Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

shesty

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051154#Comment_120051154

I suppose I am comparing to the last 2 years where it was wall to wall covid and nothing else.The headline now is an improvement on that, nothing like the last 2 years.

Course it would be nice to have no medical headlines, but that would mean that the health system was functioning, which would be too much to hope for.

joeguevara

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051759#Comment_120051759

I agree with you. I don’t look at any media updates at all and couldn’t tell you on a week to week basis any information about the numbers. Out of curiosity I decided to look. I think it’s a pick and mix regarding what is considered to be newsworthy. But it’s better if what is there is accurately commented. It doesn’t take away from the basis of peoples points but it also means that people don’t disregard that point because of incorrect information on the media agenda.

ICU down again to 25 and just a small increase in overall hospital numbers at a time when there are no discharges.

I think that ICU figure is like 75% down on this time last year.

If hospitals are busy, it's certainly not because of COVID.

Chris_5339762

I had it for the first time back in October, three people that I know had it for the first time in December. All are fine, but it is interesting that it is still getting people who hadn't had it up to now.

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120055435#Comment_120055435

They could well have had it asymptomatically before.

Chris_5339762

Oh completely, but it does seem a bit of a coincidence that all three of them had had it asymptomatically at some stage over the past two years, then all get it over Christmas this year at roughly the same time.

Spiderman0081

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120051154#Comment_120051154

This statement is correct now and was also equally correct all of 2020, 2021 and 2022.

kirk.

Seems like there's a fundamental problem here of not being able to keep non-serious cases out of the hospital's.

Shortage of GPs and them referring non urgent cases on to a+e

The out of hours services have been mothballed and are relatively useless anyhow .

I see another article on the independent today about the hospital crisis and they mention COVID rising...

That's actually factually incorrect. The numbers in hospital with COVID are a fraction of what they were last year and decreasing.

It's just their own incompetence now. A good starting point might be asking GPs not to close down for 10 days for Christmas holidays.

kirk.

It's mad really that flu and COVID are grinding the hospitals to a halt

It just shouldn't be happening

quokula

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058928#Comment_120058928

Flu has overwhelmed hospitals regularly in winter since long before covid appeared. This year there's a worse than average dose going around, along with covid and strep and others adding to the pressure so it's hardly surprising. And as much as people like to scream about HSE incompetence, the exact same thing is currently happening in the UK, France, Germany and most other countries you might look up.

Spiderman0081

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058968#Comment_120058968

One thing is for sure, these disastrous situations have absolutely nothing to do with the repercussions of lockdowns. No way, not a chance!

shesty

Our health service is teetering on an edge in the middle of the summer.

Now it is just plain overwhelmed and unable to cope.

Sure, the same problem is happening in other countries, but most of their health systems work for the other 11 months of the year.

Perfect storm it may be but it still doesn't excuse the state of our health service, for the amount of money put into it.

ujjjjjjjjj

Really not sure why anyone is surprised or anyone is not clear on what is going on here.

We lock down society for 2 plus years, wfh, masks, social distancing etc etc and go nuts over one respiratory bug.

Human immune systems only work efficently with constant exposure to bugs, bacteria, colds, rsv, flu etc etc. Let your kids play in the muck and dirt and cough over other kids and be coughed on....and guess what it builds their immune system. Adults no different.

We are simply seeing a population wide reduction in immunity due to our reaction to Covid.

And guess what we now have an overflow of rsv, flu, scarlet fever and got knows what else.

We caused this........anyone with the smallest shred of intelligence could have forseen this yet here we are........

Atlantic Dawn

I see the Beverly Hills 90210 XBB.1.5 Variant is hitting parts of the UK hard.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/health/article-11595367/Covid-variant-XBB-1-5-makes-HALF-cases-worst-hit-places-reached-area.html

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120062723#Comment_120062723

Kids weren't in a sealed bubble the last few years. They were in schools and creches, not all the time, but they were being exposed to bacteria and viruses. RSV and colds were circulating before this winter. There were the back to school sniffles in 2021.

Flu wasn't circulating but that was as much to do with what was happening elsewhere in the world as here. Many people got flu vaccines which would count as 'exposure'.

And whatever protection remains year on year from flu, cold, RSV must be quite limited given you can be re-infected in the next season.

Infection with Covid may actually impair your immune system, not build it.

https://www.theguardian.com/science/2022/nov/19/does-exposure-to-cold-and-flu-viruses-weaken-or-strengthen-the-immune-system

Why was Strep A so bad in 2017?

https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-022-04403-y

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120062723#Comment_120062723

Great post and so true. We see it through our own children. They catch everything in the first few years of their lives before their immune system develops and learns to fight.

I would much prefer to occasionally get sick and fight it off than try to avoid it for several years only to get wiped out by a bad dose with a weakened immune system.

kirk.

Varadkar said the same thing today

Presumably this is why masks mandates are not coming back plus they're a distraction from the uptake of jabs

"The Taoiseach said there were three viruses circulating – Covid, influenza and RSV – and immunity was not as strong due to previous Covid measures."

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0104/1344761-cabinet-politics/

That's one good thing about varadkar he's not a complete clown and calls it like it is not like these unions calling for masks when all it will do is perpetuate the problem.

Makes them look like idiots with their pseudoscience

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120063883#Comment_120063883

FG said they would end the trolley crisis in 2007 so Leo calling it unacceptable in 2022 is complete hypocrisy.

jimmybobbyschweiz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120062484#Comment_120062484

Too much crying wolf means the public just don't care anymore.

Remember in summer 2020 with a dozen new cases reported, yes "cases" and not ICU admissions, the CMO was saying he was "concerned"? If there wasn't such an hysterical reaction to COVID after lockdown one gave us time to see that actually no one under 40 seems to end up in hospital and our deaths are in the over 80s age category, then people might be a bit more sympathetic of the current situation in hospitals. Throwing the kitchen sink at a dozen new cases summed up the response for two years and I think the room has been lost, people largely just get on with their lives now even with the trolley crisis. Sad but understandable.

jimmybobbyschweiz

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120062924#Comment_120062924

It's all still Omicron and we know Omicron is not as serious so there is nothing to worry about here, certainly nothing requiring new measures on the general public. It would be different if we weren't still talking about Omicron.

kirk.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120063927#Comment_120063927

Nothing new there politicians making promises and being hypocrites

At least we don't have an idiot in charge

SF spokesperson too said the CMO would decide

That's what I want from politicians. Not RTE and bus and rail unions dictating policy

kirk.

FG saying there's 1000 more hospital beds than there was 3 years ago

SF saying there's less beds than there was in 1981

😁

Cluedo Monopoly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064233#Comment_120064233

A doctor on radio today said we had more Acute beds in 1981.

Hospitals stretched to their limits, says INMO (rte.ie)

Dr Hickey added that Ireland has 2.8 acute hospital beds per thousand of the population, while the OECD average is 4.3.

COVID numbers have been stable since Christmas.

Trolley numbers significantly dropped today.

It will blow over now that management and doctors are back from Christmas holidays.

Nice to see the Taoiseach admit that lockdown policies are the cause of this though.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120064351#Comment_120064351

I just hope that this is included in the inquiry that's due to take place this year.

We need to fully investigate and understand the failures of lockdown policies.

kirk.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2023/0104/1344761-cabinet-politics/

Government asking consultants to work weekends 🙂see how that flies

"Mr Donnelly said the situation was one that the Government had warned about for several months" 😁 who's warning who I'm losing track

RTE as usual dumb as a box of rocks just pumping out the hysteria nonstop

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120058873#Comment_120058873

Both GPs and Southdoc here are referring patients to hospital A&E even without seeing them, is everyone in A&E still being Covid tested?

ujjjjjjjjj

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120063252#Comment_120063252

Kids had massively reduced exposure to other kids during the Covid period, off school, reduced contact in school, social distancing, masks , hand sanitising and reduced social contact outside of school. Some kids will have spent a very significant percentage of their entire life in much reduced viral / bacterial exposure compared to pre Covid and have weaker and less developed immune systems, somewhat dependent of course on how neurotic their parents were / are. Expecting this to have no impact on the efficent operation of their immune system is just nonsense.

The two articles you quote both clearly point out that there may well be a link between broad spikes now and community wide reduced immunity. They just give an out to the Covid lockdown enthusiasts, by sowing some seeds of doubt. Neither publication by the way exactly covered themselves in glory during the last two years in terms of impartial reporting on Covid, both very much in the vanguard of lockdown and restriction promotion.

Why bad Strep A in 2017 ? because all of these viruses and bacteria wane and strengthen and mutate in our society as our immunity moves so you will always have fluctuations and bad years with specific bugs.

Issue now is we are seeing spikes in all the standard bugs, rsv, Strep, flu, colds,coughs etc all clearly pointing to a larger community wide reduction in immunity and the obvious elephant in the room is our ridiculous over the top reaction to covid which had caused this.

You can ignore or question the elephant if you want but it ain't going anywhere.

odyssey06

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120067350#Comment_120067350

There's a lot of leaps and jumps in that post.

Kids were getting exposed to colds and RSV. Kids were getting exposed to Covid. They were in school. They were in creches. These are far from sterile environments.

Look back at comments on boards and news articles about Septembers and Januaries before this one and you'll see surges in tests, sniffles. Some of it covid. Some of it other viruses.

It's not that their immune systems are weaker fundamentally. It's that this could be first time encountering a flu. And there are more kids who haven't encountered a flu. That's a different thing. No evidence that their 'first time' response is weaker.

There were very significant uptakes of flu vaccines, which in itself is an exposure to a virus which triggers the immune system.

You can get flu year on year, different strains, so the extent of any prior immunity from one strain to another is weak.

This was December 2019, flu worse\earlier than in previous year.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2019/1230/1103606-hse-flu/

Look back at late 2019, pre covid, and you'll see posts about an especially bad cough and chest infection going round.

Similarly, if Strep A was bad in 2017 for that reasons of natural variation, why does lockdowns have to be the reason why it is bad now?

So extent of this 'immunity debt' is very much debateable, as the linked articles show.

And even if immunity debt is playing a significant factor in this season, that does not necessarily show that the covid reaction was "over the top", given the alternative. Let more people catch and die of covid last year so we have less bad flu cases this year?