Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

duffman13

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355854#Comment_118355854

I dont know why you'd want or need a booster for at least 6 months after having Covid. I don't think it'll do any harm getting it but the natural response is as strong (for 6 months) as a vaccine according to the CDC.

I'm sure quite a lot of people have gotten a vacvine/booster who had been asymptomatic at this stage

johnnyrotten

Some parents need a head wobble. Lots of kids taken out of school early and walking around packed shopping centres unmasked

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118355973#Comment_118355973

Strange, if you are so big on sources for claims, why didn't you challenge the original poster who made a claim without a source? Double standard much?

No, you just don't prove a negative in a circumstance like this, i.e. you can never prove that a vaccine doesn't prevent transmission under some circumstances, however you can prove that they do, so that's where the burden of proof lies.

You should read the paper that this article references (here: Vaccine effectiveness against SARS-CoV-2 transmission to household contacts during dominance of Delta variant (B.1.617.2), August-September 2021, the Netherlands | medRxiv), to see that rates of transmission is NOT reduced from/to vaccinated/unvaccinated people. Transmission is only higher from unvaccinated to unvaccinated, which is irrelevant now.

strawdog

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356400#Comment_118356400

Doesn't seem to be any clear data on whether that holds for Omicron but they seem to be saying it doesn't whereas a mRNA booster does improve outcomes. Maybe infection on top of 2 initial doses as good as booster?

I've yet to hear of people who have recovered in the last 3 months who have been reinfected, but as with all Omicron questions it will become clear over the next few weeks as it takes hold

Cluedo Monopoly

Is there a mental health expert in NPHET?

If not, there should be.

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356636#Comment_118356636

Why? Theyre a recently created organisation to deal specifically with Covid 19.

MarkHenderson

Positivity heading the wrong way. Timing is brutal with the new variant

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356589#Comment_118356589

I would again highlight that this is household contacts (where transmission would be higher due to increased length of exposure) and that there was an effect.

And point out again that the authors conclusion and yours are at odds with each other (but you knew this already 😉).

Our results indicate that vaccination confers protection against onward transmission from vaccinated index cases, albeit somewhat less for Delta than for Alpha. Vaccine effectiveness against transmission to unvaccinated household contacts is stronger than to vaccinated household contacts, with the latter already largely protected from infection, and especially from severe disease, by their own vaccine-induced immunity, but differences in risk behavior may also play a role. Possible waning of vaccine effectiveness against infection and against onward transmission could result in increases in SARS-CoV-2 circulation among populations with high vaccine coverage. As full vaccination remains highly effective in preventing severe disease, also for Delta, a high vaccination coverage remains the key to control the COVID-19 pandemic.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356589#Comment_118356589

Is this paper really relevant now seeming as omicron is dominant variant now? Also, the paper doesn't agree with your interpretation of the data set ( which is all it is).

ninebeanrows

No sign of it yet

gipi

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/eu-sets-binding-nine-month-validity-of-vaccinations-for-covid-19-travel-pass-1.4760995

Looks like we'll be getting amended covid certs, they'll be needed for EU travel.

hotmail.com

Is there sanctions for parents who take their children out of education like this?

Pussyhands

Good question I heard on the radio was why hasn't there been some real advances in treatment of covid once you have it? I know there's some pill from Pfizer that will enhance their "covid franchise".

Like, everyone was pulling themselves over how fast they were able to come up with a vaccine but the vaccine was pretty much solved right away when covid was on the scene, just took the few months for trials and approvals. So many vaccines were developed right away. It can't have been that impressive science if so many scientists around the world had it figured out right away.

More impressive would be treatments for people who have covid. I had covid bad and I was sure there'd be something they'd be able give me but no....absolutely nothing.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356665#Comment_118356665

I would again highlight that this is household contacts (where transmission would be higher due to increased length of exposure) and that there was an effect.

The model they create just uses transmission data, the amount of contact isn't relevant here.

And point out again that the authors conclusion and yours are at odds with each other (but you knew this already 😉).

I'll again point out that this is discussion, not a finding of the study!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356669#Comment_118356669

Is this paper really relevant now seeming as omicron is dominant variant now?

Likely not

Also, the paper doesn't agree with your interpretation of the data set ( which is all it is).

I'm not interpreting the data, I'm just reading their findings:

In other words, the "adjusted 63%" is only for transmission from unvaccinated to unvaccinated people, which isn't relevant anymore.

I don't care about their narrative discussion, only what they actually studied, and actually found.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356589#Comment_118356589

Right, so people can throw out any kind of negative claim that want to, and you won't look for substantiation. They didn't just not definitely prove a negative, but provide any support or justification whatsoever for the sweeping claim. Really? Pull the other one. There is a burden of justification for such sweeping claims, or it is a licence for fake news.

But in any event, the original claim has been shown to be without foundation, by multiple studies. And I stand over, supported by the studies, the claim that vaccines reduce transmission and infection.

Also, the discussion was originally about covid pass which is a different environment to household close contacts, and so specially relevant to whether transmission is higher unvaccinated to unvaccinated.

The study you have cited shows there is less transmission among vaccinated people versus unvaccinated - with a lower secondary attack score. As does the studies I have cited.

So the best study you can find to counter the claim the vaccination doesn't affect transmission, actually proves that it reduces it.

Effectiveness of full vaccination of the index against transmission to fully vaccinated household contacts was 40% (95% confidence interval (CI) 20-54%), which is in addition to the direct protection of vaccination of contacts against infection. Effectiveness of full vaccination of the index against transmission to unvaccinated household contacts was 63% (95%CI 46-75%).

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356767#Comment_118356767

It's a bit disingenuous to try and use someone's paper to prove a point when the author disagrees with you and rejects your analysis.

But that's our floorpie!

bikeman1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356652#Comment_118356652

Can you advise when would be a “good time” for a new variant?

At last we have a variant that is not more than a cold for the vast vast majority of people compared to the one before. The timing couldn’t be better.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356777#Comment_118356777

I agree precisely with the authors findings, in fact I pasted them above so you can read, and compare to their narrative discussion of the same findings.

podgeandrodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356710#Comment_118356710

I'd say Leo made quite sure he was confident about uptick in cases. I hope I'm wrong, but can see zero reason why we won't have a surge in cases when it appears to happen everywhere else. The big question is the hospitalisations. If they don't ultimately surge, the current restrictions must be lifted in early January.

lawred2

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356712#Comment_118356712

nothing to see here

regular jabs of a private company product so as to allow a bit of travel

sure who could have a problem with that?

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356772#Comment_118356772

Right, so people can throw out any kind of negative claim that want to, and you won't look for substantiation. They didn't just not definitely prove a negative, but provide any support or justification whatsoever for the sweeping claim. Really? Pull the other one. There is a burden of justification for such sweeping claims, or it is a licence for fake news.

Of course, someone can't just throw out any hypothesis and claim that it's true without evidence but if there are two opposing claims (e.g. vaccines reduce transmission, vaccines don't reduce transmission) then it makes more sense to prove that they do. In fact the statistical tests used for these studies only work in this way (i.e. they can only "prove" that they reduce transmission, and not the opposite). I'm not just trying to be obstinate.

As does the studies I have cited.

The study I pasted is the one your news article cited. It shows no difference in rates of transmission from unvacc->vacc, vacc->vacc, vacc->unvacc. It only shows slightly higher transmission for unvacc->unvacc. I pasted the relevant part from the paper above, and linked to the paper.

Jim_Hodge

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356749#Comment_118356749

Because of a rise in cases in a school or class? No there isn't. Many parents are trying to be cautious in the run up to Christmas.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356807#Comment_118356807

The findings show a secondary infection rate of 13% from a vaccinated index case to unvaccinated contacts versus a 22% secondary infection rate from an unvaccinated index case to unvaccinated contacts.

So whether the index case was vaccinated or unvaccinated made a significant difference to how many people the infection was transmitted to.

I don't know what basis you make the claim that transmission from unvaccinated to unvaccinated is not relevant, especially as the discussion was related to covid pass.

Even if Omicron changes the picture somewhat, that picture may change with future variants again - but it establishes the general principle that vaccines have an effect which can reduce transmission, and it is false to claim the contrary.

DOCARCH

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356710#Comment_118356710

I wonder will we see true figures from the UK? There will always be limits on testing capacity.

I know of one person living in London, trying to come back to Dublin later this week for Christmas, and they can't get an appointment anywhere for a PCR test, so they may have to abandon their trip.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356646#Comment_118356646

Because NPHET recommendations also have an impact on people's mental health. Why would you object to a mental health expert/representative being in NPHET?

ACitizenErased

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356296#Comment_118356296

And with a decrease in hospitalisations.

glitterIsland

I feel sorry for my local hotel. I know the owner well and he's a good man. The place is often quite at the best of times. I like going there myself. There's no issue with social distancing there because the place does not get packed out.

I don't agree with last Fridays guidelines of an 8pm curfew for hospitality.

I think hospitality should have been allowed to run at reduced capacity.

I also think there should be a lockdown for the unvaccinated. Inforce the covid pass every where and make it illegal with heavy penalties to falsify the document or borrow someone else's covid pass.

The Nal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356996#Comment_118356996

They also have an impact on the economy. But I dont think they should have an economist in there.

Thats the governments job.

floorpie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356875#Comment_118356875

The findings show a secondary infection rate of 13% from a vaccinated index case to unvaccinated contacts versus a 22% secondary infection rate from an unvaccinated index case to unvaccinated contacts.

Yeah, that's what I said. The only increase in transmission they find is from unvacc -> unvacc, which isn't relevant in any EU country anymore. Even then, it's a marginal difference. As such, the line that "vaccines reduce transmission" should not be used to justify any restrictions based on vaccination status now, e.g. the covid cert. Rates of transmission in the real world (i.e. where 90+% of adults are vaccinated) are the same whether vaccinated or unvaccinated, now.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118356749#Comment_118356749

I would hope not.