Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Gortanna

Gortanna wrote: »

But look at what they were saying. They were suggesting ways to deliberately deceive the public. I'll have to reread the emails, but I was horrified when I read them.

LOL

seamus

seamus wrote: »

That's cos I'm pretty sure you're not listening.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/varadkar-hopeful-majority-of-restrictions-will-be-gone-by-august-1190033

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/pandemic-welfare-supports-to-be-phased-out-from-october-onwards-varadkar-confirms-1.4576130

For the avoidance of doubt: August is the last month of Summer, not the first month of Autumn.

The Tánaiste Leo Varadkar has said he hopes life can return to relative normality by August.

That doesn't fill me with any confidence.

cml387

seamus wrote: »

Australia & New Zealand? Are they taking many Irish 20-somethings on speculatory visas at the moment?

Also...Russia, lol. Yes, I'm sure all those young people are champing at the bit to leave Ireland and go to a bastion of freedom, wealth & tolerance like Russia.

Fantasy land.

Israel?

Surely a popular destination with our young folk?

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Australia & New Zealand? Are they taking many Irish 20-somethings on speculatory visas at the moment?

Also...Russia, lol. Yes, I'm sure all those young people are champing at the bit to leave Ireland and go to a bastion of freedom, wealth & tolerance like Russia.

Fantasy land.

I did if it were possible to enter those countries. And it kind of is, but it's difficult to. But there is a long list of exemptions for Australia. I was reading about them the other day. It depends on the person's circumstances, but a person can apply for an exemption. I'm not sure about New Zealand.

But there are plenty of European countries people can emigrate to such as Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, and Finland. Spend about a year in one of those countries and then emigrate to Australia or New Zealand.

Is Ireland a bastion of freedom? Extremely difficult to leave the country, couldn't go beyond 5km of your own home for about a year, police everywhere, can't run a business, nothing for young people to do, no opposition ...

I mention Russia because of how different the attitude to Covid is among the people there compared with people in Ireland. There are lots of articles about how relaxed people are in Russia. The Russian avos is very interesting.

Avon8

seamus wrote: »

That's cos I'm pretty sure you're not listening.

https://www.newstalk.com/news/varadkar-hopeful-majority-of-restrictions-will-be-gone-by-august-1190033

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/politics/pandemic-welfare-supports-to-be-phased-out-from-october-onwards-varadkar-confirms-1.4576130

For the avoidance of doubt: August is the last month of Summer, not the first month of Autumn.

Those articles don't answer the OP's question at all. He asked about Nightclubs, indoor concerts and full stadiums. This is the 'normal' your article mentions...

"That doesn't mean that everything will be the same - but the vast majority of restrictions you would hope to see gone by August of this year.
"Kids going back to school as normal in September, college happening on campus in September/October - all those things."

Ive seen no even passing assurance that we'll be back to late-bars/nightclubs, indoor gigs and full stadiums in the Autumn or Winter. We're already seeing full stadiums around Europe. Denmark who have the exact same vaccine access we have had a completely full stadium just last night. Most of us believe we won't see that until 2022

seamus

Gortanna wrote: »

I did if it were possible to enter those countries.

Right. So what started this conversation off was someone saying that if they were a young person, they would be gone.

And you've proven my point exactly - there is nowhere to fvcking go. It's pure "grass is greener" syndrome. The entire planet is dealing with this pandemic, often in their own nuanced ways, and none are dealing with it perfectly.

The assertion that young people should up and leave right now because Ireland is so appalling, is incomprehensibly naive about what's going on across the entire world. Someone could only think that's a serious option if they've had their head completely buried in the sand. And they could only think that Ireland is a bad place to be if they've had a very sheltered life.

seamus

Avon8 wrote: »

Those articles don't answer the OP's question at all. He asked about Nightclubs, indoor concerts and full stadiums. This is the 'normal' your article mentions...

I never mentioned any of those things. I said the plan is for all or most restrictions to be gone in the Autumn. Poster said he'd heard nothing like that.

I posted articles. That's it.

Just because the articles don't mention whether your granny will be allowed to leave her catflap open, doesn't mean most restriction won't be gone.

eagle eye

TefalBrain wrote:

I'm guessing you are missing the point on purpose. Here's a clue, it's not just Covid that that age cohort are getting screwed over. They will the one's left holding the bag.

What bag, explain this in detail and how it differs from the 70's, 80's, early 90's and then end of the 00's and most of the 2010's?

Ficheall

Gortanna wrote: »

But there are plenty of European countries people can emigrate to such as Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, and Finland.

I would LOVE to move to Scandinavia (nothing to do with covid), but can't afford it

seamus

seamus wrote: »

Right. So what started this conversation off was someone saying that if they were a young person, they would be gone.

And you've proven my point exactly - there is nowhere to fvcking go. It's pure "grass is greener" syndrome. The entire planet is dealing with this pandemic, often in their own nuanced ways, and none are dealing with it perfectly.

The assertion that young people should up and leave right now because Ireland is so appalling, is incomprehensibly naive about what's going on across the entire world. Someone could only think that's a serious option if they've had their head completely buried in the sand. And they could only think that Ireland is a bad place to be if they've had a very sheltered life.

I listen 5 or 6 countries in Europe a person could emigrate to. You're focusing on Australia and New Zealand. Australia and New Zealand should be an option next year, but even now, if the person's circumstances meant they could, they could apply for an exemption to the ban on people entering the country.

Ireland is an appalling place for young people. But not just for young people.

Ficheall

Ficheall wrote: »

I would LOVE to move to Scandinavia (nothing to do with covid), but can't afford it

Cost of living is high there all right, but Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Finland and Denmark are all options for people to emigrate to if they could.

kleiner feigling

seamus wrote: »

Right...so they're going to go another country that hasn't been affected, is that it?

I'm on the edge of my seat here waiting for an answer. Where are they all going to go? Where is this marvel of a country where the economy has taken no economic hit, where covid restrictions are not in force, and where they're just crying out with no immigration controls for cantankerous young Irish monoglots to enter the workforce?

My sister lives in the states - goes clubbing, restaurants, concerts, travels around freely, no masks required, has been abroad 3/4 times in the past few months without any issues, and her work has been unaffected.
There are plenty of countries doing just fine, and have much more tolerable arrangements than what we have here.

kleiner feigling

kleiner feigling wrote: »

My sister lives in the states - goes clubbing, travels around freely, no masks required, has been abroad 3/4 times in the past few months without any issues, and her work has been unaffected.
There are plenty of countries doing just fine, and have much more tolerable arrangements than what we have here.

I actually think the US would be the best country to go because of its wonderful Constitution and because of how highly freedom is valued there. Not for nothing is it known as the 'home of the brave and the land of the free'.

And the best option in Europe would be Scandinavia.

The impression being given is that all countries are as bad as Ireland in terms of restrictions. But there are plenty of countries out there where life is normal.

munchkin_utd

Gortanna wrote: »

I listen 5 or 6 countries in Europe a person could emigrate to. You're focusing on Australia and New Zealand. Australia and New Zealand should be an option next year, but even now, if the person's circumstances meant they could, they could apply for an exemption to the ban on people entering the country.

Ireland is an appalling place for young people. But not just for young people.

youre right,
the tourism and hospitality industry across the continent is very stuck for staff.
English speaking irish students would slot into manys a job, probably most things except receptionist or fully blown customer facing jobs, and even then you could probably still be able to sell donots or coffee by just knowing the names of the products and how to say how much is owed.

It mightnt seem like it, the way Ireland is acting with regards to freedom of movement, but Ireland is still actually part of the EU and Irish citizens can work anywhere on the continent visa free.

seamus

Gortanna wrote: »

I listen 5 or 6 countries in Europe a person could emigrate to. You're focusing on Australia and New Zealand.

You included Australia, NZ and Russia (lol) on a list of desirable places where young people can emigrate right now in order to escape Covid restrictions.

That tells me that you haven't a bull's notion what's going on in any other countries, so I'm not going to waste my time forensically looking at the options.

Denmark has a considerably more restrictive set up than here, and judging by your posts on other threads, you'd have an aneurysm if Ireland introduce covid passports like the Danes have done. Yet you've included it on your list.

seamus

seamus wrote: »

You included Australia, NZ and Russia (lol) on a list of desirable places where young people can emigrate right now in order to escape Covid restrictions.

That tells me that you haven't a bull's notion what's going on in any other countries, so I'm not going to waste my time forensically looking at the options.

Denmark has a considerably more restrictive set up than here, and judging by your posts on other threads, you'd have an aneurysm if Ireland introduce covid passports like the Danes have done. Yet you've included it on your list.

You can dismiss Russia, but there's more freedom there than in Ireland. Restrictions are being tightened, but they appear to be mostly ignored based on articles written about Russia. There was an article in National Review a few months ago in which the journalist wrote that you'd wouldn't know there was a pandemic going on in Russia because of how relaxed everyone was.

Sweden, Norway, Finland, Iceland. All more or less restriction free. The US is more or less restriction free. It is simply a fact that there are plenty of countries out there that people could emigrate to.

Ireland didn't (yet) introduce vaccine passports, but it has made it almost impossible to leave the country, restricted people to within 5km of their home for a year, refuses to open clubs, allow spectators at matches without restrictions. I don't why anyone would defend Ireland.

munchkin_utd

munchkin_utd wrote: »

youre right,
the tourism and hospitality industry across the continent is very stuck for staff.
English speaking irish students would slot into manys a job, probably most things except receptionist or fully blown customer facing jobs, and even then you could probably still be able to sell donots or coffee by just knowing the names of the products and how to say how much is owed.

It mightnt seem like it, the way Ireland is acting with regards to freedom of movement, but Ireland is still actually part of the EU and Irish citizens can work anywhere on the continent visa free.

Absolutely. I think it's a no-brainer. A good life experience, good weather, beaches.

bucketybuck

Gortanna wrote: »

Absolutely. I think it's a no-brainer. A good life experience, good weather, beaches.

I don't want a beach. I just don't want a bunch of insulated older white men dictating how I have to live my life.

Lumen

Gortanna wrote: »

restricted people to within 5km of their home for a year

That restriction was for less than six months.

is_that_so

Klonker wrote: »

Not sure what your 'foreign travel was never on the cards this summer for many of us comment' is supposed to mean. Are you saying it was never going to be allowed or people just won't want to anyway? Nobody is trying to force people to travel you know.

That would be fully vaccinated, PCR is an option anyway if you do want to go. The monsters under the bed in NPHET advise we should holiday at home anyway.

cheezums

[Deleted User] wrote: »

https://www.google.ie/amp/s/www.irishexaminer.com/news/politics/arid-40299260.html%3ftype=amp

"The health minister, speaking in the Dáil today, made clear that a previous provision to allow the “draconian powers” to be extended for an indefinite number of times has been set aside."

The original plan was for there to be a provision to allow the powers to be extended an indefinite number of times.

Donnelly ended it as per your link. Thats the exact opposite of what you said initially.

ypres5

Avon8 wrote: »

Those articles don't answer the OP's question at all. He asked about Nightclubs, indoor concerts and full stadiums. This is the 'normal' your article mentions...

"That doesn't mean that everything will be the same - but the vast majority of restrictions you would hope to see gone by August of this year.
"Kids going back to school as normal in September, college happening on campus in September/October - all those things."

Ive seen no even passing assurance that we'll be back to late-bars/nightclubs, indoor gigs and full stadiums in the Autumn or Winter. We're already seeing full stadiums around Europe. Denmark who have the exact same vaccine access we have had a completely full stadium just last night. Most of us believe we won't see that until 2022

The sight of a near full stadium during the Danish game last night was the stuff of science fiction to me. Meanwhile we'll be letting 5k people into croke park. Pathetic stuff. But I guess there's some reason why it's alright in Denmark but not here according to the nphet faithful

is_that_so

hmmm wrote: »

I really feel for responsible young people who want to get vaccinated. This was predicted months ago when we started to see age restrictions put on vaccines. Other countries treat people like adults and allow them to take these vaccines, after explaining the risks - we seem to think it is cost-free to tell groups to continue in lockdown for an extra few months, and while I think it is unfortunately too late government (and society) have dropped the ball here.

September was always a date from the very start anyway. Where they got caught was in their keenness in March and April to throw optimistic numbers about as mean of keeping a lid on the frustration with the early days of the programme. Since then, a better summer and all the rest of that happy clappy stuff gave the impression that it would all be wrapped up very quickly and as soon as July.

Not sure what ball you imagine has been dropped. The programme has had over 30 revisions, primarily down to a single supplier, a supplier judging by this post you seem to be saying we should have used more. We are not the only country to take a very cautious approach to the non-mRNA vaccines but bottom line on them is a particular risk and unreliability of delivery.

Meanwhile these next 4-5 weeks are crucial as we move towards 50% fully vaccinated and a point at which there may be a level of herd immunity to help those still waiting.

bucketybuck

is_that_so wrote: »

Meanwhile these next 4-5 weeks are crucial

Hold firm.

BigMo1

What's the anticipated changes to be brought in following the next announcement early July? Surely with likely less than 40 hospitalisations by then and many more vaccinated we can be somewhat ambitious with this. I'd hope so anyway.

Dr. Em

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I did if it were possible to enter those countries. And it kind of is, but it's difficult to. But there is a long list of exemptions for Australia. I was reading about them the other day. It depends on the person's circumstances, but a person can apply for an exemption. I'm not sure about New Zealand.

But there are plenty of European countries people can emigrate to such as Sweden, Norway, Iceland, Denmark, and Finland. Spend about a year in one of those countries and then emigrate to Australia or New Zealand.

Is Ireland a bastion of freedom? Extremely difficult to leave the country, couldn't go beyond 5km of your own home for about a year, police everywhere, can't run a business, nothing for young people to do, no opposition ...

I mention Russia because of how different the attitude to Covid is among the people there compared with people in Ireland. There are lots of articles about how relaxed people are in Russia. The Russian avos is very interesting.

I'm crying laughing. Have a look at Norway's current entry restrictions. You basically can't get in unless you are a resident. I have family in Oslo and they were under a very similar lockdown until about three weeks ago. That has now changed, but no one can visit them - no one. There isn't the option for family members to go into a quarantine hotel (as Norwegian residents are required to do); non-residents are turned away at the border.

cheezums

cheezums wrote: »

Donnelly ended it as per your link. Thats the exact opposite of what you said initially.

But the government wanted to include that provision. The fact that they wanted to extend them indefinitely is pretty alarming.

Dr. Em

Dr. Em wrote: »

I'm crying laughing. Have a look at Norway's current entry restrictions. You basically can't get in unless you are a resident. I have family in Oslo and they were under a very similar lockdown until about three weeks ago. That has now changed, but no one can visit them - no one. There isn't the option for family members to go into a quarantine hotel (as Norwegian residents are required to do); non-residents are turned away at the border.

Okay, I should've checked about Norway. I was going on how things were a few months ago.

But the point I'm making is that there are plenty of countries out there that people can emigrate to. Even countries with restrictions, if the weather was good, there were nice beaches, good food, and so on, they'd still be worth considering. It's not just that Ireland has loads of restrictions. It's also the weather is awful for most of the year, the food isn't great, the cost of living is high, and there isn't an awful lot to do in the country because it's so small. But it'd be up to the person. Depends what they're looking for. But there are options for people. That's all I'm saying.

seamus

ypres5 wrote: »

The sight of a near full stadium during the Danish game last night was the stuff of science fiction to me. Meanwhile we'll be letting 5k people into croke park. Pathetic stuff. But I guess there's some reason why it's alright in Denmark but not here according to the nphet faithful

Yes there is a reason why it's alright in Denmark: all of those people had to present a covid passport in order to get in.

That is, they had to either be fully vaccinated, or have had a clear PCR test in the previous 72 hours. No passport, no entry, piss off home. Oh yeah you won't be able to go anywhere for a bite to eat or enjoy a pre or post-match beer either without your covid passport.

When Croke Park allows that 5k in, there will be no entry requirements except a self-certification that you don't have symptoms and haven't tested positive.

Now, we can argue the toss about which is a better approach, but it's apples and oranges.
The resistance to covid passports in Ireland would be huge; invasion of privacy, restriction of rights, power-trip Tony, etc; so unless that's the approach you want, then comparisons to Denmark are pointless.

I think most of us would just like to be in line with the rest of Europe.

We were the only country to have travel restrictions in place for essentially 6 out of 7 months. Most countries never had travel restrictions. Some had some for a short time.

We were the only country to close construction in 2021 as far as I am aware. And we already have a huge housing crisis with full capacity construction.

A week or two back we were the only country in Europe still not allowing outdoor dining.

The only country that ended up losing out on the Euro's as we wouldn't allow any sort of capacity.

The only country that I am aware of that are dead set against Antigen tests.


It is beyond frustrating watching the Euro's in packed stadiums over the last week and knowing that just a week or 2 back there was full on outrage here because people were drinking on South William street.