Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

B.A._Baracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340232#Comment_118340232

I get you. Just as long as its not you, your family or close friends dying tho right? Thats the hard question.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340310#Comment_118340310

One who is effected with cancer cannot go socialising, not caring if they have cancer, and then give cancer to another person tho. Cancer is not airborne.

BobHopeless

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340218#Comment_118340218

Clearing them out for the surge 🙁

lawrencesummers

Is midnight mass at 4pm now?

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339941#Comment_118339941

It’s absolutely fine if you go down this line, but show the proof. Show the science. The reason why some of this is so unpalatable is it seems like random shot in the dark restrictions.

There is no justification, just precaution and an abundance of caution. Show the science and it might be easier to take.

xhomelezz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340232#Comment_118340232

Well you can do both at the same time.

RunningFlyer

Just a reminder that a month ago we were presented with NPHET’s latest worrying models (before Omicron was a thing):

https://amp.rte.ie/amp/1259919/

“The best case scenario projected between 200 to 220 people needing ICU beds, with 1,100 to 1,200 requiring hospital care at a point next month.”

Yet here we are tonight with approx 400 in hospital which includes ~105 in ICU in the middle of December with the peak a week ago nowhere near their projections.

How there is no accountability for these inaccuracies is criminal, yet they are dictating their “exceptional concern” to shut things down for January.

If cases are through the roof and hospitals are full in January then I’ll eat my hat, but if Omicron turns out to be a damp squib (in terms of hospitalisations) then I cannot see how NPHET and Govt cannot be forced to resign or else face a no-confidence vote!?

Quantum Erasure

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340498#Comment_118340498

but if Omicron turns out to be a damp squib...

that's something like exactly what i was about to post, come mid January and no new peak in hospitalisations...

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339873#Comment_118339873

I don't agree with your last point .

Even at the worst through this the vast majority of people admitted to ICU pull through despite being at death's door . Our service is ensuring a mortality rate in Irish Covid intensive care units of between 20% and 25%, which is half that of some wealthier countries with better resourced healthcare , so watch your comparison there with "a late communist factory" if you don't mind !

Some of the very frail people do not make it as far as our door with Covid.

Is that who you are talking about " pulling the chord "on?

Or are you saying we should give up trying to save people in ICU?

Obviously there must be some recognition that deaths will occur , but that totally different to not even trying.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340196#Comment_118340196

Did you ever do any research into the excess deaths in Ireland during the pandemic?

thebaz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340498#Comment_118340498

I totally agree NPHET should be held accountable for ther projected exagerated figures, that seam constantly wrong, and badly wrong.

While I agree Martin has been totally weak, the reality is none of the opposition parties are coming out against NPHET, in fact they mainly seam even more pro- NPHET than Government. Think ther is large chunks of Irish society that seam to enjoy living semi-locked down in a state of constant anxiety, and these people vote - all very sad, we really have become a nanny state, and no better nanny than NPHET.

glitterIsland

I think the aim of the new guidelines and restrictions is to surpress the omicron variant before it takes a foothold within the population so that they can ramp up the boosters and get the boosters rolled out to more of the population.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340565#Comment_118340565

I'd doubt irish ICU's have a holy grail for treating Covid ICU patients that other countries dont

It's more likely we are admitting 50% of patients to ICU with a condition that other countries don't deem ICU treatment necessary

Ah_well.

It will become obvious within a few weeks whether this Omicron wave will lead to serious hospitalisations . IF and I reiterate IF the strain isn't causing the serious problems they are projecting then restrictions need to be lifted immediately. No waiting months **** away valuable time . If its been overblown then stop the charade immediately. The cardinal sin this country has made was not availing of better times like the last two summers for example . We are too slow to reopen fully . On another note thousands will be coming home from the UK next week for Christmas. There is avoiding this Omicron wave . Its coming fast now and closing pubs at 8 isn't going to do Jack **** about it. Nephet have a perverse obsession with hospitality. All the way through they have been battered like no other country .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340139#Comment_118340139

Wet pubs.

Arytonblue

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340498#Comment_118340498

Spolier alert - It won't matter. The exact same cheerleaders and sycophants, from today, from two months ago, from August, from last year etc will defend this state of affairs ad nauseum and I fail to see how it ever ends. It doesn't matter to people who think like this. NPHET are 'right'. The govt's decisions are always 'right'. The 'science' is right. Trust it. Do not question it. Even when shown to be wrong beyond little doubt? Doesn't matter. Think up another bullshíte excuse/ made up scenario/ fairytale/ whataboutism. You see it always going back to the basic 'arguments' from last year ffs even at this point. I even saw mention of 'essential services' and 'the need to reduce the spread' like it was 2020 all over again, today, December 2021. Vaccines? Apperently don't matter. People's lievelyhoods? Easily expendable. The sham of the Covid Certs? Oh that? Sure that was just temporary, temporary before being shown to be useless because now none of us can avail of them for travel etc.

Contradictions and logic holes galore? Doesn't matter. We're not really seeing an actual debate or discussion here. It's a game. A game of who is 'right' and more importantly, who is seen as 'right'. This long went away from being about empirical science and day to day reality, it's a **** game of 'I've picked a side of this discussion for so long that to go back now would be too embarrasing in spite of all obvious evidence to the contrary, best stick to my guns of nonsense and utter delusion'. Gutless, gaslighting and hypocritical bullshíte.

And it will happen again next year, and on and on and on. Threads like this will be going in literal circles because if it aint obvious to you by now it won't anytime soon. Sorry to be a downer but this whole thing fúcking sucks major ass.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340498#Comment_118340498

You do realise that the numbers being announced are not TOTALnumbers, just COVID patients?

mollser

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340601#Comment_118340601

I agree with that. Would be useful if they told us that though!

Akabusi

We all know these pointless restrictions will do no good in terms of cases. Could our Government for once have shown a bit of leadership and looked where we are today with hospital numbers falling, the booster program working away and positive news from S Africa and say we'll hold things as they are but if it turns negative we'll bring in more restrictions then. I think most people would be perfectly fine with that.

Ah_well.

Nolan says between 650 and 2k hospitalisations and 8k and 20k cases a day. What a monstrous margin of error to give yourself . Thanks for the clarity Philip. The man has a neck like a jockeys bollox

RunningFlyer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340684#Comment_118340684

Yes I am aware. As I hope you are that NPHETs models as per my link above refer to COVID patients, not total occupancy.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340611#Comment_118340611

Well that would be you talking out of ignorance again ,Fintan .

Did you read the NOCA audit on ICU care through the pandemic I posted a few weeks ago?

It shows , in case you don't believe me , that Irish ICUs compare favourably ( and that is by any metric apart from numbers of beds and doctors)with any OECD country, including direct comparisons with like for like patients in eg UK.

Now if we had more ICU beds would we still be shutting down now .yes probably .

Would we have opened up quicker in the Summer ? We should have been able to.

But looking at these restrictions not just today but over the last few weeks I am with you in that I don't think these people in charge are able to think about taking any risks ,whether it is due to fear of genuine overwhelming of the health service or something else.

B.A._Baracus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340458#Comment_118340458

Totally get you. A logical mind.

But... isn't this a bit like the start of covid? A lot of people said just a cold. You also have to assume the government knows more, not saying knows best, but knows more than what the normal joe soap knows. Before they will tell the normal joe soap.

Many countries like Germany and Austria preparing for the worst. Are we any different?

I mean I remember reading from many users on here summer 2020 that covid was over. Be free to go out and about. No worry of a second wave. That happened tho.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340724#Comment_118340724

I agree that the survival rate in Irish ICU's is twice that of some other countries

The point I'm making, or question I'm asking about that statistic (for almost 2 years now) is WHY?

What do Irish ICUs do to achieve that?

I'd imagine other countries must be asking what special treatment is used in Ireland, because at a 50% better survival rate, its a mind-blowing stat that we need to delve into, to save lives across the globe!!

So

1)Do we use special medicine or treatment in Ireland to achieve this high survival rate in ICU and why dont we share it with the world?

Or

2)Are we admitting people to ICUs here, that arent actually that sick, or wouldnt be deemed necessary of ICU admittance in other countries?

bucketybuck

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340350#Comment_118340350

So what?

Do you really think it will matter, that anything will actually be done about the health service?

That in 5/10/15 years time we won't be sitting here still lamenting the state of the health service?

Its been two years, what has been done about it so far? **** all.

What is going to happen in the next two years? **** all.

They will say that in middle of a pandemic isn't the time for institutional change. When the pandemic is over they might have some bullshit review that will last years, then governments will change and everything will get shelved again. "Slaintecare" anybody?

Highlighting the state of healthcare as if we didn't already know it was a mess, don't make me laugh. It has been a mess for years and this parish pump shithole did nothing about it then, and won't do anything about it now.

Pissing billions away on a hospital, that is the Irish way, serious institutional improvement isn't in the paddy vocabulary.

We have given away years of our lives to buy time for a system that won't ever change, how does it feel.

josip

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118339270#Comment_118339270

Would retaking your vows count as getting married? Even if you had to give the 3 months notice, it'd be good to have a 100 person placeholder in place for Paddy's day. The local pub would cover the wedding admin costs I'm sure.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340773#Comment_118340773

No. Simple answer. The countries compared little more unfavourably mortality wise were under severe pressure due to higher numbers at that time so that obviously affects outcome.

As it would quite rapidly here if in that situation.

No magic bullet. In every country the quality of care is determined primarily by the quality of nursing staff ( as in training and experience ) and the availability of that staff and appropriate resources , beds , doctors , equipment , drugs .

This is the direct correlation between pressure on health services and deaths.

Did you see my edit which I was writing on the last post while you were answering ?

Mango321

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340611#Comment_118340611

Christ, we're now on to 'don't let them into ICU'.

How about, give them an oxygen canister and walk away, like they did in Italy.

Ficheall

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340810#Comment_118340810

How have we "given away years of our lives"?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340810#Comment_118340810

Fact is they haven't said that, and have increased ICU beds and hospital beds to be fair .

About time I agree and a lot more needed, but it's ongoing now . Should have happened years ago but didn't here many people supporting nurses when they highlighted the lack .

Can't magic trained and experienced staff up though especially at a time when every country in the world is looking for the exact same thing .

blowitupref

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118340218#Comment_118340218

Lowest 8pm Friday hospital number since the 8th of October. On the 19th of November it was 607.