Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739677#Comment_119739677

It applied to the people interacting with those working in bars, restaurants. Not to them as employees. Similar principle behind pub smoking ban.

bad2thebone

I don't smoke or drink anyhow, in all honesty I wasn't hopping mad because I couldn't get into a bar or restaurant.

Actually I'd be honest with you. I got used to it , but when I could get back in it felt better.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119737556#Comment_119737556

You didn't answer the question.. Just deflecting.

I have made my opinion on certs and vaccine passports known in this thread many times but I suppose you being relatively new to Boards (??) you missed that? And apart from that I set put my stall in a post a few days ago which I think you saw as you thanked and replied to it.

As for villification, most people have no problem with people refusing to take a vaccine. But its those that seek to villify others who did, and spread fake science and misinformation about the vaccines that most people have a problem with.

Who is it that you think is going to bring a tribunal against government re vaccines or v. passports? You are very vague, and never provide links or anything concrete just your very subjective opinion. Which you are entitled to,😊but its bordering on paranoia /conspiracy theory sometimes.

The rates of hospitalisation of unvaccinated as opposed to those vaccinated last year especially when the disease was most severe show that some people made choices alright. Whether they were right or wrong as I said previously is for that person themselves and their families. But commonsense would lead one to think that if you end up severely ill because you don't take a low risk vaccine and end up in hospital infected you should question both your decision making and the information you were given which led to that decision.

This was what those passports were trying to avert, people ending up in hospital, like in many countries all over the world. Some countries only dropping them now

Petsonally I felt it was too much and too authoritative, that education to counter misinformation is the way to go, and those who chose not to get vaccinated were ultimately going to dig in and become entrenched and not listen any further once those measures became mandatory.

But I suppose in a crisis a pandemic causing death it was felt by those in charge that changing people's minds through education was just taking too long and more urgent measures needed to be taken.

Being on the receiving end in ICU at that stage, I do get that, even if it goes against my more moderate views.

An emergency calls for emergency measures.

They should have been dropped swiftly for social outlets and restaurants once the majority were vaccinated.

As fpr those who didn't believe there was any urgency!...

There are madeup science news outlets masquerading as the real deal with fake information mixed in with a nuance of real to try to look as if they are genuine. A lot of these sites have been branded fake and conspiracy for a reason even before Covid.

(If that upsets people then they maybe should look at why the reality of the situation makes them feel that way.)

Sometimes people genuinely don't know that it is fakery dressed up as science, fair enough, but that doesn't mean it should be left out there unchallenged, does it?

After all how would anyone know what is real and what is true if no checks or balances were applied?

There are international recognised standards for research and journalism, and those who rail against these standards need to show then why they need to be changed, if they really need to. This happens all the time but it is not done on the whim of a minority, at least not in civilised democratic societies.

There is a difference in posting opinions and in posting misinformation.

There is also a difference posting opinion and posting a factual statement backed up by research.

As to the claim regarding claims!..

Nothing that was done in Ireland re vaccine passports was way out of line internationally.

At the end of the day if anybody brought a claim against say the state, they would have to show that what was done was outside the norm of government reaction to the crisis.

Don't see how that would work as these passports were in worldwide use in much the same way?

dominatinMC

Jesus, the state of this thread. Echo-chambers, circle-jerks, and bans. Whatever happened to rational discourse.

And yes, I don't have to read it, but used to check-in intermittently for an update - which is pointless now.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739746#Comment_119739746

Fair enough I don't disagree with your opinion.

It's getting popular online lately about the vaccine passports and mandates being wrong and other things coming to fruition.

Thanks for the update, like myself you cover as much as possible in a response.

Do you not find it tiring ?

Anyhow I think I've gone a bit intense lately and need to read more.

Obviously I haven't read everyone's post's. But thanks for the update and explaining your position. And @odyssey06 who's helpful.

Anyhow guy's I'm bailing out for a while. I need a break. In the big scheme of things I should chill more lol

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119732418#Comment_119732418

" The statistics are laughable" !

From a poster who is trying to say that Central Africa had less deaths because they don't h ave the ability to provide statistics , now that's laughable .

Goodbye.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739797#Comment_119739797

No rational discourse permitted when it comes to COVID vaccines. Just constant shifting of the goalposts. Albert Bourla himself, CEO of Pfizer said they were 100% effective in preventing COVID 19 cases on 1st April 2021 (the irony). Their own trial data shows they knew they were nowhere near that effective. It's not a problem of itself of course, the flu vaccine is generally only about 50% effective. The issue is the dishonesty. And the people who just believe it like a religion. Many of the same people who distrust multinationals and capitalism seem to throw that healthy skepticism out when it comes to Big Pharma. It's literally the moving statues all over again.

I've had my primary course and booster. And will probably go for the bivalent vaccine. I've also had COVID 3 times now that I know of, one time 2 weeks after my booster. Then again I try to think rationally about most things.

Anyway this is a waste of time. Nothing will be learned by me or by anyone else as people are too entrenched.

US3

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119736897#Comment_119736897

This is completely false and you know it. The vaccine never stopped transmission, what is wrong with you?

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739935#Comment_119739935

Can you explain how someone not infected can transmit it?

Study after study into the vaccines showed significant protection against infection - for the period neutralizing antibodies were present. There are also studies showing the vaccinated people were clearing the viral load quicker from their system.

So how many instances of transmission has that prevented?

The #1 thing you could do to reduce your chances of getting infected and transmitting the virus was to get vaccinated.

A new CDC study provides strong evidence that mRNA COVID-19 vaccines are highly effective in preventing SARS-CoV-2 infections in real-world conditions among health care personnel, first responders, and other essential workers. These groups are more likely than the general population to be exposed to the virus because of their occupations... Results showed that following the second dose of vaccine (the recommended number of doses), risk of infection was reduced by 90 percent two or more weeks after vaccination... One of this study’s strengths is its design: participants self-collected nasal swabs each week for RT-PCR laboratory testing, regardless of whether they had developed symptoms of illness. 

https://www.cdc.gov/media/releases/2021/p0329-COVID-19-Vaccines.html

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40946759.html

95% of participants infected - and 2 out of 445 hadn't been vaccinated. So the answer is the vaccines prevented AT MOST 5% of infections. So 5% effective at preventing infection. That's the real effectiveness.

And the headline is ridiculous - there were only 2 / 445 unvaccinated in the study - so it was impossible for that study to say anything about severe illness as there was no control group.

Does this mean the vaccines are useless? No, of course not. It does say they are useless at preventing infection though.

Beasty

lee_baby_simms threadbanned

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739981#Comment_119739981

Where does does article state that they were infected and became infectious? When? With what variant?

It states they were exposed to the virus. That is all.

So to retcon this into vaccines didn't prevent infection versus different variants is false.

In making this claim:

 It does say they are useless at preventing infection though.

You are deliberately misrepresenting the contents of the article.

When this is in fact what the article says:

“Only two people out of the 445 had not been vaccinated, so the fact we are all vaccinated basically means we might have been exposed but the vaccine has helped prevent this from developing into a full-flight infection,” he said.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739804#Comment_119739804

Probably . Catch a wave !

You have been posting since early today so no wonder you are tired . I am only catching up now after replying to your post and now seeing all the other stuff .

I don't agree with you on " scientific racism " at all and while I totally agreed with the passport related to travel , healthcare and also the mask mandate in those areas . Anywhere vulnerable people have no choice but to be there . Funnily enough this was more to protect those who didn't take the vaccine than others who did , besides those vulnerable older ir immunocompromised .

You had a choice as a healthy person and discussed it with your doctor .

My issue is that people who are not as healthy and have been swayed to an anti vaccination position not from an educated perspective, but from listening to trash and misinformation which is aimed at them through their social media and from some who choose to gain economically and politically .

By all means make your own decision but hear the facts before the fiction , and then own it and move on , and accept whatever are the consequences good or bad .

One of the 'consequences ' at the time was that vaccine mandate everywhere .

@dominatinMC The extreme views that are popping up here are obviously because this appears to be the only one of a few threads still going so you will get all sides posting . This was usually a more moderate thread .

maude6868

I'm a teacher, unvaccinated, as in no shot at all. My daughter, a Retail Manager, unvaccinated. My niece, a nurse, unvaccinated. We all went to work mixing and mingling but we couldn't go to the hairdresser in a one on one situation. This, to me made absolutely no sense. It really seems to have been appeasement.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739930#Comment_119739930

They were much more efficient than the flu vaccine , and still are, although the latest variants are trying very hard to evade all vaccines ..

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740065#Comment_119740065

The hairdresser and vulnerable people who went to the hairdresser might have a different view.

bad2thebone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740044#Comment_119740044

Ill finish on this, at least the mandates are over.

Have a good weekend 👍

maude6868

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740091#Comment_119740091

Yes but the point I'm making is why weren't we forced to work from home, plenty administration work can be done at home and online teaching?

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740065#Comment_119740065

Sure a lot of us couldn't go places we wanted to for various reasons . I couldn't visit my young teenage son when he was acutely ill in hospital , nurse or not, as it happens .

I understand why, even if it was sxxx at the time .

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740116#Comment_119740116

Government health and safety guidance was that anyone who could work from home should have been working from home, depending on what restrictions were in place. The vast majority of people were. Schools were closed for long periods and online teaching was in place.

maude6868

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740138#Comment_119740138

I'm fully aware of all this but there was a period of time when I was back in school yet couldn't go to the hairdresser, restaurant or pub. I was waiting to be told either get the vaccine or don't return to work but that never came to pass, thank God. The point still is, we were in front of 100s a day and it was ok according to the Government guidelines yet couldn't get a one on one appointment with a hairdresser. That made no sense. My daughter and niece never stopped working, retail and nurse but again couldn't go to the gym. This was baffling to me at the time and still is.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740162#Comment_119740162

It reduced the risk to the hairdresser and people who went there.

The government could only do so much to reduce the risk while balancing other priorities. And there were measures in place in shops and schools to reduce risk. Measures such as masks and distancing which could not be applied in hairdressers or pubs \ restaurants.

In a workplace, school, the people you are interacting with are a known set of people daily.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119739981#Comment_119739981

It doesn't mean they are " useless at preventing infection " !

This is blatant attempt at misinformation And you the one in a previous post decrying rational discussion and moving of goalposts !

That is like saying condoms are " useless at protecting against STIs and pregnancy because they are ONLY 98% effective " !

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740001#Comment_119740001

They had antibodies to the virus. By definition this means they were infected. And as we all were told ad infinitum, this virus can be spread by asymptomatic people. So therefore they were infectious. And he has no way of knowing if the vaccine helped prevent "a full-flight infection" whatever that means. Plenty of people were infected pre vaccines and didn't develop "full flight infections". 95% infection rate is pretty much useless at preventing infection. That's the reality.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740202#Comment_119740202

NO it means they were exposed to the virus.

They could have been vaccinated in 2021, and infected 12 months later with Omicron. To conclude from that the vaccine is useless at preventing infection, without qualification, is a false and baseless statement.

So I repeat, where does it state that were infected and infectious?

You're actually contradicting the comments of the study's principal investigator, which you have zero standing to do so.

An interpretation you have zero qualifications to make, and you don't even declare it as your own interpretation.

So you are deliberately misrepresenting the contents of the article and spreading medical misinformation by stating your own interpretation of it as a finding of the article itself.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740202#Comment_119740202

When were they infected ?

At what stage in the vaccination process were they ?

Did the author of the research come to the conclusions that you are extrapolating here ?

Did they not say that it shows " how effective the vaccines were in preventing illness" ?

Why are you twisting the study to prove your own bias / agenda ?

This is classic distortion and misrepresentation of a study and it is a good study .

A bit desparate .

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740190#Comment_119740190

Also there were nurses who didn't get vaccinated for various reasons , who were redeployed if they were going to be at risk themselves or deemed a risk to vulnerable patients . Some did administrative work . Others were working in less acute non Covid areas . All had to regularly test afaik.

I had to step back from front facing duties as I am classed highrisk until I had my full primary course . Then I was back full on.

Every workplace were obliged to protect their staff and their clients and it wasn't black and white all the time .

This for you too @maude6868

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740226#Comment_119740226

They have to repeat the mantra about the vaccines being wonderful at preventing infection, otherwise it wouldn't get published. However the study's data says no such thing. This study can't say that because there is NO CONTROL GROUP. Plus since 95% of them were infected, it CLEARLY doesn't prevent infection.

And "at what stage". It says they were VACCINATED, so that's at least 2 shots.

This is pointless. You believe these vaccines reduce infections by a large degree, despite a mountain of evidence, and massive levels of infection in the population after the booster rollout. Massive levels - levels never seen in any flu season, despite them being "better" than any flu vaccine.

I'm done here.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119740214#Comment_119740214

So they were all vaccinated in 2021 and none of them got a booster? Come on. Cop on to yourself. Most of the booster rollout was just before Omicron. You are telling me in all seriousness that only 2 of 445 weren't vaccinated but of those 443 NONE of them got a booster?

95% of the participants had an infection at most 6 months prior to the study and practically all of them were vaccinated - this is FACT. It is not misinformation. This level is replicated across the world where it has been studied. The population data shows huge swathes of highly vaccinated and boosted, mask wearing socially distancing populations get infected. Portugal being a good example, but they are anywhere you care to look. By refusing to acknowledge this FACT you are the one spreading medical misinformation.

Most of those would have had a booster going on national stats, unless they are some weird group who got vaccinated but didn't get a booster - possible but highly unlikely.

Silentcorner

IT's all starting to fall apart really...

The only thing we can all agree on is that Covid is a nasty infection, probably one rung more serious than a bad flu, in terms of death rates and hospitalisations.

But that is not what we were led to believe was coming our way in Feb/March 2020.

We quarantined healthy people.

We imposed truly unhealthy lock down policies on the entire population, the price of which we are now paying in excess deaths and probably more we are not being told about.

We were then convinced that the vaccines would stop transmission...which we were, in Sept of last year Nphet were supposed to disband, they wouldn't till after February, Varadkar alluded to the fact that we endured more restrictions in the Spring/Summer of 2021 as way to drive up vaccination rate.

Natural immunity wasn't allowed to be spoken of, immunity from prior infection wasn't considered, we wouldn't allow children into cinemas with their friends if they weren't vaccinated...

These have been some very dark years in our history, I take no comfort in reminding people that at this very time our Government are preparing for the next emergency, which will involve restrictions...I wonder how many people will support those (if the restrictions are triggered)!!