Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

ClosedAccountFuzzy

There are a number of issues though. Ireland tends to imagine itself as “the rebel with a cause” and “great craic” but in many ways we are quite conservative.

We’ve also a tendency towards island mentality exceptionalism and towards wallowing in depressing discussions that tend to be about reinforcing a very negative self image. I think is very much stemming from our 19th century history and hard times in the first half of the 20th century etc.

That strikes me as the psychological basis for where we are now.

We’re actually doing extremely well on the vaccine drive, but there’s a very large cohort on line and in commentary who will not see anything positive in any of that. We have to be the worst, things have to be terrible etc etc - only in Ireland etc etc

marno21

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1409452037541085186?s=21

Sam McConkey “must be very thirsty”.

thebronze14

marno21 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1409452037541085186?s=21

Sam McConkey “must be very thirsty”.

That is the most positive he's been during the whole pandemic! Further illustrates the utter madness of the decision if hospitality doesn't open

timmyntc

marno21 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1409452037541085186?s=21

Sam McConkey “must be very thirsty”.

We're through the looking glass here people

Klonker

marno21 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1409452037541085186?s=21

Sam McConkey “must be very thirsty”.

Was anyone listening to him on Claire Byrne? Did they introduce him as a member of ISAG? He hasn't been been in line with the rest of ISAG members for a few months now so I'm just curious if he's left.

Peter Flynt

All this worry about the Delta variant and the simple fact is that the virus will spread like wildfire through schools from late August.

NPHET will not be recommending closing schools then and hotels will still be serving indoors.

It seems that NPHET are happy to allow the virus to spread in environments they approve of.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Ireland is all about the consensus point moving. It’s the complete opposite to the USA in that regard both culturally and in terms of how politics is structured - proportional representation, multi seat constituencies etc etc

Just watch: you’ll see the consensus begin to gradually move towards opening. Then all of a sudden the more cautious voices will be on the outside edges and next thing you’ll see this whole thing feeling like ancient history and perspectives change.

We don’t really do the polarised debates thing at all. It’s all about finding a centre point and nudging it into different positions.

You don’t and you won’t get dramatic executive leadership by one person. It’s about knowing where the room is going and channeling that.

timmyntc

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

Ireland is all about the consensus point moving. It’s the complete opposite to the USA in that regard both culturally and in terms of how politics is structured - proportional representation, multi seat constituencies etc etc

Just watch: you’ll see the consensus begin to gradually move towards opening. Then all of a sudden the more cautious voices will be on the outside edges and next thing you’ll see this whole thing feeling like ancient history and perspectives change.

We don’t really do the polarised debates thing at all. It’s all about finding a centre point and nudging it into different positions.

You don’t and you won’t get dramatic executive leadership by one person. It’s about knowing where the room is going and channeling that.

But in Ireland the "consensus" (not that there ever really WAS one) is driven largely by the media. The media dictate what the public thinks, not the other way around.

So long as RTE are running doom-porn on the airwaves 24/7, the public will be afraid to reopen. Even if the alternative is economic ruin - because the media havent been telling us about how scary the impending economic impact will be.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Peter Flynt wrote: »

All this worry about the Delta variant and the simple fact is that the virus will spread like wildfire through schools from late August.

NPHET will not be recommending closing schools then and hotels will still be serving indoors.

It seems that NPHET are happy to allow the virus to spread in environments they approve of.

It’s a simple risk analysis: adults face bigger risks and the older they are the worse those risks get.

Vaccines are currently only approved for adults

So we can open adult mingling safely as the vaccines get into arms.

We’ll likely see a mRNA vaccine rollout to secondary school students this autumn and you may find approval happens for younger kids later this year.

Normal One

duffman13 wrote: »

Paul Moyna from Maynooth University this morning on Pat Kenny was very reasoned with him approach. Basically saying reopen, be agile, use all tools available which aren't currently doing. He was very middle ground and measured. Pity you don't have more like him on the airwaves

He also made the very important point that personal responsibility needs to be exercised when we do reopen; if you aren’t fully vaccinated then be cautious. He also said that he believes those people will be cautious, which I agree with.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

timmyntc wrote: »

But in Ireland the "consensus" (not that there ever really WAS one) is driven largely by the media. The media dictate what the public thinks, not the other way around.

So long as RTE are running doom-porn on the airwaves 24/7, the public will be afraid to reopen. Even if the alternative is economic ruin - because the media havent been telling us about how scary the impending economic impact will be.

The public and media in Ireland very much feed each other. Calls to Joooooeee Duffy etc etc don’t come from nowhere.

Irish media audiences always loved a “And now Mary is joining us to tell us about her brave battle with some awful illness …”

They love human interest misery. I remember an interview with the retired State Pathologist who seemed to find it quite unusual that Irish people treated her as a celebrity.

I think we just have a fascination with that kind of stuff here.

I mean other than in Dublin and Cork urban areas, all the local radio stations do death notices and people even call 1550 numbers to listen back to them in some areas and nobody finds that a bit odd?

seamus

Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

But just rocking up to a pub/restaurant and sitting inside? Not really.

The permanently terrified on Twitter making comparisons to Xmas reopening, people I've talked to in person saying, "I won't sit inside if I have the choice". There are a number of posters here talking about losing the plot and protesting if it doesn't open, but from what I can see they're the minority.

What I've been thinking all weekend and what I'm still leaning towards is that indoor will open, but the official guidelines will advise that only fully vaccinated people should be seated indoors, until the end of July at least. Which is a honour system solution; businesses will be obliged to ask, but have no ability to verify. But it's very typical of the way we've been doing things. People will just be trusted to make the right decision.

PmMeUrDogs

seamus wrote: »

Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

I think it depends on who you're talking to tbh. I work in hospitality and there's an enormous appetite among customers for indoor dining - we have daily arguments with multiple people demanding to be sat indoors.

bucketybuck

seamus wrote: »

Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

I am shocked that your own personal experience matches your own stated views on this matter.

gral6

seamus wrote: »

Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

But just rocking up to a pub/restaurant and sitting inside? Not really.

The permanently terrified on Twitter making comparisons to Xmas reopening, people I've talked to in person saying, "I won't sit inside if I have the choice". There are a number of posters here talking about losing the plot and protesting if it doesn't open, but from what I can see they're the minority.

What I've been thinking all weekend and what I'm still leaning towards is that indoor will open, but the official guidelines will advise that only fully vaccinated people should be seated indoors, until the end of July at least. Which is a honour system solution; businesses will be obliged to ask, but have no ability to verify. But it's very typical of the way we've been doing things. People will just be trusted to make the right decision.

This is not true at all, sorry it does not fit your narrative.

seamus

bucketybuck wrote: »

I am shocked that your own personal experience matches your own stated views on this matter.

I am not at all shocked that you've jumped in with pointless attempts at personal attacks rather than add anything to the discussion.

I'm also not shocked at all that you haven't read any of my posts but claim of course to know what my position is.

muddypuppy

seamus wrote: »

Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

But just rocking up to a pub/restaurant and sitting inside? Not really.

I'm surprised, but at least this explain why the pools still show support for the government. My circle of friends is mostly people between 25 and 35, and most of them aren't from Ireland, so they also can see what's going on in their home country. So far:
- they couldn't care less about weddings, nobody I know is getting married during covid anyway.
- events, yes.
- indoor classes for training, not really since everyone I know that work out was just happy with gyms/swimming pools reopening. And anyway in most gyms classes are already back with "zoned training", whatever that means.
- everybody loves to sit outside and hope this will last well after covid. But sometimes the weather is just not your friend and it's nice to have a fallback in case it rains/it's too windy. Plus outdoor space is really limited in several places.

Zebra3

FuzzyThinking wrote: »

The public and media in Ireland very much feed each other. Calls to Joooooeee Duffy etc etc don’t come from nowhere.

And they put the worst people on air.

bucketybuck

seamus wrote: »

I am not at all shocked that you've jumped in with pointless attempts at personal attacks rather than add anything to the discussion.

I'm also not shocked at all that you haven't read any of my posts but claim of course to know what my position is.

I have read your posts, you think it is no big deal that business are closed and that people should just suck it up. You also think that kids will be grand and haven't really been affected by the past year. Now you are saying that people you know aren't that bothered about seeing business reopen. Imagine that, who could have guessed.

I think there is a huge demand for indoor dining to be reopened. We simply don't have the climate for outdoors. A quick look at my weather app tells me that there is a big chance of rain on 5 of the next 9 days. And I recently went for outdoor dining on a fairly nice day... it was still very cold even with a hoodie on.

You need a really cracking day for outdoor dining to really work. And we don't get too many of those in Ireland. Or you can make your outdoor area as indoor as possible.

correct horse battery staple

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

They are the leaders now in cases in Europe yet again

I predicted several months ago on this forum that half arsed vaccinations with AZ will come bite them in rear with new variants.

And here we are

Cases don’t matter. It’s hospitalisations.

This is turning into ****ing casedemic.

seamus

bucketybuck wrote: »

I have read your posts, you think it is no big deal that business are closed and that people should just suck it up. You also think that kids will be grand and haven't really been affected by the past year. Now you are saying that people you know aren't that bothered about seeing business reopen. Imagine that, who could have guessed.

Imagine being this wrong.

I'm scarlet for your ma.

Your entire point is that covid isn't that bad, everything should have been open months ago, and 90% of this whole thing is Tony on an ego trip backed up by media fearmongering. Of course, it's not just because you want to be able to go back to the pub and sit inside. That's just incidental...

Anyway, another for the ignore list. No point in engaging in the same nonsense over and over.

yourdeadwright

Went into town ( Dublin ) for a few drinks on Saturday night with 4 friends,
We went to a place that has a very large out door area , one of those that feels like your inside so it was great ,

When we arrived we had to walk through the inside to get to the covered area at the back ,the place is connected to a hotel and the whole inside was full of people eating & drinking who where residents in the hotel, it was like a normal weekend except for no people standing around by the bar ordering drinks ,

How does covid know who is a resident, makes no sense at all ,

seamus

muddypuppy wrote: »

I'm surprised, but at least this explain why the pools still show support for the government.

Yeah, I spoke to a lot of people (compared to the last 15 months anyway ) over the weekend, and there's still a surprising amount of fear out there from the older cohorts; the ones who are already vaccinated.

I was surprised, I was expecting them to be all booking different restaurants and going to see people every other day, but there's still quite a bit of reluctance.

I think these were the age groups who've been found to put more trust in the traditional media, so obviously the discussion on variants is taking its toll.

This is most likely where the polls are finding this support for restrictions and the government response.

podgeandrodge

Leo has said a delay is "not inevitable".

ArthurDayne

seamus wrote: »

Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

But just rocking up to a pub/restaurant and sitting inside? Not really.

The permanently terrified on Twitter making comparisons to Xmas reopening, people I've talked to in person saying, "I won't sit inside if I have the choice". There are a number of posters here talking about losing the plot and protesting if it doesn't open, but from what I can see they're the minority.

What I've been thinking all weekend and what I'm still leaning towards is that indoor will open, but the official guidelines will advise that only fully vaccinated people should be seated indoors, until the end of July at least. Which is a honour system solution; businesses will be obliged to ask, but have no ability to verify. But it's very typical of the way we've been doing things. People will just be trusted to make the right decision.

I suppose though, the question I’d ask in response to that is: if indoor dining and pubs are reopened do you think those establishments won’t be popular? Are we really assuming that the majority of people would refuse to sit inside?

I think having this qualification of only vaccinated people being able to sit inside just unnecessarily over-complicates things. At this stage, anyone who remains afraid of getting Covid or is in a position of risk until they get a vaccine should not be going to restaurants or pubs anyway.

bucketybuck

seamus wrote: »

Imagine being this wrong.

Really? Lets have a quick look then. Here is what I said: "you think it is no big deal that business are closed and that people should just suck it up. You also think that kids will be grand and haven't really been affected by the past year".

And here are your own words:

seamus wrote: »

The imposition of pods, distancing and masks in school has had very little impact on kids.

seamus wrote: »

It's no biggie. The measures have had no major impact on kids at primary level anyway, and the secondary kids don't seem too fussed either.

seamus wrote: »

NPHET's focus is public health, not business. It's a pandemic, collateral damage to business is unavoidable. Keeping business afloat shouldn't come before public health.

I'm not unsympathetic, but there's fvck all point dwelling on it. We can rebuild when this is over. You can restart businesses, you can't make people undead.

seamus wrote: »

Nobody's going to die if you miss your flight tomorrow and you have to rebook. I know I'm sounding glib, but this is a pandemic. You have to just suck these things up and deal with it until this is over.

No, I wasn't wrong.

Avon8

seamus wrote: »

Gotta say, outside of boards I'm not seeing a particularly large thirst for opening casual indoor stuff. Weddings & events, yes, training, etc.

But just rocking up to a pub/restaurant and sitting inside? Not really.

You ignored my question last time so i'll ask again, what's your sample size on this? Again i'll reiterate in my case ive been out about a dozen times since reopening with a range of people I hadn't seen in ages, and without fail every single time it gets below about 15 degrees, or the wind starts whipping up, people are itching to be indoors. At that point someone's house that's relatively handy nearby starts being mentioned.

I don't see how anyone with even a passing presence on social media wouldn't have seen the clamour for indoor recently either. And bear in mind we've been pox lucky with the weather recently. Wait until there's widespread wind/rain on a Friday and Saturday night and that desire will be expressed ten-fold

FintanMcluskey

marno21 wrote: »

https://twitter.com/fergalbowers/status/1409452037541085186?s=21

Sam McConkey “must be very thirsty”.

Leo V could learn a thing or 2 about mood sensing from this chap lately

saabsaab

Avon8 wrote: »

You ignored my question last time so i'll ask again, what's your sample size on this? Again i'll reiterate in my case ive been out about a dozen times since reopening with a range of people I hadn't seen in ages, and without fail every single time it gets below about 15 degrees, or the wind starts whipping up, people are itching to be indoors. At that point someone's house that's relatively handy nearby starts being mentioned.

I don't see how anyone with even a passing presence on social media wouldn't have seen the clamour for indoor recently either. And bear in mind we've been pox lucky with the weather recently. Wait until there's widespread wind/rain on a Friday and Saturday night and that desire will be expressed ten-fold

Time to issue the patented Covid drinking suit.