Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404973#Comment_118404973

Got it yesterday too. Feel weak but not fatigued. Am resting up all day to be sure as need to be over it by tomorrow

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405058#Comment_118405058

Sorry, added the bit about Denmark after you read/quoted, they also have the advantage that they don't share a land border with the worst performer in Europe (along with a better organised health system).

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405090#Comment_118405090

In your edited comment lies my chief complaint with this entire approach.

Universal and enforced lockdowns and restrictions make sense if we are all equally vulnerable, even then I am not going to advocate for them. We are not all equally vulnerable to this virus, that was established quite early on.

Personally, I would have preferred an entirely voluntary and guidance based system whereby people can restrict themselves if they are vulnerable instead of what we had which was criminalising basic human behaviour.

I don't deny that the state implemented rules were perhaps more effective than a voluntary system but at least we could still call ourselves a free society and we did not suppress individual choice for the best part of two years.

As I said before, that is my opinion and it won't be shared by all but an opinion is that and we are all entitled to those.

P.S. The UK is not the worst performer in Europe, at least by deaths/million. It is the 20th worst - https://www.worldometers.info/coronavirus/

Ireland has been the worst performer in Europe in terms of liberty and I do not think that this is something that can be ignored.

cheezums

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405060#Comment_118405060

you are not fully vaccinated until you've had a third shot due to the current variant, omicron, rapidly outcompeting all other variants and two shots not being very effective against it. how do you not know that? i'm not being smart but do you read up on what's going on at all?

cheezums

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405088#Comment_118405088

moderna third shot hit me like a ton of bricks almost exactly 24 hours after the shot. no energy and some headaches. lasted about two days.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405135#Comment_118405135

Ah ok. So goalposts and shifting comes to mind.

A few months from now you'll be justifying restrictions because not enough have taken their 4th shot.

Micky 32

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405075#Comment_118405075

Even Donnelly didn’t seem to concerned today, he was making a point about a big difference in hospitals compared to last year. They seem to optimistic about ICU numbers.

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405144#Comment_118405144

Oh yikes. Hopefully I somehow manage to escape that!

snotboogie

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404953#Comment_118404953

Ya for sure, I should have specified if you are diagnosed with covid via a PCR then you are at least 3 times less likely to end up in hospital. Even with this caveat I expect the actual multiple to be higher again given lingering delta hospitalizations.

podgeandrodge

Pat Kenny, in a quote in the Sunday Times today on new year resolutions - "The second thing is to get back on the Wicklow Mountains. I love rambling and hiking up there, and Covid has kept my wings clipped."

Have to say, whatever your risk acceptances on covid, I find it hard to figure why anyone could have prevented themselves going for a walk up the mountains because of Covid.

nullzero

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405064#Comment_118405064

This fella is famously an ectotherm...

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405221#Comment_118405221

Another of my chief complaints with the whole approach that Ireland took.

Prohibition of exercise outside of a 5km radius for many many months on end.

Outdoors in the mountains is a very low risk event for respiratory pathogen transmission. Universal travel restrictions deny access to large areas of uninhabited countryside where people can exercise freely without fear of covid.

As a hiker of 15 + years, I found it abhorrent that fast food was permitted but a solitary ramble was not.

As for this character, Pat Kenny - I would advise him to talk to someone about his problems. Sadly, I think he may have developed some.

bennyl10

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405060#Comment_118405060

Vaccines do not create immunity.

they never have.

particularly as re-infection is now a possibility “immunity” is not something we can achieve.

we can look to have a large amount of people who will not get very sick. That is the aim

Cork2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404973#Comment_118404973

only felt well yesterday after getting it Wednesday afternoon! Felt like death on Thursday! It’s only half a dose as well!

Cork2021

How far behind are we of London/Uk

https://twitter.com/coronavirusgoo1/status/1477638459171180544?s=21

Ah_well.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118404993#Comment_118404993

I have never said restrictions don't work or were never needed . Of course they did and were . There was no choice but to lockdown at the start of the pandemic. Indeed with captain hindsight we should have locked down quicker. Lockdown/restrictions avoided a lot more deaths and were essential pre vaccine . Crucially I am talking of restrictions post vaccine though. I agree we should have opened up in August instead of bizarrely waiting until the end of October. We should have had lighter restrictions earlier in summer too. At the moment can you tell me what the restrictions of closing hospitality at 8 is achieving? In my opinion our case numbers show that it is achieveing absolutely nothing. Omicron is so contagious that current restrictions on hospitality appear to be for show to me. These restrictions are damaging sectors and achieving practically nothing. Whether you wish to admit it or not this country has had much more prolonged restrictions than almost all other countries . When the window of time has opened up to unwind restrictions we have been painfilly slow to do so. I nor nobody else knows how this Omicron wave will play out and where hospitalisations will max out but if say we know we have peaked at the end of the month then we need to remove restrictions and remove them fast not in our abundance of caution manner . It's a sad state of affairs when you have to get a plane to England every 6 weeks just to feel like you are really living. I know that means different things to different people but that's how it feels for me

Bananaleaf

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405271#Comment_118405271

How long after Wed did you start to feel the worst?

72sheep

RTE has Stephen Donnelly today: "studies suggest that people are eight times more likely to end up in hospital with Covid-19 if they are unvaccinated". The implication, which is not explicitly confirmed, is that these people are overloading our hospitals. 

So this 8x is the only reason for recurring vaccinations of the mass population. 80% population is at negligible Covid risk statistically. Unvaxed are not killing grannies as current vaccines do not prevent spread (per latest from Holohan, O'Neill, Gates,...). There's Billions of euros riding on this 8x number but no-one has even tried to explain the extraordinary scenario whereby 10% of the population are dominating hospital beds with Covid. If we make a reasonable assumption that majority of the unvaxed are under 65 then this trends towards being unbelievable. Note Stephen's uses "suggest" - that means he's been told there's no explanation available.

Now let's round up those damn 5 year old transmission vectors ;-) 

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405278#Comment_118405278

Their cases took off mid-December so about 2 weeks behind.

glitterIsland

How hard is it to understand the public health guidelines - if you have symptoms - isolate yourself away from others? Or at least restrict your contacts. It's not OK to pass around whatever dose you have. I know someone who got negative antigen tests but she was a positive on pcr. She got a pcr because she had symptoms. This was before December and before it go tout of hand and before all of these rising cases and changes to testing criteria. You can't fully trust antigen tests. If you have symptoms, stay at home. I know many will argue against this but it's important. Just stop passing around whatever doses you manage to pick up.

Bananaleaf

Sorry if this has been asked a million times and I'm even more sorry if it starts a huge row, but just wondering why it is said that Covid cert is needed to dine/drink indoors?

Apologies if this sounds cheeky (I'm asking a question and then dictating how I want it answered 🙈) but I'm not asking to open an argument. It's just I was asked by someone and I didn't really know what to say.

I said that I thought that it was introduced at the start when they thought being vaccinated stopped you transmitting, but I had no explanation as to why it is still needed now.

Cork2021

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405319#Comment_118405319

The next morning, around 12 hours after

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405379#Comment_118405379

The simple answer is that all restrictions are about keeping the hospitalisation count down so the health service can keep functioning. The unvaccinated are disproportionately represented in those hospital beds (despite only being 5% of adults) so the passes keep them away from some (not all) locations where transmission is high risk, reduces their infection rate and thus reduces the numbers being hospitalised (there seems to be an exponential effect as the vax rate in a country drops, the hospitalisation rate goes up).

And again, vaccines do reduce transmission and reduce infection rates, they don't eliminate transmission or infection.

The current restrictions came in before Omicron, if we had 20,000 cases/day with Delta we'd be back in full lockdown by now as the hospitalisation rate per case with Delta was much higher. The restrictions will likely stay as is until they figure out, reliably (Christmas makes a lot of the data unreliable) what the new hospitalisation rate is and then either increase or reduce restrictions accordingly (hoping they drop the 8PM rule first). The schools will also open and then it will be 2 weeks of waiting for the data on the reopening to become available.

We'll also have new hospital treatments available in the coming weeks (Paxlovid) that should reduce hospitalisation length substantially and reducing the numbers needing ICU (early reading suggests that the pills need to be given in a hospital environment and the patient monitored, it's also contra-indicated for a few conditions such as those on blood thinners).

Stheno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405564#Comment_118405564

I thought Paxlovid was taken at home for five days? Am I mixing it up with something else?

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405579#Comment_118405579

You could be right, I may be mixing up the risks and those that need to be monitored:

Pfizer Covid pills for Covid symptoms may be risky with other drugs. (nbcnews.com)

Interesting that Paxlovid is a treatment using two drugs:

The Paxlovid cocktail consists of two tablets of the antiviral nirmatrelvir and one tablet of ritonavir, a drug that has long been used as what is known as a boosting agent in HIV regimens. Ritonavir suppresses a key liver enzyme called CYP3A, which metabolizes many medications, including nirmatrelvir. In the case of Paxlovid treatment, ritonavir slows the body’s breakdown of the active antiviral and helps it remain at a therapeutic level for longer.

Would be great if hospitalisation wasn't needed, but that would imply GP's prescribing it.

edit: it's a 30 tablet regime, so it's likely to be taken at home, also needs early diagnosis (5 days from symptoms) to be effective

A full course of Pfizer's treatment is 30 pills — taken as three pills twice daily for five days. The treatment includes a low dose of ritonavir, a commonly used HIV drug, along with an antiviral developed by Pfizer called nirmatrelvir.

Gusser09

Icu numbers remainong stable. We should be able to cope with another jump. Lets keep going.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405564#Comment_118405564

If restrictions are just about keeping the hospital count down so the health service can function then why don't we remove them when the numbers are insanely low like they have been for almost all of 2021 after January.

People would ultimately accept restrictions more if they were easily removed but they never are.

Multipass

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405379#Comment_118405379

To make life as unpleasant as possible for the handful of people left unvaccinated.

And to constantly remind the rest of us of this deadly virus that requires electronic ID to keep us ‘safe’

Strazdas

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405629#Comment_118405629

I think that may well happen this year. Covid numbers never dropped down into double digits at any point in 2021, so they may well have to devise a system that means 'living with Covid' and accepting that there will be hundreds of new cases every day.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118405604#Comment_118405604

The Guardian also has a good summary here that sticks to a lot of the detail:

Covid pills are ‘very promising’ – but what are the challenges in using them? | US news | The Guardian

Hopefully Ireland gets access soon (at least some of it is made in Cork):

Government seeks to get Paxlovid before other EU countries | Business Post

The Irish government is currently in “advanced negotiations” to independently acquire the Pfizer Paxlovid pill ahead of other European countries.