Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Spiderman0081

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481799#Comment_118481799

😂

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118480064#Comment_118480064

Biggest take away from this us that 5 thousand halfwits thought it a good idea to upload meaningless results.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481935#Comment_118481935

You'll have to explain why they are meaningless and why these people are half wits

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481995#Comment_118481995

I wouldn't use that language but since the isolation advice is all available on the govt websites, what is to be gained by reporting a positive antigen?

Nothing, IMO.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482057#Comment_118482057

It's not all about individual gain, there's a civic duty element how's. The statistics are important for public health monitoring the wave.

Logging it doesn't cost anything. It is highly insulting to call people half wits who are simply trying to do the right thing.

Lumen

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482113#Comment_118482113

Why are the numbers important for public health monitoring?

We haven't had accurate case numbers for weeks and it doesn't seem to have affected anything.

If prevalence tracking was important we'd be doing random testing like the ONS is in the UK. We are not.

ACitizenErased

947 in hospital at 8pm. Up 7 from 8am this morning (fairly incredible for a Saturday) and 40 from last night.

89 in ICU, up 6 from yesterday.

MerlinSouthDub

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482166#Comment_118482166

Compared to 937 last Saturday night. We've pretty much peaked on hospital numbers.

cuttingtimber22

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482189#Comment_118482189

We are definitely through the peak on cases and hospital numbers. Lots to be encouraged about.

cheezums

interesting to see what political maneuvering will happen as this thing winds down. you could see leo trying to distance FG from the harsher restrictions and timelines over the last two years and try to show a contrast between the early FG period before the coalition. maybe even some strategic leaks over disagreements we weren't privy too. of course SF are too strong right now so it would be pointless, unless they want to go back into opposition for a while and let SF have a go in hopes they will be a shambles.

CruelSummer

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481303#Comment_118481303

So because your opinion is that opinion polls are ‘strongly in favour’ of these Certs - there should be no question of their use into the future. That’s an interesting view of democracy. You’re basically approving of the indefinite stripping of human rights off a number of people in Ireland based on their current or future vaccination status, as these certs expire if you don’t keep lining up for ‘boosters’. You know all this and are deliberately trying to play down what this means.

Funny that England and even Wales are dropping them except for larger events. Wonder how long it will take for NI to follow.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118480895#Comment_118480895

No, no. We shouldn't count any of that. It's not real. You should put that money straight in the bin if it's not earned by mining potatoes. As they say in places without large FDI inflows, it's all a myth.

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481693#Comment_118481693

I think you know you're lost when you start cherry picking data like that :) (and flagging the comparisons you know make your point worthless doesn't make your point less worthless).

And again, Sweden have also done worse economically than Ireland through all this, so if anything, they've become an example of "what not to do" along with the UK. I'm keeping to the 2020 data as Sweden mostly abandoned their herd immunity plans by 2021 and their data looks very similar to other countries since the vaccine rollout began (feel free to look at it though, you'll see Germany spiking high due to their low vax rate, for example).

You do have Belgium's mismanagement of care homes (as you highlighted) and the early humanitarian disasters in Italy and Spain which skews data as it's cumulative, if you take a look at the week by week data, you can see the issue that happened with the herd immunity attempts (I mean, the UK had a fairly OK 2020 once they abandoned Sweden's approach).

astrofool

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482308#Comment_118482308

We live in a representative democracy, as do most countries (California and Switzerland are 2 examples of direct democracies where the people can vote on multiple initiatives).

But look, follow your logic through, what referendum question would you ask?

What does holding a general election do when the issues at the top of voters minds are everything but the COVID certs? If there was an election tomorrow, which party would you vote for to enact your policies around COVID certificates?

You're on a discussion forum, discuss what the consequences of your plan of action would be? (I mean, from an opinion poll perspective, they would pass by a landslide greater than almost all previous referenda, is that what you really want?).

Danye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482113#Comment_118482113

It’s comical how self administered antigen tests are now included in our daily covid figures when previously, NPHET described these tests as “Snake oil”

Comical.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118480895#Comment_118480895

You've missed the point.

daydorunrun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481935#Comment_118481935

Yeah, I can fathom it, where is the gain? People saying it civic duty? Don’t buy it. It’s actually surreal and absurd that thousands of people are uploading antigen test to the HSE when only a matter of weeks ago they were called snake oil.

I’d probably agree with the half wit sentiment, but part of me wonders are these people don’t want things to go back to ‘normal’ what ever that is.

There is a chance these new metrics will be considered going forward, that can only really mean slower easing- some people I know dread a full and permanent move back to the office. Perhaps they have there full wits but ulterior motives?

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482312#Comment_118482312

Your humor is ironic. Its inadvertantly highlighting your lack of knowledge on GDP in Ireland.

It's not a "myth", the term is leprechaun economics in those other places "without large GDP inflows".🤣

Here's a fairly basic explanation in an article

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.politico.eu/article/ireland-gdp-growth-multinationals-misleading/amp/

Yet a handful of these multinationals are so big that, when they exploit Ireland’s low-tax environment with accounting moves, the nation’s GDP figures can be pushed to breaking point.

This first happened in 2015 when Ireland posted a gravity-defying 26 percent gain in GDP, the highest ever recorded in post-war Europe. Nobel-winning economist Paul Krugman dubbed it “leprechaun economics.”

Eventually it became clear that much of that 2015 gain reflected Apple’s decision that year to shift its intellectual property assets to an Irish domicile. The IMF calculated in 2018 that a quarter of Ireland’s GDP growth could be attributed to global sales of iPhones, with other Apple units paying the Irish unit to use its IP.

Bottom line is we are now €240,000,000,000 in debt, and we unnecessarily spent 2 years in severe lockdowns without any evidence they work.

Our access to credit in future is far from assured, our infrastructure is poor & we have already cancelled infrastructure upgrades due to funding issues.

Were about to leave the insulation of restrictions, to finally have an autopsy on our economy

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482415#Comment_118482415

What's comical is your wilful distortion. There was never an issue with positive antigen tests, but false negatives and poorly administered self tests.

This was in addition to people using antigens while symptomatic, getting false negatives and then continuing to do whatever activity they planned instead of getting a PCR test.

These concerns have been somewhat mitigated by Omicron being a less severe disease and the high levels of vaccination.

You've said already we have cancelled infrastructure projects. Which projects? Name even two or three. Since there are apparently so many of them cancelled, you should be able to find some.

Also our infrastructure isn't poor at present. It's pretty middle of the road in some areas and reasonably good in others.

The major lackluster area is urban transit and we mostly can't get that done due to inability to drive the projects rather than lack of resources.

What is your alternative proposals to the cautious ones we had? Play Russian roulette with COVID? Let the hospitals go into a genuine meltdown perhaps? Maybe I don't know let the old and weak die off in some laissez-faire dystopian type policy?

The only other alternative would have been to end the CTA and build a NI border and entirely suspend EU access, as it’s literally a case of if Britain and the EU gets a cold, we start sneezing.

None of those options come without huge costs.

We could go around and around in circles arguing which options were least expensive or had more benefits vs costs but the notion that we could have just done nothing and it would all be fine simply doesn’t add up based on the U.K. experience or many other EU countries’ experiences either.

It also ignores the fact that those measures, even if not the theoretical optimal based on hindsight and knowledge we didn’t have at the time are very likely to have kept it under control to some degree too.

Danye

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482538#Comment_118482538

Oh right. So there’s no such thing as false negatives now? That issue has been addressed has it?

People also undertook a course (over zoom of course) to ensure these self administered tests are done correctly now as well did they?

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482581#Comment_118482581

Of course it remains an issue, but I've already explained why that is mitigated as a risk now.

In any case, people are not being asked to upload negative tests, but positive ones. False positive antigen tests are much rarer

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482415#Comment_118482415

Well, the Lidl ones turned out to be snake oil and were pulled from the market?

It's also pretty pathetic to have people whining for months about not using antigen tests, and now the same people are whining about using antigen tests.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482655#Comment_118482655

It's also pretty pathetic to have people whining for months about not using antigen tests, and now the same people are whining about using antigen tests.

The same type of thing has happened for 2 years.

In this case posters were backing NPHET all the way about antigen not being accurate etc etc

Despite every other county in Europe using antigen since the start of the pandemic of course

Now, NPHET have done a complete 360 on antigen testing, and the same posters are just rowing in behind NPHET like they never were completely against antigen previously!!

Bonkers

Its a bit like the in hospital with/because of argument.

Seemingly as of this week, its now official that a significant number of patients are in hospital for other reasons, however it was a conspiracy theory for almost 2 years, despite the numbers never adding up

Danno

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482684#Comment_118482684

The saddest part of it all is these scaremongers will never be held to account for the devastation they yielded upon our society.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118481995#Comment_118481995

They are meaningless because they literally serve no purpose whatsoever. And anyone uploading these test results is just making it harder to get out from under these restrictions.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482960#Comment_118482960

It serves as a way of capturing data that would go otherwise uncaptured.

It may actually result in restrictions being lifted earlier as there will now be data for prevalence in the un-pcr tested cohorts. In the absence of data, conservative assumptions would have to be made.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118482994#Comment_118482994

We don't need to give them more data though. It only prolongs the inevitable slow removal of restrictions. Numbers outside of ICU are completely meaningless at this stage. Hospital admissions isn't even a useful metric anymore with so many people not being primarily treated for Covid after testing positive in there. And general case numbers are a nonsense now. We need to stop with the mass testing and reporting of these numbers. It ain't healthy for society to continually do this.

MrMusician18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483000#Comment_118483000

Who are you to say what data is needed? By having access to more data, it could facilitate a more rapid removal of restrictions because it allows us to be more confident that there is not a reservoir of disease in the cohorts that are not being PCR tested. The collection of this data has a low cost and could be useful - so why not gather it? More data is always better than less data.

If you don't like looking at the case numbers, turn off the news. But I'd rather our government wasn't flying blind, so the more data they have, the better the decisions they can make.

JRant

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118483008#Comment_118483008

You know what's worse than more data? Bad data.

That's all we are getting from case numbers now.