Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

TefalBrain

Cina wrote: »

So just to get this straight, the Delta variant is more resistent to vaccines, which means yet again it's the older and more vulnerable who are most at risk from it, not young, healthy adults, yet it's the former we want to allow to dine indoors amongst each other.

Great logic.

No, that's not straight at all.

The vaccines work as well against the delta variant as they do any other.

is_that_so

SusanC10 wrote: »

Has the letter from NPHET to the Government been published? I would like to read it myself.

How will this indoor dining for vaccinated people only work? To me it makes little sense. So only people mid-40s upwards plus vulnerable plus HCWs can dine indoors. What about anyone under 40? What about families with kids?
Are they going to be looking for the paper card as proof of vaccination?

It also makes little sense when anyone staying in a hotel can dine indoors. The virus can't tell the difference between a hotel and a stand-alone restaurant.

What about all the other indoor activities? Is it that they are still masked indoors and dining can't be ?

Will they delay non-essential International Travel past July 19th ?
If they do, will it only be until mid-August (6 weeks after DCC becomes operational) ?

I have followed all the restrictions since the beginning of this Pandemic and I had been hopeful of the Vaccines even with our slow and confusing Rollout but this morning I just feel exhausted from it all.

It won't work because it is based on trust and who's going to stop customers coming into their premises? This is the wrong message entirely especially with the lottery-sized projections scaring the life out of people.

MerlinSouthDub

seamus wrote: »

Tracking it is quite difficult as the rate changes over time. Our total hospitalisation rate is 5.7%.

At the spike of our last wave (week 2 2021), there were 49,900 new cases recorded and 1,199 admissions to hospital that week. That's a hospitalisation rate of 2.6%.

At a time when nobody was vaccinated and half the country had gone to see their elderly relatives in the previous 21 days.

So yes, that 2% figure seems insane in context.

Vaccinations (even one dose, even with the delta variant) reduced hospitalisations by 90%. It's impossible to get to 2% hospitalisations on vaccinated people. So, I think to get to a 2% rate, you have to assume 100% of the people infected are unvaccinated. 2% sounds high given the age profile (under 35), and the fact those with a health condition should already be vaccinated.

bloopy

is_that_so wrote: »

It won't work because it is based on trust and who's going to stop customers coming into their premises? This is the wrong message entirely especially with the lottery-sized projections scaring the life out of people.

The lottery sized projections can only be to terrify the population.
They are figures which do not make any sense otherwise.
This is an insiduous game they are playing now.

is_that_so

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Because people had to wai till August (or whenever) rather than June to go out for a meal?

It will have a knock-on effect on everything else that is planned, at a point when we are now looking to extricate ourselves from the economic supports and work out what a return to normal life looks like. But feel free to imagine it's just about a meal in a restaurant.

TefalBrain

I have to say i'm dumbfounded and more than a little bit depressed by all this now. The absolute dumbness of people who are buying into this "just two more weeks" rubbish we are being fed is really worrying. When did peoples sense of critical thinking disappear? Was it pre covid or has this completely screwed folk up for good?

We have a media all singing from the same hymn sheet with literally nobody questioning what's happening to us.

iamwhoiam

I have done my bit , stayed in when I should , kept my distance when I should , worn masks , washed my hands and did everything asked of me .I got my vaccine when told and took what they offered to me . I waited to see my friends and we sat outdoors in the cold with fleece blankets
Now if they delay travel any longer than July 19th I am driving to Belfast and getting on a plane to see my daughter and they can just F off now .
This is now Bull****e and I am not playing along anymore with their nonsense

funnydoggy

TefalBrain wrote: »

We have a media all singing from the same hymn sheet with literally nobody questioning what's happening to us.

All the prominent journalists are making funny tweets about our current situation. Insulting.

Zebra3

funnydoggy wrote: »

Pints or food in a room apparently

This is fine if you book a hotel room, but it’ll wipe out humanity if you do any of that inside a pub.

Don’t question the experts, they’re following the science!!!

is_that_so

bloopy wrote: »

The lottery sized projections can only be to terrify the population.
They are figures which do not make any sense otherwise.
This is an insidious game they are playing now.

There are smaller numbers to terrify now, anger seems to be more the mood with this latest offering.

rob316

TefalBrain wrote: »

I have to say i'm dumbfounded and more than a little bit depressed by all this now. The absolute dumbness of people who are buying into this "just two more weeks" rubbish we are being fed is really worrying. When did peoples sense of critical thinking disappear? Was it pre covid or has this completely screwed folk up for good?

We have a media all singing from the same hymn sheet with literally nobody questioning what's happening to us.

Fear, stockholm syndrome, call it what you like.

seamus

is_that_so wrote: »

It won't work because it is based on trust and who's going to stop customers coming into their premises?

The same thing was said about masks when they were first introduced, and yet compliance was near-total from day one. There were no penalties for refusing to wear a mask for weeks, maybe even months. And businesses did stop customers from coming. Frequently.

What I'm finding a bit bizarre/amusing this morning is that so many people who were adamant that indoor socialising needed to be opened up, are completely refusing to consider any compromise on this. It's all or nothing apparently.

The facts are that we know indoor boozing is a gigantic risk factor. 60% of the adult population remains unvaccinated, and as a population we are still technically wide open to a big(ish) surge for at least another month. The 60-69 age group won't be protected until the end of July.

I would generally think that we should be OK for reopening on the 5th, but that it's a slight gamble. Opening for the vaccinated only until mid or late July is a reasonable compromise to allow businesses to resume, while still protecting the population.*

But for those shouting loudest the discussion has shifted from "open the pubs" to "no vaccine discrimination". One would be forgiven for thinking that this is nothing to do with saving businesses at all, and is more about the individuals' own opposition to restrictions in any form, or their own selfish desire to get back into their dirty little corner of the local boozer.

*Talk of not opening for the vaccinated until mid-July is off the wall

is_that_so

seamus wrote: »

The same thing was said about masks when they were first introduced, and yet compliance was near-total from day one. There were no penalties for refusing to wear a mask for weeks, maybe even months.

What I'm finding a bit bizarre/amusing this morning is that so many people who were adamant that indoor socialising needed to be opened up, are completely refusing to consider any compromise on this. It's all or nothing apparently.

The facts are that we know indoor boozing is a gigantic risk factor. 60% of the adult population remains unvaccinated, and as a population we are still technically wide open to a big(ish) surge for at least another month. The 60-69 age group won't be protected until the end of July.

I would generally think that we should be OK for reopening on the 5th, but that it's a slight gamble. Opening for the vaccinated only until mid or late July is a reasonable compromise to allow businesses to resume, while still protecting the population.*

But for those shouting loudest the discussion has shifted from "open the pubs" to "no vaccine discrimination". One would be forgiven for thinking that this is nothing to do with saving businesses at all, and is more about the individuals' own opposition to restrictions in any form.

*Talk of not opening for the vaccinated until mid-July is off the wall

On balance next week is a reasonable risk but IMO one we can live with. I'm less bothered about the delay and the manifestly unfair proposed compromise as I am with what we'll hear about this perceived risk at the end of this delay period. I think NPHET have hung themselves on the massive projections when it's really about more shots in more people.

Wolf359f

MerlinSouthDub wrote: »

Vaccinations (even one dose, even with the delta variant) reduced hospitalisations by 90%. It's impossible to get to 2% hospitalisations on vaccinated people. So, I think to get to a 2% rate, you have to assume 100% of the people infected are unvaccinated. 2% sounds high given the age profile (under 35), and the fact those with a health condition should already be vaccinated.

Back in early May, the hospitalisation rate for under 55's was 2.4%. Assuming most, if not all those hospitalised were unvaccinated, to model a 2% hospitalisation rate would have to be on cases among unvaccinated (unless they are assuming delta causing a higher rate?).
Only problem is, we're doing like 50k vaccinations a day, so the pool of unvaccinated people is getting smaller day on day.

FintanMcluskey

seamus wrote: »

The same thing was said about masks when they were first introduced, and yet compliance was near-total from day one. There were no penalties for refusing to wear a mask for weeks, maybe even months. And businesses did stop customers from coming. Frequently.

What I'm finding a bit bizarre/amusing this morning is that so many people who were adamant that indoor socialising needed to be opened up, are completely refusing to consider any compromise on this. It's all or nothing apparently.

The facts are that we know indoor boozing is a gigantic risk factor. 60% of the adult population remains unvaccinated, and as a population we are still technically wide open to a big(ish) surge for at least another month. The 60-69 age group won't be protected until the end of July.

I would generally think that we should be OK for reopening on the 5th, but that it's a slight gamble. Opening for the vaccinated only until mid or late July is a reasonable compromise to allow businesses to resume, while still protecting the population.*

But for those shouting loudest the discussion has shifted from "open the pubs" to "no vaccine discrimination". One would be forgiven for thinking that this is nothing to do with saving businesses at all, and is more about the individuals' own opposition to restrictions in any form, or their own selfish desire to get back into their dirty little corner of the local boozer.

*Talk of not opening for the vaccinated until mid-July is off the wall

Reading the first 3 paragraphs was thinking it was balanced enough until

and is more about the individuals' own opposition to restrictions in any form, or their own selfish desire to get back into their dirty little corner of the local boozer.

Fair enough back to form

Klonker

seamus wrote: »

The same thing was said about masks when they were first introduced, and yet compliance was near-total from day one. There were no penalties for refusing to wear a mask for weeks, maybe even months. And businesses did stop customers from coming. Frequently.

What I'm finding a bit bizarre/amusing this morning is that so many people who were adamant that indoor socialising needed to be opened up, are completely refusing to consider any compromise on this. It's all or nothing apparently.

The facts are that we know indoor boozing is a gigantic risk factor. 60% of the adult population remains unvaccinated, and as a population we are still technically wide open to a big(ish) surge for at least another month. The 60-69 age group won't be protected until the end of July.

I would generally think that we should be OK for reopening on the 5th, but that it's a slight gamble. Opening for the vaccinated only until mid or late July is a reasonable compromise to allow businesses to resume, while still protecting the population.*

But for those shouting loudest the discussion has shifted from "open the pubs" to "no vaccine discrimination". One would be forgiven for thinking that this is nothing to do with saving businesses at all, and is more about the individuals' own opposition to restrictions in any form, or their own selfish desire to get back into their dirty little corner of the local boozer.

*Talk of not opening for the vaccinated until mid-July is off the wall

60% are not unvaccinated. 60 - 69 are not unprotected. Stop with your ISAG scare stats.

Almost 70% of adults have one dose. Over 40% have 2 doses. A lot of people have natural immunity especially in the younger yet to be vaccinated group. The only people yet to recieve at least one vaccine is healthy under 40s and more and more are giving out every day. 20 people under the age of 34 died with covid up to May this year. All more than likely had underlying conditions considering almost everyone who died here had underlying conditions. These people would also be vaccinated as part of cohort 4 & 7.

Don't know how you think this is some sort of good or reasonable idea.

kieran26

seamus wrote: »

The same thing was said about masks when they were first introduced, and yet compliance was near-total from day one. There were no penalties for refusing to wear a mask for weeks, maybe even months. And businesses did stop customers from coming. Frequently.

What I'm finding a bit bizarre/amusing this morning is that so many people who were adamant that indoor socialising needed to be opened up, are completely refusing to consider any compromise on this. It's all or nothing apparently.

The facts are that we know indoor boozing is a gigantic risk factor. 60% of the adult population remains unvaccinated, and as a population we are still technically wide open to a big(ish) surge for at least another month. The 60-69 age group won't be protected until the end of July.

I would generally think that we should be OK for reopening on the 5th, but that it's a slight gamble. Opening for the vaccinated only until mid or late July is a reasonable compromise to allow businesses to resume, while still protecting the population.*

But for those shouting loudest the discussion has shifted from "open the pubs" to "no vaccine discrimination". One would be forgiven for thinking that this is nothing to do with saving businesses at all, and is more about the individuals' own opposition to restrictions in any form, or their own selfish desire to get back into their dirty little corner of the local boozer.

*Talk of not opening for the vaccinated until mid-July is off the wall

It is discrimination to allow one group into the pubs/restaurants but not the other based on tha fact that they don't have a vaccine and haven't had the option to get it, dispite making huge scrifices and putting their lives on hold to protect the very people who would theoreticaly be allowed to dine indoors.
If this is an option now, what wasn't it months ago?. Its impossible for business to monitor and for the government to police.

This is beyond a farce at this stage.
Why not say 33% or 50% capacity is allowed and table service only?

ypres5

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

Reading the first 3 paragraphs was thinking it was balanced enough until



Fair enough back to form

Everyone who doesn't think nphet are the modern day equivalent of the Baghdad house of wisdom is a raging selfish alcoholic in Seamus' little world I guess.

Beechwoodspark

So apparently nphet gave a real “dooms day” Armageddon type of report to govt last night

TefalBrain

seamus wrote: »

The same thing was said about masks when they were first introduced, and yet compliance was near-total from day one. There were no penalties for refusing to wear a mask for weeks, maybe even months. And businesses did stop customers from coming. Frequently.

What I'm finding a bit bizarre/amusing this morning is that so many people who were adamant that indoor socialising needed to be opened up, are completely refusing to consider any compromise on this. It's all or nothing apparently.

The facts are that we know indoor boozing is a gigantic risk factor. 60% of the adult population remains unvaccinated, and as a population we are still technically wide open to a big(ish) surge for at least another month. The 60-69 age group won't be protected until the end of July.

I would generally think that we should be OK for reopening on the 5th, but that it's a slight gamble. Opening for the vaccinated only until mid or late July is a reasonable compromise to allow businesses to resume, while still protecting the population.*

But for those shouting loudest the discussion has shifted from "open the pubs" to "no vaccine discrimination". One would be forgiven for thinking that this is nothing to do with saving businesses at all, and is more about the individuals' own opposition to restrictions in any form, or their own selfish desire to get back into their dirty little corner of the local boozer.

*Talk of not opening for the vaccinated until mid-July is off the wall

Yeah it's all about pubs and smelly auld lads sitting in the corner :rolleyes:

mr zulu

It's frigthing to wake up this morning to find out I'm living in the most dangerous country in the world for covid.

Beechwoodspark

Some new app being discussed now as well

Some sort of “pub passport” the guy on RTÉ saying

TefalBrain

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

So apparently nphet gave a real “dooms day” Armageddon type of report to govt last night

Right on cue before the reopening, imagine my shock.

You'll have something similar just before 19th of July in an attempt to scare people from going on holiday.

Government using it's media arm now to scare the living daylights out of people to justify everything. It's a propaganda war now.

is_that_so

From RTE live feed

The Licensed Vintners Association has said it will reject any move to separate out the vaccinated from the non vaccinated, describing the suggestion as ridiculous and unworkable.

https://www.rte.ie/news/post/103709843
I also agree with them looking for a commitment on July 19.

Beechwoodspark

If the choice is between


Hospitality closed up and shuttered with dust balls rolling past

Or the pub passport app to allow some trade

I’d say app worth a go?

WoollyRedHat

seamus wrote: »

The same thing was said about masks when they were first introduced, and yet compliance was near-total from day one. There were no penalties for refusing to wear a mask for weeks, maybe even months. And businesses did stop customers from coming. Frequently.

What I'm finding a bit bizarre/amusing this morning is that so many people who were adamant that indoor socialising needed to be opened up, are completely refusing to consider any compromise on this. It's all or nothing apparently.

The facts are that we know indoor boozing is a gigantic risk factor. 60% of the adult population remains unvaccinated, and as a population we are still technically wide open to a big(ish) surge for at least another month. The 60-69 age group won't be protected until the end of July.

I would generally think that we should be OK for reopening on the 5th, but that it's a slight gamble. Opening for the vaccinated only until mid or late July is a reasonable compromise to allow businesses to resume, while still protecting the population.*

But for those shouting loudest the discussion has shifted from "open the pubs" to "no vaccine discrimination". One would be forgiven for thinking that this is nothing to do with saving businesses at all, and is more about the individuals' own opposition to restrictions in any form, or their own selfish desire to get back into their dirty little corner of the local boozer.

*Talk of not opening for the vaccinated until mid-July is off the wall

It's the manner they have gone about it, it's ridiculous they're only talking about vaccine passports for pubs now. Also your last sentence is uncalled for.

stephenjmcd

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

Some new app being discussed now as well

Some sort of “pub passport” the guy on RTÉ saying

Phillip Ryan from the Independent.

3 things being discussed

1)Proof of vaccination using the HSE card you get
2) An App - Viewed as highly unlikely given the time frame
3) Government simply issue advice that if your not vaccinated you don't go into pubs and restaurants

kieran26

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

If the choice is between


Hospitality closed up and shuttered with dust balls rolling past

Or the pub passport app to allow some trade

I’d say app worth a go?

And what about the people who havn't had the option of a vaccine yet? seems as NPHET so againat antigen testing.

seamus

kieran26 wrote: »

It is discrimination to allow one group into the pubs/restaurants but not the other

Discrimination is not illegal. Discriminating based on vaccine status is not illegal, especially if it serves a purpose and is based on government guidelines. Whether it's ethical is a different discussion, but I see no issue provided that it's temporary.

If this is an option now, what wasn't it months ago?.

Well, I agree. But considering the fact that you think it's patently unfair, I don't think you would have been any more amenable to the idea months ago either. So it's a moot question.

TefalBrain wrote: »

Yeah it's all about pubs and smelly auld lads sitting in the corner :rolleyes:

What's it about then? Because it's clearly not about getting businesses back on their feet if people are unwilling to accept a little compromise.

is_that_so

Beechwoodspark wrote: »

If the choice is between


Hospitality closed up and shuttered with dust balls rolling past

Or the pub passport app to allow some trade

I’d say app worth a go?

There's also the option where the government eventually say no to NPHET! That will come soon enough if they continue to warn us in this manner.