates. You wouldn't think they were better then than now.
Beside the issue is still lack of supply. Its also lack of supply at the social housing, low end and mid parts of the market. if you have money there is plenty of supply at the top end. Hence the high end apartments and such sitting empty.
Gentrification isn't an always an issue if you have somewhere else to go.
gentrification is driving people out of areas, causing the breakdown of social structures, and is now leading us into dysfunctional, problematic and even dangerous voting and election outcomes, 'take back control' and 'make (insert name) great again', how far do we want to push this! our serious supply issues is only one element of this, but a major one at that0 -
Deleted User wrote: »Minister for housing was on Newstalk this evening, chatting about the new measures, of which the 10% stamp duty was the big one.
However, he said something else, twice, and yer man hosting (Ciaran?) never asked him to elaborate or explain further. Minister said that all new planning permissions will be based on one purchase only. Which is a very vague sentence. And 10% duty kicks in after you buy 9 houses.
So.. my interpretation of that, is that an investment firm will only be able to buy one house per new development, and once they go over 9 houses in a calendar year, they pay stamp duty at 10%. So in theory, if they only bought new houses in new developments, in order to secure 9 houses, they would need to buy in 9 new developments...?
(of course anything that currently exists, or has already had planning permission granted, they can buy as much as they like, this only affects new planning permissions granted today onwards)?
If this is true, it's a massive step in the right direction. But it was said twice and glossed over with not further explanation.
Yes I understood it as planning to ensure owner occupier but as it will take circa 2 years for the planning measures to take effect the 10% stamp duty is a measure to try improve situation before then.
The planning will be for houses only not apartments.
Guess planners, developers ect all getting creative now to figure out how to work around this one.
Investment firms have to buy as much as possible in the short term as wont be houses available for them once that planning in place0 -
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zerosugarbuzz wrote: »I had an average job in the late 80s /90s. Bought my first house aged 23 by saving the deposit and getting a mortgage. Most of my friends did the same by the time they were 30 latest. It wasn’t a big deal or an achievement back then, it was just what people did.
This type of post never ceases to amaze me. Houses in the 70's/80's were as basic (certainly in the 70's) as you could get. We moved into a new build in the mid 70's and it came with nothing. No central heating, no insulation, single cupboard in the kitchen that had the sink on it. Single glazed wooden windows, no shower, chipboard floorboards.
It is incorrect to compare house prices of the past with house prices now. You could probably knock anywhere between 50k to 75k off the price of a new house if you just built a house to the same finish they were in the 70's and 80's.
But every wants insulation, heating, "A" rated houses but don't want to pay for it.
We are not comparing like with like when comparing the house finish now with those of the 70's & 80's.
Those who purchased in these times have updated them, be it installing central heating, better flooring etc.0 -
The Student wrote: »This type of post never ceases to amaze me. Houses in the 70's/80's were as basic (certainly in the 70's) as you could get. We moved into a new build in the mid 70's and it came with nothing. No central heating, no insulation, single cupboard in the kitchen that had the sink on it. Single glazed wooden windows, no shower, chipboard floorboards.
It is incorrect to compare house prices of the past with house prices now. You could probably knock anywhere between 50k to 75k off the price of a new house if you just built a house to the same finish they were in the 70's and 80's.
But every wants insulation, heating, "A" rated houses but don't want to pay for it.
We are not comparing like with like when comparing the house finish now with those of the 70's & 80's.
Those who purchased in these times have updated them, be it installing central heating, better flooring etc.
You’re clearly far more easily amazed than I am. The point being, people with average incomes could realistically expect to be able to buy a house in Dublin City then. They can not now. The fixtures and fittings are irrelevant, though it was nowhere near as basic as you describe.0 -
zerosugarbuzz wrote: »You’re clearly far more easily amazed than I am. The point being, people with average incomes could realistically expect to be able to buy a house in Dublin City then. They can not now. The fixtures and fittings are irrelevant, though it was nowhere near as basic as you describe.
House prices where lower. Average incomes could not afford to purchase houses as much as you think. Look at how many council estates there were in the 70's and 80's.
People were offered the option to purchase there council properties in the 1980's at a discount based on the rent they had paid.
The fixtures and fittings are not irrelevant. People who bought in the 70's and 80's did not have the fixtures and fittings now seen as standard. The cost of properties now include insulation etc.
With respect I know exactly what came with our family home when we purchased it. You may have experienced different but please don't tell me what I experienced.0 -
zerosugarbuzz wrote: »You’re clearly far more easily amazed than I am. The point being, people with average incomes could realistically expect to be able to buy a house in Dublin City then. They can not now. The fixtures and fittings are irrelevant, though it was nowhere near as basic as you describe.
Ah housing construction was far simpler and more basic back then. Cavity blocks and damn all insulation.
Dublin is massive now though. Everybody wants to live there, far more industry, its full with native Dubs, culchies like me from all over the country and massive immigration.
Many people,few houses, prices go up.
Was that the situation in the 80s or 90s? Iv a Dub friend who finished school in '89 and left for London almost immediately.0 -
zerosugarbuzz wrote: »You’re clearly far more easily amazed than I am. The point being, people with average incomes could realistically expect to be able to buy a house in Dublin City then. They can not now. The fixtures and fittings are irrelevant, though it was nowhere near as basic as you describe.The Student wrote: »House prices where lower. Average incomes could not afford to purchase houses as much as you think. Look at how many council estates there were in the 70's and 80's.
People were offered the option to purchase there council properties in the 1980's at a discount based on the rent they had paid.
The fixtures and fittings are not irrelevant. People who bought in the 70's and 80's did not have the fixtures and fittings now seen as standard. The cost of properties now include insulation etc.
With respect I know exactly what came with our family home when we purchased it. You may have experienced different but please don't tell me what I experienced.
both probably have relevance, but its virtually impossible to compare generational differences, its clearly obvious we ve been experiencing major property price inflation over the last couple of decades0 -
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Just looking at the detail in the new policy and it really is quite the fudge. For one it doesnt apply to property that already has planning permission. There are 80,000 units which are not yet built but have planning permission already now. That means the effects of the new policy wont be felt for about 2-3 years at best anyway.
Then the next thing they did was exclude new apartments from the rules. Im on the fence with this one because we need funds to fund the building of apartments if the banks are not lending to deveopers for it. But the flip side of that is it means pretty much all new apartment building inside the M50 is going to get swallowed up by the funds for build to rent. This then means that FTBers looking to buy their first home as a new apartment inside the M50 are bang out of luck and will be forced out into commuter towns. So in a short period of time the funds come to absolutely dominate new apartment building for rent only inside the M50.
That is going to result in a fundamental change in outcomes. Up until now your typical first time buyer market was a couple buying a new apartment inside the M50, getting the FTB grant, etc and then maybe 5-10 years later upgrading to a 3/4 bed semi further out in commuter towns. Now with this new policy the funds have been restricted from buying up housing estates like we saw in Maynooth but it is a free for all for them with apartments and thats where their money will get diverted to. They will hoover up apartments in a big way which will result in FTBers not being able to buy a new apartment thus forcing them further out for their first purchase.
I really think this new policy is a massive fudge of half measures thats actually going to result in even more chaos 2 or 3 years down the line. Its a sticking plaster approach and it will burst wide open again.0 -
The Student wrote: »This type of post never ceases to amaze me. Houses in the 70's/80's were as basic (certainly in the 70's) as you could get. We moved into a new build in the mid 70's and it came with nothing. No central heating, no insulation, single cupboard in the kitchen that had the sink on it. Single glazed wooden windows, no shower, chipboard floorboards.
It is incorrect to compare house prices of the past with house prices now. You could probably knock anywhere between 50k to 75k off the price of a new house if you just built a house to the same finish they were in the 70's and 80's.
But every wants insulation, heating, "A" rated houses but don't want to pay for it.
We are not comparing like with like when comparing the house finish now with those of the 70's & 80's.
Those who purchased in these times have updated them, be it installing central heating, better flooring etc.
By the mid 1980s, they were far from basic and still vastly more affordable than now
My parents bought a new build in 1986 that had the modern setup - four bed, 3 bath (main bathroom, one en-suite, understairs toilet), fitted kitchen, wall and attic insulation (albeit not to modern standards), back boiler central heating (so the messy work already done for an oil/gas conversion). Still single glazed wooden windows/doors though.
This cost 3x an average single salary; in a Dublin commuter town with buses and commuter rail. The estate had two beds for a bit over 2x the average. An equivalent new build equivalent now - 4 bed 3 bath - would be more like 10x an average single salary.
The new build would probably be a three storey townhouse on a much smaller site; but it would be A rated and have some fitted appliances in the kitchen and tiling in the bathrooms. The difference wouldn't cost another years salary to retrofit let alone do in bulk.0 -
The Student wrote: »This type of post never ceases to amaze me. Houses in the 70's/80's were as basic (certainly in the 70's) as you could get. We moved into a new build in the mid 70's and it came with nothing. No central heating, no insulation, single cupboard in the kitchen that had the sink on it. Single glazed wooden windows, no shower, chipboard floorboards.
It is incorrect to compare house prices of the past with house prices now. You could probably knock anywhere between 50k to 75k off the price of a new house if you just built a house to the same finish they were in the 70's and 80's.
But every wants insulation, heating, "A" rated houses but don't want to pay for it.
We are not comparing like with like when comparing the house finish now with those of the 70's & 80's.
Those who purchased in these times have updated them, be it installing central heating, better flooring etc.
In the 70s and 80s our house had no heating apart from a 2 bar electric heater in the living room. We thought we were posh when we got a super ser for the kitchen.
I remember my glass of water that i would leave on the windowsil beside my bed would be frozen some mornings.
And then one day one of the neighbors missed the brakes after coming home drunk and ended up parked in his living room. the whole car in the living room. The walls it turned out were made of one course of blocks with expanded metal on top plastered.
We moved out on 1990. The council sold it to the next occupier in 1995. It was that person who gutted it and modernized it.
My aunt owned the house accross the road from ours. She bought hers off the council in 1986 I think and lived in it with no modifications. It was as i described above until she died in 2007.
Those houses are selling for €300k now and as you said, they are not the same houses they were then at all.0 -
By the mid 1980s, they were far from basic and still vastly more affordable than now
My parents bought a new build in 1986 that had the modern setup - four bed, 3 bath (main bathroom, one en-suite, understairs toilet), fitted kitchen, wall and attic insulation (albeit not to modern standards), back boiler central heating (so the messy work already done for an oil/gas conversion). Still single glazed wooden windows/doors though.
This cost 3x an average single salary; in a Dublin commuter town with buses and commuter rail. The estate had two beds for a bit over 2x the average. An equivalent new build equivalent now - 4 bed 3 bath - would be more like 10x an average single salary.
The new build would probably be a three storey townhouse on a much smaller site; but it would be A rated and have some fitted appliances in the kitchen and tiling in the bathrooms. The difference wouldn't cost another years salary to retrofit let alone do in bulk.
I bet they didnbt need to have 2 full time jobs to pay the mortgage though, like people are forced to do these days.
What interest rate were they paying on that?
And in 1986 it was hard to come by one job, never mind two for a household.0 -
I'm not entirely sure what this comment means.
Anyone who has the finances can buy a house. If you are outbid then you don't have the finances. Age has nothing to do with it.
“Anyone who has the finances” is a very subjective term. Hedge funds have finances, sons and daughters of millionaires have the finances. But the barometer needs to be can they average person buy an average house? Not by a long way and it’s the governments job to regulate that in favour of the individual citizens of the country.
What should the cost of a three bed semi be in relation to the average wage?
Because currently people on the average income can’t afford anything.
A functioning housing market means people on the average income can afford a house.0 -
What interest rate were they paying on that?
Not enough to materially correct for the difference in affordability. 1986 was well past the peak of rates in Ireland.
3.5x salary was a normal enough mortgage back then, with 20% deposit - but 20% of something costing 3 years salary is a lot easier to get than 10% of something costing 10 years salary - particularly with 5-6% interest earning while you saved for it.
The monthly payment was also dwindled as a proportion of income due to wage inflation at the time - not happening now.0 -
Not enough to materially correct for the difference in affordability. 1986 was well past the peak of rates in Ireland.
3.5x salary was a normal enough mortgage back then, with 20% deposit - but 20% of something costing 3 years salary is a lot easier to get than 10% of something costing 10 years salary - particularly with 5-6% interest earning while you saved for it.
Yes interest rates were down to 12.5% in 1986, from 13% in 1985.
That would have you paying €4k per month on a €400k mortgage these days.
I remember when my aunt bought her house then she had to be saving in the building society for 2 years before they would give her the mortgage.0 -
Yes interest rates were down to 12.5% in 1986, from 13% in 1985.
That would have you paying €4k per month on a €400k mortgage these days.
I remember when my aunt bought her house then she had to be saving in the building society for 2 years before they would give her the mortgage.
Or 1200 on an equivalently scaled mortgage for the equivalent affordability; and inflating away to something vastly less as a proportion very quickly.
Houses were vastly more affordable in the mid 80s than they are now and not all shacks either; with the deposit being no harder to save for. The 2 years saving requirement would have been down to significantly poorer credit reference systems compared to now.
My own house also cost a shade over 3x average salary in 1972 (for the first owner clearly) - 3 bed 1 bath, partial electric forced air central heating and a tiny fitted kitchen. Must check what the 4 bed 2 bath ones cost if I can find the newspaper ad again.0 -
By the mid 1980s, they were far from basic and still vastly more affordable than now
My parents bought a new build in 1986 that had the modern setup - four bed, 3 bath (main bathroom, one en-suite, understairs toilet), fitted kitchen, wall and attic insulation (albeit not to modern standards), back boiler central heating (so the messy work already done for an oil/gas conversion). Still single glazed wooden windows/doors though.
This cost 3x an average single salary; in a Dublin commuter town with buses and commuter rail. The estate had two beds for a bit over 2x the average. An equivalent new build equivalent now - 4 bed 3 bath - would be more like 10x an average single salary.
The new build would probably be a three storey townhouse on a much smaller site; but it would be A rated and have some fitted appliances in the kitchen and tiling in the bathrooms. The difference wouldn't cost another years salary to retrofit let alone do in bulk.
Well I can only give my experience as you can directly yours.
The majority of women stayed at home to mind the kids when we were growing up in the 70's.
Nowadays both men and women work but some are paying the equivalent to a mortgage in childcare. If this is the case logic would suggest that a single income would go a good way to affording a mortgage.
I happened to look at the cost of a mortgage recently and a mortgage of (I think €175k over 25 yrs) was €750 a month.
Using the above example by extending the term and increasing the amount it wouldn't be unrealistic to get €250k or so over 30 yrs for the same repayment.
You can still get a reasonable house around these prices or slightly above and €750 repayments a month are manageable on the average industrial wage (including children's allowance in the household income).
Also house prices closer to the city are going to be higher now as there is no new land to build on unless land has been redone etc.0 -
lawrencesummers wrote: »“Anyone who has the finances” is a very subjective term. Hedge funds have finances, sons and daughters of millionaires have the finances. But the barometer needs to be can they average person buy an average house? Not by a long way and it’s the governments job to regulate that in favour of the individual citizens of the country.
What should the cost of a three bed semi be in relation to the average wage?
Because currently people on the average income can’t afford anything.
A functioning housing market means people on the average income can afford a house.
Average people have finances. It's a bit of vague term.
Affordability relates to market prices and demand and supply. That is driven by govt economic policies.
Housing is a different issue. Housing relates to Govt social policies. They aren't interested.0 -
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The Student wrote: »Well I can only give my experience as you can directly yours.
The majority of women stayed at home to mind the kids when we were growing up in the 70's.
Nowadays both men and women work but some are paying the equivalent to a mortgage in childcare. If this is the case logic would suggest that a single income would go a good way to affording a mortgage.
I happened to look at the cost of a mortgage recently and a mortgage of (I think €175k over 25 yrs) was €750 a month.
Using the above example by extending the term and increasing the amount it wouldn't be unrealistic to get €250k or so over 30 yrs for the same repayment.
You can still get a reasonable house around these prices or slightly above and €750 repayments a month are manageable on the average industrial wage (including children's allowance in the household income).
Also house prices closer to the city are going to be higher now as there is no new land to build on unless land has been redone etc.
But a 250k mortgage needs an income of 71 grand under CBI rules; and they're really not going to go anywhere; so it isn't actually affordable. And childrens allowance isn't taken in to account; but children are - as a negative on your available cash!0 -
But a 250k mortgage needs an income of 71 grand under CBI rules; and they're really not going to go anywhere; so it isn't actually affordable. And childrens allowance isn't taken in to account; but children are - as a negative on your available cash!
His point is that its normally a combined income now thats buying ahouse, not a single income like in the 80s. Nowadays, if you are a single income buyer you will be competing with the spending power of dual income buyers.0 -
His point is that its normally a combined income now thats buying ahouse, not a single income like in the 80s. Nowadays, if you are a single income buyer you will be competing with the spending power of dual income buyers.
Single people are completely discriminated against in the property market. Even taking into account that the average salary in Dublin is higher than elsewhere, a single person looking at a 1 bed apartment would have slim pickings to choose from. At the minute, there are 53 1 bed apartments available in Dublin under 200k (am using 50k as the average salary in Dublin). There are no new build apartments in Dublin at that price (very few come up for sale anyhow) so first time single buyers are completely locked out of that market (unless they have an above average salary of course). I recall around 2012 that a single buyer could have easily purchased a 1 bed apartment in Dublin on a salary of 30k (Different times now I appreciate that but I recall looking at a few myself but hadn't got a deposit unfortunately; regretfully as I'd be on the pigs back now but anyhow). It's a sad state of affairs when the average salaried person cannot purchase an average home for their needs.0 -
But a 250k mortgage needs an income of 71 grand under CBI rules; and they're really not going to go anywhere; so it isn't actually affordable. And childrens allowance isn't taken in to account; but children are - as a negative on your available cash!
Income of 71k between a couple is not overly high. If we look at this further and the overall situation and try bring this back on topic.
The CBI rules are a crude method of 3.5 times (4.5 times as an exemption) your income which takes little or no consideration of the length of the mortgage.
A mortgage repayment of €800 per month on a €250k is affordable on the €71k joint income. Even if you had a single income of €45k this is still affordable.
So what we have was the introduction of the CBI rules without the corresponding increase in supply. We then have developers who can't access funds for building in the traditional manner from the banks. So they will access funds where they can ie the investment funds/cuckoo funds whatever term you want to use.
These funds will invest where they get the best return thats what business do ie its the property market (market being the key word). Now the Govt have introduced the legislation that up to 50% of new developments need to be either social and for first time buyers. What do you think is going to happen? The price of those not included in the 50% (or whatever fig) social and affordable will increase in price to subsidise the social and affordable housing houses.
If we extend the above CBI rules for the new builds whats going to happen? Developers will either build smaller houses or will have lower spec or wont build at all (as it may not be economical to do so). So now we have discouraged the market (again market being the key word).
We all know the only way we are going to get out of this situation is to increase supply. If you make the environment so bad all you will do is scare off those needed to actually increase supply.
My take on this is either (a) encourage/force the banks to loan to developers. (b) change the CBI mortgage rules to remove the crude 3.5 times wage to take account of the mortgage term. (c) leave the property market to run exactly as it is a market. (d) if the State needs to house people then let the State build on its own land and set the sale price/rent levels itself of its own properties.
Business people are by their nature used to facing challenges and adapting to the business environment. if the State tries to control the property market (not the property sector) the participants will find ways to react.
Also some people need to realise they will never own the house they want. This is part of a realisation that people either can't or are unwilling to accept.0 -
FromADistance wrote: »Single people are completely discriminated against in the property market. Even taking into account that the average salary in Dublin is higher than elsewhere, a single person looking at a 1 bed apartment would have slim pickings to choose from. At the minute, there are 53 1 bed apartments available in Dublin under 200k (am using 50k as the average salary in Dublin). There are no new build apartments in Dublin at that price (very few come up for sale anyhow) so first time single buyers are completely locked out of that market (unless they have an above average salary of course). I recall around 2012 that a single buyer could have easily purchased a 1 bed apartment in Dublin on a salary of 30k (Different times now I appreciate that but I recall looking at a few myself but hadn't got a deposit unfortunately; regretfully as I'd be on the pigs back now but anyhow). It's a sad state of affairs when the average salaried person cannot purchase an average home for their needs.
It isn’t just as simple as saying a single person should be able to buy a property in Dublin. For obvious reasons, a single person competing against the purchasing capacity of a couple is at a disadvantage, that is not discrimination, it is simple arithmetic. The CB limits on borrowings certainly does not help, but again, a couple where one loses a job is more likely to be able to pay a mortgage than a single unemployed person. In 2012 prices were on the floor, it is no surprise that property cost less then than now.
Lastly, a single person does not have to accept being locked out of the housing market, they just have to accept that they may be locked out of the Dublin housing market.
Ireland seems to be lurching from one disaster to the next. For years people were crying out for more rental properties to stoke competition in the market, for professional LLs to replace amateurs with one or two properties, for bans on STLs, now we have all these, more properties are being bought by professional investors for rental, rents have fallen, Airbnb is banned without planning etc. But now we don’t want professional investors, STLs will more to other platforms for cash, and people want the capacity to borrow to be increased so they can by high priced properties ala 2006 in Dublin. And around we go again.0 -
lawrencesummers wrote: »“Anyone who has the finances” is a very subjective term. Hedge funds have finances, sons and daughters of millionaires have the finances. But the barometer needs to be can they average person buy an average house? Not by a long way and it’s the governments job to regulate that in favour of the individual citizens of the country.
What should the cost of a three bed semi be in relation to the average wage?
Because currently people on the average income can’t afford anything.
A functioning housing market means people on the average income can afford a house.
That's why we have social housing, that's designed for people who can't afford a house.
It looks like we are moving towards a future where less and less people will own a house and will instead depend on the state0 -
The Student wrote: »....
Also some people need to realise they will never own the house they want. This is part of a realisation that people either can't or are unwilling to accept.
That's a problem in dublin, people want to live in some of the most expensive areas. Woman I worked with & boyfriend both from malahide wanted to buy a family home there. Both late 20's living with parents in order to save. They had a big 2 day wedding in a fancy castle with 250 guests & a month long honeymoon in the maldives, pre covid. Probably cost the same as a deposit on a nice house :eek:
They couldn't afford a 3/4 bed 2 bath with large gardens in malahide & didn't want a smaller house so eventually bought in swords as it was less expensive. She was really upset as the area was not as upmarket as malahide & she saw it as a step down socially.
everyone can't live in d4 or d6, we all have to "cut our cloth". Always fancied Sorrento road myself lol...0 -
That's why we have social housing, that's designed for people who can't afford a house.
It looks like we are moving towards a future where less and less people will own a house and will instead depend on the state
Depend on the state???
Bad management by the state is the bigger part of the problem...0 -
FromADistance wrote: »Single people are completely discriminated against in the property market. Even taking into account that the average salary in Dublin is higher than elsewhere, a single person looking at a 1 bed apartment would have slim pickings to choose from. At the minute, there are 53 1 bed apartments available in Dublin under 200k (am using 50k as the average salary in Dublin). There are no new build apartments in Dublin at that price (very few come up for sale anyhow) so first time single buyers are completely locked out of that market (unless they have an above average salary of course). I recall around 2012 that a single buyer could have easily purchased a 1 bed apartment in Dublin on a salary of 30k (Different times now I appreciate that but I recall looking at a few myself but hadn't got a deposit unfortunately; regretfully as I'd be on the pigs back now but anyhow). It's a sad state of affairs when the average salaried person cannot purchase an average home for their needs.
Wont be too long until a single person on €75k cant afford a 1 bed apartment. Maybe a co-living space.
But even if they earn enough that person on €50k is bidding against couples on €100k. They are not going to win.0 -
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Wont be too long until a single person on €75k cant afford a 1 bed apartment. Maybe a co-living space.
But even if they earn enough that person on €50k is bidding against couples on €100k. They are not going to win.
a couple on 100K will bid on a bigger more expensive house as opposite to a single person bidding on a less expensive 1 bed0
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