Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Stheno

CIARAN_BOYLE wrote: »

To me they are just showing they are too stupid to understand the answers that was explained publicly last August.

I can understand disagreeing but asking him to explain further is pointless.

The ECDC had not approved them back in August. Now they have and recommend their use as part of an overall testing strategy

They set the standard at 80% sensitivity and 97% specifity

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/options-use-rapid-antigen-tests-covid-19-eueea-and-uk
Yet we have Tony claiming they are not even 50% accurate and Phillip Nolan calling them snake oil.

Given that Tony is very fond of citing the ECDC when it suits his argument I'd like to know why his opinion varies so wildly from a European body with whom he frequently concurs tbh

TheDoctor

JRant wrote: »

The good doctor will not like that one bit.

King Holohan certainly won’t like being summoned by his subordinates

JP Liz V1

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1402690853693448196

JRant

Stheno wrote: »

The ECDC had not approved them back in August. Now they have and recommend their use as part of an overall testing strategy

They set the standard at 80% sensitivity and 97% specifity

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/options-use-rapid-antigen-tests-covid-19-eueea-and-uk
Yet we have Tony claiming they are not even 50% accurate and Phillip Nolan calling them snake oil.

Given that Tony is very fond of citing the ECDC when it suits his argument I'd like to know why his opinion varies so wildly from a European body with whom he frequently concurs tbh

They've also recieved testimony from an expert that counters Tony's narrative and are perfectly within their rights to get clarification.

is_that_so

TheDoctor wrote: »

King Holohan certainly won’t like being summoned by his subordinates

Only a committee running a commission of inquiry can compel people or witnesses to attend, normal committees can only invite people to appear.

is_that_so

JRant wrote: »

They've also received testimony from an expert that counters Tony's narrative and are perfectly within their rights to get clarification.

Not their right though to anything more than please come and see us.

Stheno

JRant wrote: »

They've also recieved testimony from an expert that counters Tony's narrative and are perfectly within their rights to get clarification.

Plus the chief scientific advisor to govt has recommended their use to help open the aviation sector

https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40282112.html%3ftype=amp

Beechwoodspark

Me personally, hell, I’m watching the daily figures like a damn hawk

I’m HOPING against hope that we can trust the system this time but man, I am no way naive about this situation

Be times I would love to say “pandemic over, done and dusted folks” then....

I switch on the international news and see that damn virus ragin’ thru Asia Africa and South America

How many mutations have there been the last few months?

Boardsies I hope and reverently want this cluster fcuk over with....

Believe me I do...

I just don’t fully buy into the “it’s all over folks” narrative quiet yet

Martina1991

Stheno wrote: »

The ECDC had not approved them back in August. Now they have and recommend their use as part of an overall testing strategy

They set the standard at 80% sensitivity and 97% specifity

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/publications-data/options-use-rapid-antigen-tests-covid-19-eueea-and-uk
Yet we have Tony claiming they are not even 50% accurate and Phillip Nolan calling them snake oil.

Given that Tony is very fond of citing the ECDC when it suits his argument I'd like to know why his opinion varies so wildly from a European body with whom he frequently concurs tbh

The claimed high sensitivity and specificity is always from a cohort of people with covid symptoms, suspected as having the virus, carried out in control conditions.

Sensitivity plummets when people perform tests themselves. It's uncontrolled and unreliable.

The number of people in hospital continues to fall.
The number of cases is even still steadily declining.

280,000 to 300,000 vaccines administered a week. Thats less and less people that will bother buying these tests when they're protected. The window for companies to sell their products is narrowing.

Theres just no need for mass uncontrolled antigen testing. It's a waste of money.

PTH2009

Eod100 wrote: »

30-39 year olds can register for vaccine from next week https://www.irishtimes.com/news/ireland/irish-news/vaccine-registration-for-people-aged-30-39-to-open-next-week-1.4588613?mode=amp

Finally, 31 myself and hoping ill be registered in a maximum 2 weeks time

Although a positive article, a bit of it is as negative as ever with all the supply issues etc

ElTel

is_that_so wrote: »

He has an ego and there's a level of stupidity and a complete lack of professionalism in taking a swing at what a country is doing.

Varying accuracy is why and he views PCR as the gold standard, a point he and the rest of NPHET keep repeating.

Indeed, but they are/were (at least in the briefing after the Lidl tweet when they answered questions at length) careful in their answers in dismissing the antigen tests by focusing on a single test with the sensitivity/specificity compared to PCR and highlighting how worried they are that ordinary Joe didn't take the sample properly.

They avoid talking about doing serial antigen tests/testing oneself over a number of consecutive days. DeGascun I think was the only one to acknowledge this in passing during the briefing.

They'd be better off producing a video guide for Joe on how to take a sample
and highlighting the benefit of multiple tests instead of insinuating that Joe will drop his guard after a negative test.

Stheno

Martina1991 wrote: »

The claimed high sensitivity and specificity is always from a cohort of people with covid symptoms, suspected as having the virus, carried out in control conditions.

Sensitivity plummets when people perform tests themselves. It's uncontrolled and unreliable.

The number of people in hospital continues to fall.
The number of cases is even still steadily declining.

280,000 to 300,000 vaccines administered a week. Thats less and less people that will bother buying these tests when they're protected. The window for companies to sell their products is narrowing.

Theres just no need for mass uncontrolled antigen testing. It's a waste of money.

What about antigen testing in airports or large events performed by professionals?

This fixation on people doing tests themselves is driving the wrong narrative in away from where they could be used as part of an overall testing stratwgy

JRant

Martina1991 wrote: »

The claimed high sensitivity and specificity is always from a cohort of people with covid symptoms, suspected as having the virus, carried out in control conditions.

Sensitivity plummets when people perform tests themselves. It's uncontrolled and unreliable.

The number of people in hospital continues to fall.
The number of cases is even still steadily declining.

280,000 to 300,000 vaccines administered a week. Thats less and less people that will bother buying these tests when they're protected. The window for companies to sell their products is narrowing.

Theres just no need for mass uncontrolled antigen testing. It's a waste of money.

But the suggestion is not to use them in an uncontrolled manner, merely apply them to controlled situation such as travel and large events. So it's a complete strawman to suggest mass uncontrolled use.

If rapid testing serves no purpose as we keep vaccinating large numbers I presume the same logic applies to PCR testing.

normanoffside

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/irishexaminer/status/1402690853693448196

This makes absolutely no sense.
Surely 100% of all cases are as a direct consequence of close contact with a confirmed case.

Otherwise how did they pick it up in the first place?

iamwhoiam

ElTel wrote: »

Indeed, but they are/were (at least in the briefing after the Lidl tweet when they answered questions at length) careful in their answers in dismissing the antigen tests by focusing on a single test with the sensitivity/specificity compared to PCR and highlighting how worried they are that ordinary Joe didn't take the sample properly.

They avoid talking about doing serial antigen tests/testing oneself over a number of consecutive days. DeGascun I think was the only one to acknowledge this in passing during the briefing.

They'd be better off producing a video guide for Joe on how to take a sample
and highlighting the benefit of multiple tests instead of insinuating that Joe will drop his guard after a negative test.

They made the same mistake about masks . They presumed it would be a problem because people would mishandle them and wear them all wrong . They should have made a video and campaign in how to wear them and how to handle them properly

Cork2021

Looking at delta variant, there’s 126 cases... how many of those can still spread it and have recovered? We’re in a good place. Just keep jabbing and we’ll be grand. Hopefully all going well I’ll be able to register within the next fortnight. (32)

Cork2021

normanoffside wrote: »

This makes absolutely no sense.
Surely 100% of all cases are as a direct consequence of close contact with a confirmed case.

Otherwise how did they pick it up in the first place?

Licking tables in closed pubs

iamwhoiam

normanoffside wrote: »

This makes absolutely no sense.
Surely 100% of all cases are as a direct consequence of close contact with a confirmed case.

Otherwise how did they pick it up in the first place?

I thought it was just me who thought that ! Then surely it didn’t land on 30% of cases from the sky or from behind a tree !

Stheno

iamwhoiam wrote: »

I thought it was just me who thought that ! Then surely it didn’t land on 30% of cases from the sky or from behind a tree !

I suspect its people who maybe have been to parties etc who don't feel comfortable fessing up tbh

mcburns07

normanoffside wrote: »

This makes absolutely no sense.
Surely 100% of all cases are as a direct consequence of close contact with a confirmed case.

Otherwise how did they pick it up in the first place?

Community transmission?

prunudo

PTH2009 wrote: »

Finally, 31 myself and hoping ill be registered in a maximum 2 weeks time

Although a positive article, a bit of it is as negative as ever with all the supply issues etc

I'm a week in since registering and still no word. Initially I had your similar optimism, now its just another line on the 'let down list' from the last 15 months.

Martina1991

Stheno wrote: »

What about antigen testing in airports or large events performed by professionals?

This fixation on people doing tests themselves is driving the wrong narrative in away from where they could be used as part of an overall testing stratwgy

I've no issue with tests being used in the designed settings by the proper personnel I.e. the purposes for which they were made.

Theres also the narrative that NPHET are against antigen testing. They're not. These tests have been used in certain settings and are being trialed in others before use. It's best to trial a service before shelling out money and resources that won't make a difference.

There is still the huge issue that antigen tests perform poorly in people with no symptoms.
Is it worth paying a fortune to test thousands of people before an event for the purpose of catching a handful of cases and letting a few more slip through the net anyway.



If a person pays for a ticket to an event or flight and comes from another part of the country with their partner or friends what happens when they test positive.

Their ticket, accommodation and plans probably ruined at the last hurdle. Given that an antigen test gives a positive result in a highly infectious person, is it wise to let in their close contacts who may be also infected.

There are test events this month for gaa and soccer.
If (and when) they have been found to be safe events, there will likely be no need for antigen testing because these events are safe and capacity will increase. Vaccination records will likely be enough to travel soon enough. No need for mass testing the vaccinated.

iamwhoiam

Stheno wrote: »

I suspect its people who maybe have been to parties etc who don't feel comfortable fessing up tbh

I suspect the same .

Martina1991

JRant wrote: »

But the suggestion is not to use them in an uncontrolled manner, merely apply them to controlled situation such as travel and large events. So it's a complete strawman to suggest mass uncontrolled use.

If rapid testing serves no purpose as we keep vaccinating large numbers I presume the same logic applies to PCR testing.

I've just replied to another poster there but yes. PCR will likely be rolled back from the community and remain in hospitals or GP settings.

PTH2009

prunudo wrote: »

I'm a week in since registering and still no word. Initially I had your similar optimism, now its just another line on the 'let down list' from the last 15 months.

Yep and you can count on the TDs hiding behind the issues saying 'its all supply issues, not our fault etc'

Jim_Hodge

prunudo wrote: »

I'm a week in since registering and still no word. Initially I had your similar optimism, now its just another line on the 'let down list' from the last 15 months.

A week since registering is nothing. I was three weeks and that's the norm around here.

stephenjmcd

prunudo wrote: »

I'm a week in since registering and still no word. Initially I had your similar optimism, now its just another line on the 'let down list' from the last 15 months.

A week ?? That's well within expected timeline

Bombastic93

Martina1991 wrote: »

There is still the huge issue that antigen tests perform poorly in people with no symptoms.
Is it worth paying a fortune to test thousands of people before an event for the purpose of catching a handful of cases and letting a few more slip through the net anyway.

Yes. Even if if only catches a few people, the point is that it would catch those with highest viral load i.e. it could prevent superspreader events where 1 person infects 10s or 100s.

Martina1991 wrote: »

If a person pays for a ticket to an event or flight and comes from another part of the country with their partner or friends what happens when they test positive.

Their ticket, accommodation and plans probably ruined at the last hurdle. Given that an antigen test gives a positive result in a highly infectious person, is it wise to let in their close contacts who may be also infected.

Unfortunate for them, but better to turn them away rather than let them in and potentially infect others who haven't or can't be vaccinated? If their close contacts have travelled with them but test negative, they most likely will not be contagious for another few days anyway if they have just contracted it.

prunudo

stephenjmcd wrote: »

A week ?? That's well within expected timeline

I know, but as I said, initially I was thinking oh great next week ill have word, then I'll have the jab etc etc, reading stories of people of similar age getting called quickly. Checking the app every few hours incase there was a glitch with the text system. Then to see that people a lot older are still waiting and now they'll be calling the 30-39s next week.
I've resigned myself to fact that it will happen when it happens and no point setting goals or deadlines of when I'll actually get a vaccine in my arm.

namloc1980

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Me personally, hell, I’m watching the daily figures like a damn hawk

I’m HOPING against hope that we can trust the system this time but man, I am no way naive about this situation

Be times I would love to say “pandemic over, done and dusted folks” then....

I switch on the international news and see that damn virus ragin’ thru Asia Africa and South America

How many mutations have there been the last few months?

Boardsies I hope and reverently want this cluster fcuk over with....

Believe me I do...

I just don’t fully buy into the “it’s all over folks” narrative quiet yet

Or maybe don't. Not good for the mental health to be this wound up over daily numbers.