Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

PowerToWait

PowerToWait wrote: »

Could the fear and doom merchants not stick to the restrictions thread?

It’s hard work wading through dozens of pages of incessant negativity, from the same half dozen, on a thread which should be a source of hope now that everything is opening up due to the fantastic vaccination program.

Are you based in Ireland? What is opening up exactly? We’re talking about preventing business from opening…

Have a look at the rest of Europe. Hosting games in stadiums and all enjoying hospitality etc

Many of us called this months ago. I remember getting directed to the conspiracy forum when I said hospitality wouldn’t open fully until August earliest.

AdamD

Right I'll join the 'conspiracy theorists'. Its shaping up the same as last summer, they'll delay indoor dining (see pubs last summer), then there will be another reason - August bank holiday / schools returning, for it to be delayed again. Suddenly we're in Autumn and they haven't opened, there's worry of a 'winter wave'....


ICU and hospital numbers are plummeting, if you can't open them now, when can you?

shinzon

shinzon wrote: »

Shin

Do you ever have an opinion on what you post?

TheDoctor

Normal One wrote: »

36 in hospital, 13 in ICU according to Paul Reid. 3.9m vaccine doses administered.

Should stay closed until next year.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Ireland’s not called Hibernia in Latin for nothing. We have probably the worst weather for outdoor dining anywhere in Europe. It’s nice when it’s nice but it’s usually wet and cold.

I went out for a meal last night and it was, despite everything, a physically miserable experience and everything closed early and we were swiftly moved on (in less than an hour) from a pub by very brusk staff who just wanted table churn.

So you’ve both the contrast with many parts of Europe (including large chunks of southern England) where in Ireland you will have more issues with people needing to be indoors to eat or drink because the weather just isn’t suitable and you’ll have the fact that in on a lot of days the weather will drive people away.

We’re somewhat doomed on this topic as we really have ‘good’ weather that’s like a wet spring even a mild winter by many continental European or North American standards and that’s our summer.

The only places comparable are Scotland, parts of northern England and Western Iceland.

The east coast here is also much drier than the west and southwest. We are slow to admit that but it’s fact.

One of the guy who joined us for dinner last night is from France and he was utterly miserable the entire time shivering in the drizzle and going on about quitting his job and going home.

I don’t meant this as a depressing comment but I think we are living in cloud cuckoo land if we think either outdoor or indoor dining is suddenly going to work great here.

We need to get the vaccines completed but we also need to use the danish approach to cheap and cheerful antigen testing to facilitate access to restaurants and bars.

We also need to get over the outrage that maybe you might have to be vaccinated or tested to enter a high risk indoor, badly ventilated venue. Otherwise we are going to just have lowest common denominator, anti science brigade setting the agenda outraged at their inability to spread COVID, which they imagine is the sniffles.

We’re not being realistic.

It really is starting to look like we can kiss goodbye to any sort of normality in 2021. You can easily see how they'll play the schools card again in August and then we'll need another abundance of caution in Autumn/Winter.

I certainly don't see the return of nightclubs, gigs, big weddings/events, sold out Croke Park, no masks anytime soon.
We might eventually get extremely restricted indoor hospitality. (Table service, time limits, no music, curfews)

And sure who knows what the situation will be in 2022. Maybe we'll need to wait another few weeks while the elderly get boosters.

It gets even sillier now when you have people going North and leaving the country for normality...

klose

TheDoctor wrote: »

The cosmic ballet goes on

Does anyone wanna swap seats?

Klonker

Be interesting to see what NPHET will base their Delta modelling projections on as we have a lot of differences to where the UK a few weeks ago when Delta took off there.

Firstly we have a lot more Phizer compared to there AZ, which is better at protecting against infection. They have less uptake in the most vulnerable groups (over 75% of deaths in over 75s). Even when we have similar restrictions, people in Irelands movements/contacts are less as the follow guidelines more closely (ERSI have reports comparing attitudes in Rep and Northern Ireland at different dates. Hope all this is taking into account.

prunudo

prunudo wrote: »

What I can't understand is how the cabinet ministers are so detached from the mood of the public and reality of the figures. They must be surrounded by advisors who are building up the delta fear and painting everything in the most negative light possible.

I'm still waiting for some journalist, or public figure to shout stop to this madness. All I see is the usual nodding dogs and sheep in the media lapping up everything they're told.
Where are the critics or journalists who ask difficult questions and not be fobbed off by the usual political/isag guff.

But they're not detached from the mood of the public. The majority of the public supports what the government is doing, unfortunately. Poll after poll confirms that.

You'll be waiting a long time, unfortunately. There's no opposition in Ireland. The only country in the world in which that is the case.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

The view of antigen testing is frankly nuts. I mean does NPHET imagine people are going to jab themselves in the eye with swabs or what?

They seem to be taking the same that they took with masks early on, which undoubtedly caused us to have worse spread than was necessary.

There was basically no anti mask issue in Ireland and a very practical and pragmatic population, yet the medics and commentators were debating whether or not your average person would be able to put a mask on correctly. Maybe they would be useless etc.

We didn’t adopt masks until way after most of the continental European countries and even Trump’s America !

I can only assume they thought we would likely put the masks on our elbows or try to eat them or something.

It’s like we are being treated as a population of toddlers, when the reality is the public are very, very sensible and even a bit conservative on this topic.

bucketybuck

AdamD wrote: »

Right I'll join the 'conspiracy theorists'. Its shaping up the same as last summer, they'll delay indoor dining (see pubs last summer), then there will be another reason - August bank holiday / schools returning, for it to be delayed again. Suddenly we're in Autumn and they haven't opened, there's worry of a 'winter wave'....

"Those who don't learn from the past are doomed to repeat it".

iamwhoiam

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

The view of antigen testing is frankly nuts. I mean does NPHET imagine people are going to jab themselves in the eye with swabs or what?

They seem to be taking the same that they took with masks early on, which undoubtedly caused us to have worse spread than was necessary.

There was basically no anti mask issue in Ireland and a very practical and pragmatic population, yet the medics and commentators were debating whether or not your average person would be able to put a mask on correctly. Maybe they would be useless etc.

I can only assume they thought we would likely put the masks on our elbows or try to eat them or something.

It’s like we are being treated as a population of toddlers.

What I absolutely could not understand at the time was if they were so concerned why they didn’t make an information video at the time
They were concerned we wouldn’t put a mask on right so why not make a video and show it on all channels .
Equally now with antigen tests they are concerned we might do it all wrong so why now SHOW US HOW .
They are so quick to deem us all stupid so why not teach us dopes how to do it right instead of whinging that we are to stupid to get it

robbiezero

petes wrote: »

The choice of what exactly as a tax payer? Me as a tax payer with no clue of epidemiology should get to chose when we open up, is that what you're saying?

You also keep saying we shouldn't accept it, what do you suggest we do, what are you yourself going to do? Getting annoyed on an internet forum isn't really going to do much is it!

As someone else has said, the decision isn't in my hands so not going to get worked up about it, will still go to work every day etc.

Lucky you. Some won't, but I guess they shouldn't get worked up about it.

FintanMcluskey

petes wrote: »

The choice of what exactly as a tax payer? Me as a tax payer with no clue of epidemiology should get to chose when we open up, is that what you're saying?

You also keep saying we shouldn't accept it, what do you suggest we do, what are you yourself going to do? Getting annoyed on an internet forum isn't really going to do much is it!

As someone else has said, the decision isn't in my hands so not going to get worked up about it, will still go to work every day etc.

The country is being destroyed economically and socially and it’s citizens have suffered lengthy suppression like no other across the globe

It’s now planning further delays on relaxation despite it being mid Summer and we know that what gets delayed will be unlikely to open in Autumn or Winter

What harm

Less of the sob stories guys and get on with it

Wolf359f

Normal One wrote: »

36 in hospital, 13 in ICU according to Paul Reid. 3.9m vaccine doses administered.

They seem to be flying long with vaccination now.
66% of the adult population have a first dose, 38% fully vaccinated. Not far off the 80% target with 5 days to go.
Especially with the supply issues with J&J and having to bring AZ second doses forward 4 weeks (under the old plan all 60-69 wouldn't have been second dosed until July)
Obviously we'll miss the 80% target of first doses but we'll have more fully vaccinated as a result of the change, which with Delta, could be a good thing.

petes

robbiezero wrote: »

Lucky you. Some won't, but I guess they shouldn't get worked up about it.

Seriously? I could have written your response, it's the same response every time, what do you want me to do about it? Get annoyed on the internet, I will if it helps.

petes

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

The country is being destroyed economically and socially and it’s citizens have suffered lengthy suppression like no other across the globe

What harm

Less of the sob stories guys and get on with it

Typical response from you and completely expected, you have posted the same since day one and fair enough you've stuck to it. I've not mentioned anything about a sob story so stop making things up.

What are you doing about it other than venting your faux outrage on the internet?

PowerToWait

Deleted User wrote: »

Are you based in Ireland? What is opening up exactly? We’re talking about preventing business from opening…

Have a look at the rest of Europe. Hosting games in stadiums and all enjoying hospitality etc

Many of us called this months ago. I remember getting directed to the conspiracy forum when I said hospitality wouldn’t open fully until August earliest.

Have you been outside the door lately? Place is mobbed, Dublin City thronged with crowds enjoying ‘hospitality’.

Anyway my point is you have a thread dedicated to giving out about fictitious lockdowns and ‘look at Denmark’ every second post. Isn’t one thread enough or do you have to repeat the same ráméis here for twice the outrage?

Gortanna

Gortanna wrote: »

But they're not detached from the mood of the public. The majority of the public supports what the government is doing, unfortunately. Poll after poll confirms that.

You'll be waiting a long time, unfortunately. There's no opposition in Ireland. The only country in the world in which that is the case.

I was reading a thread on another forum about returning to the office and the general mood was that the holiday had to end eventually. I definitely think a lot of people are ok with the current situation. They haven't really being impacted yet.

For the politicians, SF are happy enough to be topping the polls by doing nothing really. FF will be thinking they'll leave the economic fallout to FG. FG will be thinking that FF will be blamed for the handling of Covid/economy.

So unfortunately nobody feels any real incentive to do anything other than wait.

robbiezero

petes wrote: »

Seriously? I could have written your response, it's the same response every time, what do you want me to do about it? Get annoyed on the internet, I will if it helps.

Email your nearest Government TD. Tell them, they were elected to lead a country not hide behind a one issue advisory group.

prunudo

[Deleted User] wrote: »

But they're not detached from the mood of the public. The majority of the public supports what the government is doing, unfortunately. Poll after poll confirms that.

You'll be waiting a long time, unfortunately. There's no opposition in Ireland. The only country in the world in which that is the case.

Lets see how that mood is in 2 weeks time when people realise their staycation is a waste of money as everywhere is still closed.

MerlinSouthDub

Klonker wrote: »

Be interesting to see what NPHET will base their Delta modelling projections on as we have a lot of differences to where the UK a few weeks ago when Delta took off there.

Firstly we have a lot more Phizer compared to there AZ, which is better at protecting against infection. They have less uptake in the most vulnerable groups (over 75% of deaths in over 75s). Even when we have similar restrictions, people in Irelands movements/contacts are less as the follow guidelines more closely (ERSI have reports comparing attitudes in Rep and Northern Ireland at different dates. Hope all this is taking into account.

I wouldn't hold out much hope. The last model Philip Nolan showed us back in May used some very high level assumptions for the R rate. It was a particularly light weight piece of work.

robbiezero

PowerToWait wrote: »

Have you been outside the door lately? Place is mobbed, Dublin City thronged with crowds enjoying ‘hospitality’.

Anyway my point is you have a thread dedicated to giving out about fictitious lockdowns and ‘look at Denmark’ every second post. Isn’t one thread enough or do you have to repeat the same ráméis here for twice the outrage?

Why don't you start your own thread where only positivity and praise of Government action (if any) is allowed?
This is the main Covid thread. Discussion of the ridiculous prospect of postponing the relaxation of restrictions in July is perfectly valid.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

iamwhoiam wrote: »

What I absolutely could not understand at the time was if they were so concerned why they didn’t make an information video at the time
They were concerned we wouldn’t put a mask on right so why not make a video and show it on all channels .
Equally now with antigen tests they are concerned we might do it all wrong so why now SHOW US HOW .
They are so quick to deem us all stupid so why not teach us dopes how to do it right instead of whinging that we are to stupid to get it

It sums up Irish doctors’ rather paternalistic and dated attitudes. You see the same thing in healthcare a lot of the time and a culture that’s only very recently moved away from the ‘god complex’ of senior consultants.

They also tend to take their lead from US data and American attitudes to absolutely everything tend to go down the route of contrarianism and conspiracy theory. So things like mask wearing became a political issue immediately. So are vaccines and so is everything.

Ireland’s population probably has more in common with Denmark and New Zealand than Denver and Minneapolis in terms of social cohesion, trust in science, facts and so on, but we’ll get presented with the US model anyway because we speak English and our medical community has more exposure to American discussion.

The medics seemed to be tiptoeing around masks when nobody (other than a handful of loons online) had any issue with them, but the loons online and the medics were both paying more attention to the USA than Irish reality.

I don’t think that issue is as prevalent in most of continental Europe.

We need to be embracing that social cohesion and pragmatism much more than I think we have been doing to-date.

FintanMcluskey

petes wrote: »

Typical response from you and completely expected, you have posted the same since day one and fair enough you've stuck to it. I've not mentioned anything about a sob story so stop making things up.

What are you doing about it other than venting your faux outrage on the internet?

What are you doing about me venting in the internet only venting on the internet about me venting on the internet?

Old Irish hypocrisy is alive and well

petes

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

What are you doing about me venting in the internet only venting on the internet about me venting on the internet?

Old Irish hypocrisy is alive and well

So, you are doing noting then, thanks for confirming. You should also look up the meaning of hypocrisy too before trying to use it in a sentence!

Anyway, I'm off to enjoy my day.

The fact this line below is being bandied about tells you there's a good chance this will happen.

"However, there are also concerns at senior levels of Government a delay may lead to further extensions, with the next window for more reopening not arising until as late as autumn".

How can they play with people's livelihoods like this? It's abhorrent, it's coercive control, simple as. Why does not opening on the 5th July mean a delay til August/September? That's not the 2 week delay the NPHET shills (let's be honest and call them what they are at this stage - the faux concern isn't fooling anyone) keep advocating in the wait and see approach. We'll be waiting and seeing until Christmas.

FintanMcluskey

petes wrote: »

So, you are doing noting then, thanks for confirming. You should also look up the meaning of hypocrisy too before trying to use it in a sentence!

Anyway, I'm off to enjoy my day.

Do that

Better than getting annoyed online because people are getting annoyed online

Couldn’t make it up

OwenM

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

I wouldn't hold out much hope. The last model Philip Nolan showed us back in May used some very high level assumptions for the R rate. It was a particularly light weight piece of work.

Nolan and the modelling group are a gaggle of total spoofers, they would publish the models they use rather than just the output if they weren't just making it up.

The ridiculous R numbers with meaningless ranges like 0.7-1.1 they have been putting out are evidence they don't have a scooby doo.

Ficheall

OwenM wrote: »

Nolan and the modelling group are a gaggle of total spoofers, they would publish the models they use rather than just the output if they weren't just making it up.

The ridiculous R numbers with meaningless ranges like 0.7-1.1 they have been putting out are evidence they don't have a scooby doo.

What have your own calculations revealed, Owen?