Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

ypres5

iamwhoiam wrote: »

You might give a **** if you were 69 and had only one dose of Astra Zeneca . But yeh some of people only think of themselves and what affects them

The AZ vaccine is 66% effective against symptomatic illness which is more than enough considering the majority of people suffer only mild effects already, unless you're suggesting we stay locked down because a few people have a cough?

What Username Guidelines

What Username Guidelines wrote: »

This idea that "oh covid cannot effect the young and healthy" is very narrow-minded, ignorant and selfish. Of course 99.9%+ will be physically fine, but they're not thinking of the bigger picture at all, the one they mention in their own arguments - Lockdown has had a massive detrimental effect on the young and healthy, and anything that could potentially delay reopening or worse, wind it back, will of course effect us all. It might not mean a trip to ICU but it's a much larger problem than just personal health, or even the health of the vulnerable.

I have read this paragraph several times, and come to the conclusion that one or two good points are submerged beneath preachy cobblers. And inadvertently amusing, following "of course 99.9%+ will be physically fine" with a vague portent about the bigger picture. What are you implying exactly, that we grovel and beg to be liberated from the stranglehold of restrictions? Permit me to be blunt: no fupping way. It should be the other way round, government imploring forgiveness considering the damage they have inflicted on the public over the past fifteen months. And this self-loathing narrative about potential delay of reopening, give me strength. What the hell is stopping our esteemed leaders from acting immediately. Automatic deference towards single-issue NPHET and refusing to take responsibility, waiting on tenderhooks for the usual chapter and verse. Why not break out the kneeling mat while we're at it. Nearly 3 million vaccines have reached vast majority of elderly and vulnerable, lives simply cannot be placed on hold any longer when the risk of severe illness from Covid has diminished to virtually nothing.

What Username Guidelines

dockysher wrote: »

Please stop, coronavirus is over. People need worry about other things. Of course in good weather young people will enjoy themselves in groups and there deadrite. Can people let coronavirus go, very little in hospital. Very little in ICU it really is time to focus on other thing, healthy wise and mentally

Please stop what? Discussing coronavirus?

I was making the point that it’s not necessarily just about the virus, it’s about our reactions, restrictions, etc. All massively entangled with one another. Too many people just look at it from a single point of view.

Personally I believe it’s coming to an end via vaccination, but end of last summer and pre Christmas, anyone who showed a hint of concern was branded a scaremonger. I’d much rather the government be cautious and informed as opposed to calling it early and messing it all up again. It’s a very delicate balancing act and getting it right will mean everyone can go back to work and hopefully stay in their jobs this time.

What Username Guidelines

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I have read this paragraph several times, and come to the conclusion that one or two good points are submerged beneath preachy cobblers. And inadvertently amusing, following "of course 99.9%+ will be physically fine" with a vague portent about the bigger picture. What are you implying exactly, that we grovel and beg to be liberated from the stranglehold of restrictions? Permit me to be blunt: no fupping way. It should be the other way round, government imploring forgiveness considering the damage they have inflicted on the public over the past fifteen months. And this self-loathing narrative about potential delay of reopening, give me strength. What the hell is stopping our esteemed leaders from acting immediately. Automatic deference towards single-issue NPHET and refusing to take responsibility, waiting on tenderhooks for the usual chapter and verse. Why not break out the kneeling mat while we're at it. Nearly 3 million vaccines have reached vast majority of elderly and vulnerable, lives simply cannot be placed on hold any longer when the risk of severe illness from Covid has diminished to virtually nothing.

How was the bigger picture part vague? I explained it’s not just about health, but the recovery of everything else. You go on in your post about wanting to open up. My point is that keeping an eye on variants is prudent while opening. We opened up twice before, once (in my opinion, in hindsight) too slow and once too fast. The government have handled it woefully, so of course they’re going to be conservative so as not to mess it up again.

Strumms

dockysher wrote: »

Please stop, coronavirus is over. People need worry about other things. Of course in good weather young people will enjoy themselves in groups and there deadrite. Can people let coronavirus go, very little in hospital. Very little in ICU it really is time to focus on other thing, healthy wise and mentally

There are people still contracting it, getting sick from it, dying from it...

So by what logic do you find that ‘Coronavirus is over’ ?

Deadrite ?

Rayne Wooney

wadacrack wrote: »

Some more detail on the Delta variant in the UK. It is pretty concerning tbh.

https://twitter.com/dgurdasani1/status/1400523953853108226

On the 28th February the UK had 6035 cases and 769 hospital admissions, or 13% of people with the disease needing a hospital visit. On 31st March, 4,052 cases and 269 admissions, 7%. 30th May, 3,111 cases 110 admissions, 3.5%

Today the UK had 5,274 cases and 49 admissions, or about 1% of those with the disease needing hospital care.

13% to 7% to 3.5% to 1% between February - now.

The cases are starting to trend upwards over there it seems mainly because of the schools, but I don’t see why these people are talking about grim situations, red alerts and DEFCON 5. It’s complete fear mongering. There is no danger looking at the figures above and I can see why they are continuing with plans to open up completely. I’m sure they’ll devise a way to deal with the schools that doesn’t involve locking the whole place down.

Deeper Blue

Rayne Wooney wrote: »

On the 28th February the UK had 6035 cases and 769 hospital admissions, or 13% of people with the disease needing a hospital visit. On 31st March, 4,052 cases and 269 admissions, 7%. 30th May, 3,111 cases 110 admissions, 3.5%

Today the UK had 5,274 cases and 49 admissions, or about 1% of those with the disease needing hospital care.

13% to 7% to 3.5% to 1% between February - now.

The cases are starting to trend upwards over there it seems mainly because of the schools, but I don’t see why these people are talking about grim situations, red alerts and DEFCON 5. It’s complete fear mongering. There is no danger looking at the figures above and I can see why they are continuing with plans to open up completely. I’m sure they’ll devise a way to deal with the schools that doesn’t involve locking the whole place down.

Leave your well reasoned arguments which are backed up by actual data out of the thread please, the only show in town here is hypothetical fearmongering from Zero covid lunatics on twitter.

is_that_so

iamwhoiam wrote: »

Still less protected than those who received an mRNA. One of the high risk groups is now less protected than much younger people . A bit annoying if we are honest

The best protection is no virus around. Vaccines do affect transmissibility and herd immunity will do the job. They also prevent serious illness, so at most the risk is the equivalent of a cold.

Strumms

Strumms wrote: »

There are people still contracting it, getting sick from it, dying from it...

So by what logic do you find that ‘Coronavirus is over’ ?

Deadrite ?

As they are from many other illnesses, including those illnesses late-diagnosed because of the pandemic.

We cannot be so myopic to only focus on COVID-19 patients. They are few in number, and it will remain that way.

This is called living with risk, the same principle we apply to every other facet of life - including illness.

There are some people > 60 years who have rejected the vaccine on conscientious grounds. That is their choice, and they have chosen to live with the consequences of their actions. Why protect them? They haven't asked you to speak out for them.

is_that_so

eskimohunt wrote: »

As they are from many other illnesses, including those illnesses late-diagnosed because of the pandemic.

We cannot be so myopic to only focus on COVID-19 patients. They are few in number, and it will remain that way.

This is called living with risk, the same principle we apply to every other facet of life - including illness.

There are some people > 60 years who have rejected the vaccine on conscientious grounds. That is their choice, and they have chosen to live with the consequences of their actions. Why protect them? They haven't asked you to speak out for them.

People will do what they do, including making lifestyle choices which put them at risk, but public health attempts to protect everyone. That so-called myopia is because of the novel nature of it and the potential risk to a very wide range of demographics. This will settle down as we learn more, use vaccines and therapeutics to control it and develop a better model of future response to such pandemics.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

People will do what they do, including making lifestyle choices which put them at risk, but public health attempts to protect everyone. That so-called myopia is because of the novel nature of it and the potential risk to a very wide range of demographics. This will settle down as we learn more, use vaccines and therapeutics to control it and develop a better model of future response to such pandemics.

Perhaps, but we must also not give way to hysteria and paranoia.

Israel has vaccinated the most per capita, and they are doing just fine.

The UK isn't far behind, and they are doing just fine.

I'm convinced that the Irish population is no more susceptible to the virus than the above and, for that reason, I'm confident we will be just fine, too.

So whilst we can think about the factors you raised, they no more need to be front and centre stage of every single day of our lives.

is_that_so

Japan have donated over 1m vaccines to Taiwan. Taiwan has about 500 cases daily and has vaccinated only about 3% of its population.
Japan itself is at only 4%.

https://www.reuters.com/world/asia-pacific/japan-provide-12-mln-doses-coronavirus-vaccine-taiwan-2021-06-04/

mollser

I'm sure its been done to death already, but honestly the governments / NPHET's absolute refusal to embrace antigen testing really needs to be investigated and properly assessed.

Catherine Martin was on Newstalk this morning talking about the safety procedures at the trial events - we have masks, social distancing and hand washing so no need for antigen testing she says, they are only used in other countries to 'collect scientific data'. Ciara Kelly rightly pressed her hard, saying they are used to prevent infectious people attending the event, and like actually spreading covid, and we're missing a serious tool here. Catherine outright dismissed, they're just used for collecting scientific data.

What actually is it that they refuse to entertain the antigen testing? It's beyond incompetence at this stage, it undermines actually everything they do and say imo

is_that_so

mollser wrote: »

I'm sure its been done to death already, but honestly the governments / NPHET's absolute refusal to embrace antigen testing really needs to be investigated and properly assessed.

Catherine Martin was on Newstalk this morning talking about the safety procedures at the trial events - we have masks, social distancing and hand washing so no need for antigen testing she says, they are only used in other countries to 'collect scientific data'. Ciara Kelly rightly pressed her hard, saying they are used to prevent infectious people attending the event, and like actually spreading covid, and we're missing a serious tool here. Catherine outright dismissed, they're just used for collecting scientific data.

What actually is it that they refuse to entertain the antigen testing? It's beyond incompetence at this stage, it undermines actually everything they do and say imo

It's NPHET and they are not completely against them. They are saying that they are best used in very controlled environments and with limited numbers. The likes of university campuses and schools are potential targets.

mollser

is_that_so wrote: »

It's NPHET and they are not completely against them. They are saying that they are best used in very controlled environments and with limited numbers. The likes of university campuses and schools are potential targets.

But they haven't approved them for use in either of those settings, or any other setting. If there's a tool that can prevent an infectious person entering a crowded event, then it should be used. There's either something nefourous going on or its sheer incompetence.

Regarding the JVM gig, I'm not sure what the point of holding a concert where everyone has to stay within a socially bubble - of course that will minimise the risk, but it's utterly pointless because its a trial for... nothing really, concerts won't work like that going forward!

is_that_so

mollser wrote: »

But they haven't approved them for use in either of those settings, or any other setting. If there's a tool that can prevent an infectious person entering a crowded event, then it should be used. There's either something nefarious going on or its sheer incompetence.

Regarding the JVM gig, I'm not sure what the point of holding a concert where everyone has to stay within a socially bubble - of course that will minimise the risk, but it's utterly pointless because its a trial for... nothing really, concerts won't work like that going forward!

Definitely not nefarious! I am also not sure it's true. Here's a report from March based on the task force which looked into them.

https://www.thejournal.ie/antigen-testing-5396967-Mar2021/

NPHET view them as a possible tool but how they might fit in or be used into the medium term has not been fully resolved.

rahmalec

I work in the cultural sector and, although I don't know much about these trial events, I do know that antigen testing use is pretty widespread in the sector. Nobody wants an outbreak because it would basically shut down the whole sector even more. I know for example (as I am involved in), that Cork Midsummer Festival is requiring any acts that have any indoor elements (like rehearsals, etc), that antigen testing is done (I don't know how frequent though).

I was also part of some recordings in March and April that were done for broadcast and for one of those, was tested 2 times as well as a pcr test (we also had to wear those kn95 masks at all times, keep distance, no congregating, etc). So it is taken seriously.

I think it's crazy to not test audience members for these trial events. It's a way forward for this industry, at least in the medium term.

is_that_so

Circle K apparently are planning to sell a 15m antigen test, Colm Henry has a view of it!

The HSE’s chief clinical officer, Dr Colm Henry has expressed concern about the accuracy of antigen tests due to be sold at petrol stations.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/antigen-test-accuracy-rate-does-not-sound-right-says-hse-clinical-lead-1.4584286

hynesie08

is_that_so wrote: »

Circle K apparently are planning to sell a 15m antigen test, Colm Henry has a view of it!



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/antigen-test-accuracy-rate-does-not-sound-right-says-hse-clinical-lead-1.4584286

A 97.6% accuracy rate doesn't sound right though.

mollser

That's a great post rahmalec - great to hear - its great to see certain industries being pro-active on this and doing what's best for them to keep them going and safe. We seem to be total outliers in the international community when it comes to antigen testing, it's bizarre! To say they aren't as accurate as PCR testing is completely missing the point. Everyone, like, everyone know's that, but also know's when they're appropriate to be used as an additional precautionary measure.

It's like they're afraid to back track now in case somebody queries why they weren't more widely deployed last autumn for certain healthcare settings.

They really are out to rubbish antigen testing at every turn, it's like a PCR cult! Catherine Martin's wishy washy dismissal of them this morning was really embarrassing and the icing on the cake for me.

mollser

mollser wrote: »

That's a great post rahmalec - great to hear - its great to see certain industries being pro-active on this and doing what's best for them to keep them going and safe. We seem to be total outliers in the international community when it comes to antigen testing, it's bizarre! To say they aren't as accurate as PCR testing is completely missing the point. Everyone, like, everyone know's that, but also know's when they're appropriate to be used as an additional precautionary measure.

It's not bizarre when you appreciate that Ireland is obsessed with "just seeing to be doing something"; an overly bureaucratic monster that eats regulations for breakfast.

funnydoggy

Tommy Tiernan, Hector Ó hEochagáin and Laurita Blewitt have been doing antigen testing since September 2020, to get together for their weekly podcast and they've been grand throughout. I'd say the tests are rampant across the country.

iamwhoiam

rahmalec wrote: »

I work in the cultural sector and, although I don't know much about these trial events, I do know that antigen testing use is pretty widespread in the sector. Nobody wants an outbreak because it would basically shut down the whole sector even more. I know for example (as I am involved in), that Cork Midsummer Festival is requiring any acts that have any indoor elements (like rehearsals, etc), that antigen testing is done (I don't know how frequent though).

I was also part of some recordings in March and April that were done for broadcast and for one of those, was tested 2 times as well as a pcr test (we also had to wear those kn95 masks at all times, keep distance, no congregating, etc). So it is taken seriously.

I think it's crazy to not test audience members for these trial events. It's a way forward for this industry, at least in the medium term.

My daughter works in the film industry in the UK and they are using anti gen testing for months now and have been safe and secure knowing this

PTH2009

I haven't seen one antigen test kit for sale anywhere

All for quick testing for places

First Up

PTH2009 wrote:

I haven't seen one antigen test kit for sale anywhere

How hard did you look?

Klonker

They have loads in Lidl. You'll probably have to ask for them at the tills though so you won't see them on the shop floor (that was the case in my local Lidl anyway)

First Up

On sale in most pharmacies.

py2006

Any whispers of us removing Portugal from the safe list like the UK?

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

Circle K apparently are planning to sell a 15m antigen test, Colm Henry has a view of it!



https://www.irishtimes.com/news/health/antigen-test-accuracy-rate-does-not-sound-right-says-hse-clinical-lead-1.4584286

Found it interesting how he described the PCR test as “our gold standard PCR test”. Almost comes across as defensive towards the antigen tests because they’re being sold privately and not by ‘them’.

First Up

Deleted User wrote:

Found it interesting how he described the PCR test as “our gold standard PCR testâ€. Almost comes across as defensive towards the antigen tests because they’re being sold privately and not by ‘them’.

Are you inferring that NPHET are making money from the PCR tests?