Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

prunudo

ypres5 wrote: »

Are you vaccinated? If so why didn't you give your vaccine to some poor soul in south America or India? Or is that everyone else's job while you sit pontificating?

The thing is, our government is essentially forcing us, the healther under 50s to take the vaccine in order to return to normal. I will take it but if I had a choice, I would prefer if millions of our doses went to countries that need it for their ageing and vulnerable populations.
Getting the over 70s and at risk groups vaccinated will bring the biggest benefits to the health service. I don't really see the need to be vaccinating young and healthy people but unfortunately it is being mandated by the government in order to ease restrictions.

ZX7R

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Aren't 3rd world countries the riskiest now when it comes to variants ? So would it not make more sense to move at the same pace across the whole globe ?

Because the number of vaccines required to prevent a new variant occurring in 3rd world countries would outstrip the availability of vaccines for 1st world countries to reach there required heard immunity.
The best they can hope for at the moment is enough vaccine that would reduce the pressure on their health systems.

is_that_so

prunudo wrote: »

The thing is, our government is essentially forcing us, the healthier under 50s to take the vaccine in order to return to normal. I will take it but if I had a choice, I would prefer if millions of our doses went to countries that need it for their ageing and vulnerable populations.
Getting the over 70s and at risk groups vaccinated will bring the biggest benefits to the health service. I don't really see the need to be vaccinating young and healthy people but unfortunately it is being mandated by the government in order to ease restrictions.

You're not being forced or coerced and it only becomes an issue if too few take it. That doesn't seem to be happening in any great numbers to date so feel free to choose to opt out.

Sweet.Science

ZX7R wrote: »

Because the number of vaccines required to prevent a new variant occurring in 3rd world countries would outstrip the availability of vaccines for 1st world countries to reach there required heard immunity.
The best they can hope for at the moment is enough vaccine that would reduce the pressure on their health systems.

Yeah that's correct alright about not stopping the risk of variants . But they would still save thousands of lives

I just find it interesting our woke Irish (hate that term actually) twitter celebs plaster their vaccinations online when they don't need them while thousands around the globe are dying

It's a bit much for me

seamus

Lucas Hood wrote: »

I think the "disgraceful" part of their original post was aimed at the organisation of the roll out vaccines to younger people(typically lower risk) in well off countries while at high risk people in less well off countries are dying from covid still.

It's a balancing act.

There is no point in sending vaccines to countries that don't have high incidence rates, just because they're poor. I've not been overly impressed with the WHO's shouting about this.

Wealthy countries have for the most part, been the worst hit with this pandemic. Therefore concentrating rollout of vaccines in these countries, is optimal. Slowing down the vaccination programme in Europe so that we can send 50% of vaccine supplies to Ethiopia, makes no sense.

While there is a fair argument for leaving the less vulnerable unvaccinated and focussing on the vulnerable elsewhere in the world, the main argument against this is mutations. If the virus is circulating in high numbers amongst younger people, it may not result in many deaths or hospitalisations, then it can and will mutate over time. More infections == faster mutations.

This is what the "I'm alright Jack" attitude of refusing vaccines is ignorant of. When you're aiming for herd immunity, you need to put society's needs above your own. Herd immunity requires as many people as possible to take the vaccine, whether or not we feel like we are personally at risk.

So it is still necessary to drive towards herd immunity in the worst-affected regions. This will eliminate the virus from those regions, minimising the opportunity for mutations.

Poorer regions may be more vulnerable by virtue of being unvaccinated, but if the virus isn't circulating in high volumes, then focussing vaccination in the wealthier regions is still the better approach.

There is scope and justification now for trying to help poorer nations that are badly hit; India, Brazil, etc. But if most of Africa doesn't see many vaccines until 2022, that's not nationalism or inequality. It's merely focussing the vaccines where they're needed most.

Sweet.Science wrote: »

Yeah that's correct alright about not stopping the risk of variants . But they would still save thousands of lives

Possibly. But if, while you're busy vaccinating vulnerable people in countries with low rates of covid, a new variant arises in Europe that's sufficient to evade the vaccine and once again threaten the vulnerable, then in your attempt to save thousands of lives, you might end up killing tens of thousands.

Sweet.Science

seamus wrote: »

It's a balancing act.

There is no point in sending vaccines to countries that don't have high incidence rates, just because they're poor. I've not been overly impressed with the WHO's shouting about this.

Wealthy countries have for the most part, been the worst hit with this pandemic. Therefore concentrating rollout of vaccines in these countries, is optimal. Slowing down the vaccination programme in Europe so that we can send 50% of vaccine supplies to Ethiopia, makes no sense.

While there is a fair argument for leaving the less vulnerable unvaccinated and focussing on the vulnerable elsewhere in the world, the main argument against this is mutations. If the virus is circulating in high numbers amongst younger people, it may not result in many deaths or hospitalisations, then it can and will mutate over time. More infections == faster mutations.

This is what the "I'm alright Jack" attitude of refusing vaccines is ignorant of. When you're aiming for herd immunity, you need to put society's needs above your own. Herd immunity requires as many people as possible to take the vaccine, whether or not we feel like we are personally at risk.

So it is still necessary to drive towards herd immunity in the worst-affected regions. This will eliminate the virus from those regions, minimising the opportunity for mutations.

Poorer regions may be more vulnerable by virtue of being unvaccinated, but if the virus isn't circulating in high volumes, then focussing vaccination in the wealthier regions is still the better approach.

There is scope and justification now for trying to help poorer nations that are badly hit; India, Brazil, etc. But if most of Africa doesn't see many vaccines until 2022, that's not nationalism or inequality. It's merely focussing the vaccines where they're needed most.

But there are poor countries ( in relative terms with the western world ) with huge incidence rates ?

Again talking about a variant that escapes vaccines is pointless

It hasn't happened . Sure if we worried like that we would never leave our rooms

Multipass

is_that_so wrote: »

You're not being forced or coerced and it only becomes an issue if too few take it. That doesn't seem to be happening in any great numbers to date so feel free to choose to opt out.

People are being coerced by the travel restrictions - and don’t throw out the old ‘travel isn’t essential’ rubbish. I’m in my 40s, and the only reason I’ve taken the vaccine is the hope of being able to visit family without the expense of pcr tests, I can’t afford them. It’ll be the same story for all healthy people in their 20s and 30s. You can’t say that limiting travel isn’t coercion.

seamus

Sweet.Science wrote: »

But there are poor countries ( in relative terms with the western world ) with huge incidence rates ?

I mention that in my last line. Europe has exported and been exporting huge volumes of vaccine, I don't think there's much more we can do. We absolutely have to reach herd immunity. We can't pause the programme when we get to certain age cohorts.

But I would feel that we should be doing everything we can to funnel all "excess" vaccines to where they're needed. Our programme is on course to reach a full spread in the EU by around September. Instead of taking boosts in supplies to bring that forward, we should just stick to September as the goal and send the excess on to where it's needed.

AdamD

I think people are going to be in for a bit of a shock when Western countries continue to hoard supplies for booster shots etc. before sending excess on to poorer countries. I can't see it being a case of get everyone in the country done then ship everything else out.

is_that_so

Multipass wrote: »

People are being coerced by the travel restrictions - and don’t throw out the old ‘travel isn’t essential’ rubbish. I’m in my 40s, and the only reason I’ve taken the vaccine is the hope of being able to visit family without the expense of pcr tests, I can’t afford them. It’ll be the same story for all healthy people in their 20s and 30s. You can’t say that limiting travel isn’t coercion.

By the time we get to full vaccination of the 20s and 30s summer will be over. Even for those in their forties it could be at least mid July before they can be seen as vaccinated. In the meantime there's PCR and there is talk of those tests being subsidised. I don't expect the travel rules to go on indefinitely and we will be in a very different situation by September.

prunudo

is_that_so wrote: »

You're not being forced or coerced and it only becomes an issue if too few take it. That doesn't seem to be happening in any great numbers to date so feel free to choose to opt out.

Okay, maybe forced is too strong a word but when they link the opening up of society to 80% of people being vaccinated then yes, they are putting pressure on healthy younger people to take it. The same people who would fight the virus off naturally in a matter of days and no ill effects. The vaccine doesn't stop you getting or spreading the virus, just reduces your risk of getting seriously ill from it.
A lot of younger people are taking the vaccine for lifestyle reasons rather than health reasons and that, in my mind is wrong.

is_that_so

AdamD wrote: »

I think people are going to be in for a bit of a shock when Western countries continue to hoard supplies for booster shots etc. before sending excess on to poorer countries. I can't see it being a case of get everyone in the country done then ship everything else out.

I'd disagree on that. The approach to boosters looks like it may well be limited to vulnerable groups and the EU want to start diverting vaccines as soon as they can.

Sweet.Science

seamus wrote: »

I mention that in my last line. Europe has exported and been exporting huge volumes of vaccine, I don't think there's much more we can do. We absolutely have to reach herd immunity. We can't pause the programme when we get to certain age cohorts.

But I would feel that we should be doing everything we can to funnel all "excess" vaccines to where they're needed. Our programme is on course to reach a full spread in the EU by around September. Instead of taking boosts in supplies to bring that forward, we should just stick to September as the goal and send the excess on to where it's needed.

Yeah maybe you are right. I know the EU are probably doing more than the UK and the US with Covax etc and that a collapsing western economy could have bigger implications for these countries

It's just hard to process when you see healthy non risk people getting it now

I suppose all our issues in this country are frivolous compared to what's going on out there . That's probably why I find it hard to care

AdamD

prunudo wrote: »

Okay, maybe forced is too strong a word but when they link the opening up of society to 80% of people being vaccinated then yes, they are putting pressure on healthy younger people to take it. The same people who would fight the virus off naturally in a matter of days and no ill effects. The vaccine doesn't stop you getting or spreading the virus, just reduces your risk of getting seriously ill from it.
A lot of younger people are taking the vaccine for lifestyle reasons rather than health reasons and that, in my mind is wrong.

They do stop you getting and spreading the virus in the majority in instances though

is_that_so

prunudo wrote: »

Okay, maybe forced is too strong a word but when they link the opening up of society to 80% of people being vaccinated then yes, they are putting pressure on healthy younger people to take it. The same people who would fight the virus off naturally in a matter of days and no ill effects. The vaccine doesn't stop you getting or spreading the virus, just reduces your risk of getting seriously ill from it.
A lot of younger people are taking the vaccine for lifestyle reasons rather than health reasons and that, in my mind is wrong.

If the Brazilian experiment is right we may only need about 75%. It really doesn't matter why they do it just that they do. It's one of those do for your country moments really!

prunudo

AdamD wrote: »

They do stop you getting and spreading the virus in the majority in instances though

I didn't realise that had been proven.

PmMeUrDogs

Sweet.Science wrote: »

It's just hard to process when you see healthy non risk people getting it now

Do you know all these young people are healthy and low risk?

Plenty of people who are young have health conditions that put them at risk. There are so many invisible illnesses. I have one, I'm young, I'm fully vaccinated and even the majority of my friends assume I'm healthy because I don't broadcast my diagnosis in real life.

You have no idea who is and isn't healthy by looking at them.

is_that_so

Post-COVID immunity now 9 months according to HIQA. They've also made some comments about shots for the under 50s.

Today, the authority published its report which has found that the duration of immunity following Covid-19 infection should be extended from six to nine months post-infection, and it has issued this advice to the National Public Health Emergency Team (NPHET).

https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0603/1225750-covid-immunity-hiqa/

Sweet.Science

PmMeUrDogs wrote: »

Do you know all these young people are healthy and low risk?

Plenty of people who are young have health conditions that put them at risk. There are so many invisible illnesses. I have one, I'm young, I'm fully vaccinated and even the majority of my friends assume I'm healthy because I don't broadcast my diagnosis in real life.

You have no idea who is and isn't healthy by looking at them.

Great that you're vaccinated . I'm not talking about you though

snotboogie

prunudo wrote: »

Okay, maybe forced is too strong a word but when they link the opening up of society to 80% of people being vaccinated then yes, they are putting pressure on healthy younger people to take it. The same people who would fight the virus off naturally in a matter of days and no ill effects. The vaccine doesn't stop you getting or spreading the virus, just reduces your risk of getting seriously ill from it.
A lot of younger people are taking the vaccine for lifestyle reasons rather than health reasons and that, in my mind is wrong.

Young professional athletes in their prime have taken months to shake off the effects of Covid. Jayson Tatum, who is a top 10 NBA player took weeks off after getting covid and it took him months to get back to normal. Zhamzat Chimiav, a top UFC fighter, got covid in March and still can't fight as he is recovering.

You are also making the mistake of confusing the vaccines not preventing all transmission, with the vaccines not preventing any transmission. Vaccines vastly reduce your chances of catching and subsequently spreading covid.

Jim_Hodge

AdamD wrote: »

They do stop you getting and spreading the virus in the majority in instances though

Tell us more.

kleiner feigling

Multipass wrote: »

People are being coerced by the travel restrictions - and don’t throw out the old ‘travel isn’t essential’ rubbish. I’m in my 40s, and the only reason I’ve taken the vaccine is the hope of being able to visit family without the expense of pcr tests, I can’t afford them. It’ll be the same story for all healthy people in their 20s and 30s. You can’t say that limiting travel isn’t coercion.

Important to remember that with or without a vaccine, the PCRs may still apply.
My father in law is a doctor in the UK, fully vaccinated for weeks, and on his return to Ireland recently he had to take a PCR in the UK before coming to ireland, another one after a few days in Ireland, and he had to self-quarantine for 5 days. He and his wife are wondering why they even bothered to come home as everything is still closed here.

Other countries probably aren't as strict as Ireland, but all these requirments make travel extremely complicated, expensive and time-consuming.

AdamD

prunudo wrote: »

I didn't realise that had been proven.

Jim_Hodge wrote: »

Tell us more.

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

prunudo

AdamD wrote: »

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

Thanks you for sharing.

Dr. Em

kleiner feigling wrote: »

Important to remember that with or without a vaccine, the PCRs may still apply.
My father in law is a doctor in the UK, fully vaccinated for weeks, and on his return to Ireland recently he had to take a PCR in the UK before coming to ireland, another one after a few days in Ireland, and he had to self-quarantine for 5 days. He and his wife are wondering why they even bothered to come home as everything is still closed here.

Other countries probably aren't as strict as Ireland, but all these requirments make travel extremely complicated, expensive and time-consuming.

I'm confused by these sort of posts. Do people who are travelling not look at the restrictions in the destination country before going there? I had to travel during Feb and every step was a minefield of different regulations and restrictions in each jurisdiction (not even by country: regions had different rules). Have you looked at the restrictions to get into the UK from an amber-list country?
Ireland's entry restrictions have become more streamlined for the most part since February and they will continue to improve, but so many countries are struggling to put together the systems to recognise vaccinations from different countries.

Coming up to the 3 MILLION mark!

https://twitter.com/newschambers/status/1400441746882916359

Jim_Hodge

AdamD wrote: »

https://www.cdc.gov/coronavirus/2019-ncov/science/science-briefs/fully-vaccinated-people.html

Ok

Protection against serious outcomes like severe disease, hospitalization, and death.

A growing body of evidence indicates that people fully vaccinated with an mRNA vaccine (Pfizer-BioNTech and Moderna) are less likely to have asymptomatic infection or to transmit SARS-CoV-2 to others....However, the risk for SARS-CoV-2 infection in fully vaccinated people cannot be completely eliminated as long as there is continued community transmission of the virus.

Not quite what you claimed.

Coillte_Bhoy

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

We’re 16th in terms of lowest deaths per million in Europe, not even quarter final material.

We scraped out of the Group stages, thats a good tournament anytime for us in fairness

Silentcorner

Coillte_Bhoy wrote: »

We scraped out of the Group stages, thats a good tournament anytime for us in fairness

We are only near the half way stage.

We have a new health crisis waiting to kick off, the nearly 1 million people on the waiting list....there is going to premature death in all age groups.

We have to wait and see how much of the financial burden is placed on the tax payer and how many business will close once the supports are withdrawn

WE have to wait until a journalist of any description asks Leo Varadkar what he means when he says "new normal"

We have to wait until the 3 Government Ministers who have stated we need to "build back better" means, clarify if it is the health system they are talking about or what?

https://www.france24.com/en/asia-pacific/20210603-who-rules-out-new-hybrid-covid-19-variant-in-vietnam

WHO rules out existence hybrid variant in Vietnam.