Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

kleiner feigling

Gortanna wrote: »

Ireland didn't (yet) introduce vaccine passports, but it has made it almost impossible to leave the country, restricted people to within 5km of their home for a year, refuses to open clubs, allow spectators at matches without restrictions. I don't why anyone would defend Ireland.

Given we are an Island nation, even the introduction of EU vaccination passes will add an additional layer of hassle for people coming and going and we don't have the alternative of land borders which other EU nations do.

ypres5

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I think most of us would just like to be in line with the rest of Europe.

We were the only country to have travel restrictions in place for essentially 6 out of 7 months. Most countries never had travel restrictions. Some had some for a short time.

We were the only country to close construction in 2021 as far as I am aware. And we already have a huge housing crisis with full capacity construction.

A week or two back we were the only country in Europe still not allowing outdoor dining.

The only country that ended up losing out on the Euro's as we wouldn't allow any sort of capacity.

The only country that I am aware of that are dead set against Antigen tests.


It is beyond frustrating watching the Euro's in packed stadiums over the last week and knowing that just a week or 2 back there was full on outrage here because people were drinking on South William street.

And before that there was the grinding of teeth over people hanging around the canals. It's gone beyond tedious listening to the same histrionics surrounding socializing, hospitality, sports, concerts etc from the same people for the past 15 months.

I encountered a neighbour who said he'd be alright if we locked down autumn and winter so long as we've the summer. It's enough to drive one to drink.

Avon8

seamus wrote: »

Yes there is a reason why it's alright in Denmark: all of those people had to present a covid passport in order to get in.

That is, they had to either be fully vaccinated, or have had a clear PCR test in the previous 72 hours. No passport, no entry, piss off home. Oh yeah you won't be able to go anywhere for a bite to eat or enjoy a pre or post-match beer either without your covid passport.

When Croke Park allows that 5k in, there will be no entry requirements except a self-certification that you don't have symptoms and haven't tested positive.

Now, we can argue the toss about which is a better approach, but it's apples and oranges.
The resistance to covid passports in Ireland would be huge; invasion of privacy, restriction of rights, power-trip Tony, etc; so unless that's the approach you want, then comparisons to Denmark are pointless.

Lots of misnomers here.

You're acting as if these things are happening concurrently. Denmark had a full stadium last night. The All Ireland finals are late August. We've had the same vaccine supply in both countries

It doesn't need to be PCR, it can be Antigen also. And theyre free of charge, in pop up centres provided by local government.

Lastly, you only need proof of a negative test or vaccination to enter an indoor bar. You may still be served outside without it. Here, we can't have indoor regardless.

I think the vast majority of people who wish to resume normal activities would swap our approach for Denmarks

ypres5

seamus wrote: »

Yes there is a reason why it's alright in Denmark: all of those people had to present a covid passport in order to get in.

That is, they had to either be fully vaccinated, or have had a clear PCR test in the previous 72 hours. No passport, no entry, piss off home. Oh yeah you won't be able to go anywhere for a bite to eat or enjoy a pre or post-match beer either without your covid passport.

When Croke Park allows that 5k in, there will be no entry requirements except a self-certification that you don't have symptoms and haven't tested positive.

Now, we can argue the toss about which is a better approach, but it's apples and oranges.
The resistance to covid passports in Ireland would be huge; invasion of privacy, restriction of rights, power-trip Tony, etc; so unless that's the approach you want, then comparisons to Denmark are pointless.

TBH Seamus I think even if we took the same approach as Denmark we'd still wind up with pathetic numbers allowed attend events considering the current administrations constant veering to the extreme in each and every matter.

Timmy O Toole

BigMo1 wrote: »

What's the anticipated changes to be brought in following the next announcement early July? Surely with likely less than 40 hospitalisations by then and many more vaccinated we can be somewhat ambitious with this. I'd hope so anyway.

Fully vaccinated people will be allowed meet 2 other households. Very ambitious.

kleiner feigling

Timmy O Toole wrote: »

Fully vaccinated people will be allowed meet 2 other households. Very ambitious.

Aren't people already doing this regardless?
I know I am, and most of my friends, family & colleagues are too.

is_that_so

kleiner feigling wrote: »

Aren't people already doing this regardless?
I know I am, and most of my friends, family & colleagues are too.

That's the public health message, some may well still be following it.

timmyntc

Timmy O Toole wrote: »

Fully vaccinated people will be allowed meet 2 other households. Very ambitious.

"Back to normal"

seamus

ypres5 wrote: »

TBH Seamus I think even if we took the same approach as Denmark we'd still wind up with pathetic numbers allowed attend events considering the current administrations constant veering to the extreme in each and every matter.

I disagree. And it's not because we're especially cautious, but because Denmark have a much better grip on the infection than we (and practically every else) do.

The introduction of the covid passport necessitated a sh1tload of testing to be done. The end result is that as of this week, statistically everyone in Denmark has been tested for covid eleven times since march 2020. That is, they've done 11 tests for every single Danish person.

We've done 0.95 tests per person.

While it did mean that their actual case numbers were quite high due to the amount of testing, it gave them much better insight into the actual infection. So many tests are/were being carried out at one stage that in effect, their entire population was being tested for covid every two weeks.

If we had that level of insight into the infection, I actually have no doubt that NPHET would make more nuanced and bolder decisions; because they'd have a lot more confidence about the course of the infection.

At our rate of testing, it's all modelling and predictions. We can only guess what's happening across the whole population.
At Denmark's level of testing, you can practically make decisions based on whole-population data rather than models.

Even in May when they were reporting 1,000 cases a day, they could be confident that they had detected all or most cases. Whereas we would have to extrapolate.

Which is another reason why comparing Denmark to Ireland is apples and oranges. Nobody else in the world has even come close to Denmark's level of testing. Which is bizarre given that we've known all along that the key to management was testing everything that moves.

ypres5

seamus wrote: »

I disagree. And it's not because we're especially cautious, but because Denmark have a much better grip on the infection than we (and practically every else) do.

The introduction of the covid passport necessitated a sh1tload of testing to be done. The end result is that as of this week, statistically everyone in Denmark has been tested for covid eleven times since march 2020. That is, they've done 11 tests for every single Danish person.

We've done 0.95 tests per person.

While it did mean that their actual case numbers were quite high due to the amount of testing, it gave them much better insight into the actual infection. So many tests are/were being carried out at one stage that in effect, their entire population was being tested for covid every two weeks.

If we had that level of insight into the infection, I actually have no doubt that NPHET would make more nuanced and bolder decisions; because they'd have a lot more confidence about the course of the infection.

At our rate of testing, it's all modelling and predictions. We can only guess what's happening across the whole population.
At Denmark's level of testing, you can practically make decisions based on whole-population data rather than models.

Even in May when they were reporting 1,000 cases a day, they could be confident that they had detected all or most cases. Whereas we would have to extrapolate.

Which is another reason why comparing Denmark to Ireland is apples and oranges. Nobody else in the world has even come close to Denmark's level of testing. Which is bizarre given that we've known all along that the key to management was testing everything that moves.

But it's not just Denmark, there were crowds at Amsterdam and Baku meanwhile Ireland lost it's games for the Euros because we're unique to the rest of the continent seemingly. Life in Ireland has been particularly joyless the past few months and the constant brow beating regarding outdoor gatherings and events isn't helping.

RGS

BigMo1 wrote: »

What's the anticipated changes to be brought in following the next announcement early July? Surely with likely less than 40 hospitalisations by then and many more vaccinated we can be somewhat ambitious with this. I'd hope so anyway.

From the Taoiseach himself no acceleration of measures:
Mr Martin ruled out any expedition of other measures out of what he called “due caution” as a result of the delta variant stain of Covid-19.
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40317041.html


Even with our low hospital/ICU numbers there is no ambition in government who it appears cant fart without permission of NPHET.

Larbre34

Dateline: London.

So, in spite of rising Delta variant cases in the UK and concern of vaccine hesitancy in certain regions, the UK government have agreed to allow 2,500 football VIPs into London, without any quarantine, in order that the Euro2020 Final not be moved out of Wembley.

I don't know about ye, but I'd take our Government and our NPHETs attitude to public health a hundred times over Boris and his sh1tshow.

FintanMcluskey

seamus wrote: »

I disagree. And it's not because we're especially cautious, but because Denmark have a much better grip on the infection than we (and practically every else) do.

The introduction of the covid passport necessitated a sh1tload of testing to be done. The end result is that as of this week, statistically everyone in Denmark has been tested for covid eleven times since march 2020. That is, they've done 11 tests for every single Danish person.

We've done 0.95 tests per person.

While it did mean that their actual case numbers were quite high due to the amount of testing, it gave them much better insight into the actual infection. So many tests are/were being carried out at one stage that in effect, their entire population was being tested for covid every two weeks.

If we had that level of insight into the infection, I actually have no doubt that NPHET would make more nuanced and bolder decisions; because they'd have a lot more confidence about the course of the infection.

At our rate of testing, it's all modelling and predictions. We can only guess what's happening across the whole population.
At Denmark's level of testing, you can practically make decisions based on whole-population data rather than models.

Even in May when they were reporting 1,000 cases a day, they could be confident that they had detected all or most cases. Whereas we would have to extrapolate.

Which is another reason why comparing Denmark to Ireland is apples and oranges. Nobody else in the world has even come close to Denmark's level of testing. Which is bizarre given that we've known all along that the key to management was testing everything that moves.

You forgot to mention Denmark officially endorse antigen testing

https://www.sst.dk/en/english/corona-eng/symptoms_tested-positive-or-a-close-contact/on-being-tested

We recommend that you take a PCR test if you have symptoms or if you are the close contact of someone infected with novel coronavirus. In other situations, it might be a good idea to take a rapid antigen test.

It’s actually amusing at this stage

NPHEt are becoming impossible to defend, some are really trying hard though

Dr. Em

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Okay, I should've checked about Norway. I was going on how things were a few months ago.

But the point I'm making is that there are plenty of countries out there that people can emigrate to. Even countries with restrictions, if the weather was good, there were nice beaches, good food, and so on, they'd still be worth considering. It's not just that Ireland has loads of restrictions. It's also the weather is awful for most of the year, the food isn't great, the cost of living is high, and there isn't an awful lot to do in the country because it's so small. But it'd be up to the person. Depends what they're looking for. But there are options for people. That's all I'm saying.

The pandemic has certainly shown the suboptimal living standards in a lot of Irish cities and towns, from quality of housing to green spaces to safe outdoor excercise spaces. Travel has been acting as a safety-valve for a lot of people. One good thing that could come out of this is a focus on improving livability. Nothing can be done about the weather, but the more flexible free time one has, the better the weather seems. There are a lot of things the govenment could have done better, but there are a lot of things we've gotten right too, and the grass isn't always greener on the other side.

Klonker

seamus wrote: »

I disagree. And it's not because we're especially cautious, but because Denmark have a much better grip on the infection than we (and practically every else) do.

The introduction of the covid passport necessitated a sh1tload of testing to be done. The end result is that as of this week, statistically everyone in Denmark has been tested for covid eleven times since march 2020. That is, they've done 11 tests for every single Danish person.

We've done 0.95 tests per person.

While it did mean that their actual case numbers were quite high due to the amount of testing, it gave them much better insight into the actual infection. So many tests are/were being carried out at one stage that in effect, their entire population was being tested for covid every two weeks.

If we had that level of insight into the infection, I actually have no doubt that NPHET would make more nuanced and bolder decisions; because they'd have a lot more confidence about the course of the infection.

At our rate of testing, it's all modelling and predictions. We can only guess what's happening across the whole population.
At Denmark's level of testing, you can practically make decisions based on whole-population data rather than models.

Even in May when they were reporting 1,000 cases a day, they could be confident that they had detected all or most cases. Whereas we would have to extrapolate.

Which is another reason why comparing Denmark to Ireland is apples and oranges. Nobody else in the world has even come close to Denmark's level of testing. Which is bizarre given that we've known all along that the key to management was testing everything that moves.

This is something we could possibly do if NPHET supported antigen testing but they are so against them that they didn't even bother reading the Ferguson report.

The bottom line is other countries want to get back doing things while minimising risk, NPHET don't want us going back to doing things until there is next to zero risk.

Denmark are a conservative enough country and yhye had 25,000 at the match the other night. I personally can't see us allowing that many at a match here until mid September, a full 3 months later.

Renjit

seamus wrote: »

The resistance to covid passports in Ireland would be huge; invasion of privacy, restriction of rights, power-trip Tony, etc; so unless that's the approach you want, then comparisons to Denmark are pointless.

Clinic where my spouse works, it's a majority anti-vax, anti-science colleagues. They somehow believe your natural immunity should be fine. And putting masks on will cause dental disease. When my spouse had fever post vax, they were indirectly making fun of it :pac:

Klonker

Does anyone find it very quiet from cabinet the last 2 weeks? Simon Harris has been out the last few days on antigen testing for colleges but that's about it. A bit of talk from Martin, Coveney and Varadkar on the North but very little on covid. It seems they are happy for NPHET to take the brunt of the publics annoyance on antigen testing while the hide away and to be honest it's probably working.

CruelSummer

Klonker wrote: »

Does anyone find it very quiet from cabinet the last 2 weeks? Simon Harris has been out the last few days on antigen testing for colleges but that's about it. A bit of talk from Martin, Coveney and Varadkar on the North but very little on covid. It seems they are happy for NPHET to take the brunt of the publics annoyance on antigen testing while the hide away and to be honest it's probably working.

Not for me it's not. The whole lot of them need to be thrown out of Government - and a credible alternative put forward. FG's nonsense of 'We support antigen testing but we're in Government and won't do anything about it' is window dressing to them hiding behind NPHET and FF.
The fact that Dr Holohan can suggest vaccine apartheid in this country for socialising and travel with zero response from our spineless politicians is proof enough for me that this shower of incompetents need to be thrown out on their arses. And I used to be a FG supporter.

Cork2021

Anyone else follow this guy?
Has good figures and updates,
But this seems fairly pessimistic. I can’t see us having that level of cases and also it shouldn’t matter as much by then anyway especially with the vulnerable and older population vaccinated.

https://twitter.com/andrewflood/status/1405917806491803650?s=21

mloc123

Renjit wrote: »

Clinic where my spouse works, it's a majority anti-vax, anti-science colleagues. They somehow believe your natural immunity should be fine. And putting masks on will cause dental disease. When my spouse had fever post vax, they were indirectly making fun of it :pac:

Clinic? What type?

saabsaab

mloc123 wrote: »

Clinic? What type?

Hardly medical?

Gael23

Any numbers today?

FishOnABike

Sweet.Science wrote: »

People mostly emigrate to America / Australia

Life is fine over there

Apart from the small fact that you won't be allowed into either at the moment.

is_that_so

CruelSummer wrote: »

Not for me it's not. The whole lot of them need to be thrown out of Government - and a credible alternative put forward. FG's nonsense of 'We support antigen testing but we're in Government and won't do anything about it' is window dressing to them hiding behind NPHET and FF.

You're going to struggle to find one of those! A loss of a vote of confidence in the Taoiseach or a budget being voted down are the main two ways but Michael D could and would tell them to work it out. So you're stuck with them for at least another year and a half.

TheDoctor

Gael23 wrote: »

Any numbers today?

Numbers guy is having a long weekend

is_that_so

TheDoctor wrote: »

Numbers guy is having a long weekend

18 in ICU.

MerlinSouthDub

is_that_so wrote: »

18 in ICU.

Down to 15 as at 11.30 today

(From the dashboard - it's back to updating ICU and hospital figures every day)

ceadaoin.

Renjit wrote: »

Clinic where my spouse works, it's a majority anti-vax, anti-science colleagues. They somehow believe your natural immunity should be fine. And putting masks on will cause dental disease. When my spouse had fever post vax, they were indirectly making fun of it :pac:

If they've already had covid, then yes, their natural immunity is fine and probably even better and longer lasting than a vaccine. It's anti science to think immunity after infection doesn't exist.

is_that_so

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Down to 15 as at 11.30 today

(From the dashboard - it's back to updating ICU and hospital figures every day)

Isn't it great not to be too bothered about those numbers anymore?!

ceadaoin.

ceadaoin. wrote: »

If they've already had covid, then yes, their natural immunity is fine and probably even better and longer lasting than a vaccine. It's anti science to think immunity after infection doesn't exist.

The evidence seems to be the best immunity is vaccination after previous infection.