Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Swaine

“We were given a best case scenario and a worst case scenario for opening pubs and restaurants, we decided to be cautious and go with the latter”

Varadkar..

There’s cautious and there’s utter lunacy.

Ireland is no longer an outlier. The country is on another planet.

Ashamed to be Irish.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

That's some incredible ineptitude for the 50-59 years olds to be so far ahead of the 60-69 years olds at this stage.

60-69 are AZ, originally with a 12 week gap, over 50s are a mixture of mRNA and J&J, very few AZ though. 60-69 should be finished in next few weeks.

is_that_so

is_that_so wrote: »

60-69 are AZ, with a 12 week gap, over 50s are a mixture of mRNA and J&J, very few AZ though. 60-69 should be finished in next few weeks.

Sure we'll be generous and call it 3 weeks, pretty much perfect to re-open on 19th July eh?

podgeandrodge

Deleted User wrote: »

That's some incredible ineptitude for the 50-59 years olds to be so far ahead of the 60-69 years olds at this stage.

Although in fairness, at that time they had AZ, and probably wanted to get it into arms of over 60s asap in terms of the higher risk to that age cohort. The problem was their 12 week interval, which now miracously appears to be down to 4 weeks. And supplies of course. But it seems very unfair now in retrospect with other age groups catching up and leading.

is_that_so

Deleted User wrote: »

Sure we'll be generous and call it 3 weeks, pretty much perfect to re-open on 19th July eh?

Clearly that is the next plan! They will now start work on the new, new plan for after July 19!

bloopy

Swaine wrote: »

“We were given a best case scenario and a worst case scenario for opening pubs and restaurants, we decided to be cautious and go with the latter”

Varadkar..

There’s cautious and there’s utter lunacy.

Ireland is no longer an outlier. The country is on another planet.

Ashamed to be Irish.

Why did they go with the latter?
The figures put forward by nphet are so large that they seem to have been plucked out of thin air.
No other country in Europe is putting forward such a scenario.
What does nphet know that the rest of the world seem to be unaware of?

hmmm

podgeandrodge wrote: »

Although in fairness, at that time they had AZ, and probably wanted to get it into arms of over 60s asap in terms of the higher risk to that age cohort. The problem was their 12 week interval, which now miracously appears to be down to 4 weeks. And supplies of course. But it seems very unfair now in retrospect with other age groups catching up and leading.

The original variant responded very well to a single dose, it made sense at the time.

Delta unfortunately escapes single dose protection much more, although it's unclear whether you're still protected against severe disease.

I think a lot of people don't realise that the second vaccine in a two-dose regime doesn't just give you an extra 40/50% protection, it actually gives you a huge boost in protection. The first vaccine is a Megane, the second is a Space Shuttle.

First Up

Deleted User wrote:

If nobody is factoring in human behaviour, yes very much so.

Factoring in human behaviour is very evident in the way measures are being introduced, monitored and adjusted.

350 - 400 new cases every day. What is responsible for that except human behaviour?

Deleted User wrote:

There are many reasons why humans need to leave the house everyday.

It isn't about them leaving the house. Its where they go and how they behave when they do.

Silentcorner

hmmm wrote: »

The original variant responded very well to a single dose, it made sense at the time.

Delta unfortunately escapes single dose protection much more, although it's unclear whether you're still protected against severe disease.

I think a lot of people don't realise that the second vaccine in a two-dose regime doesn't just give you an extra 40/50% protection, it actually gives you a huge boost in protection. The first vaccine is a Megane, the second is a Space Shuttle.

What are everyone else in the world vaccinating their population with that we aren't? Because every where you look life is much closer to normal than we are....

ShooterSF

hmmm wrote: »

There are industry representatives in the media today saying that they oppose a plan to allow vaccinated-only indoors, as if that is somehow going to force the government to ignore the medical advice. When will they ever learn?

Why does it have to be about changing their mind? I've talked to 2 bar managers and old employers of mine and both are dreading it if the owners push it through. They'd rather stay closed indoors until we can seat everyone. It is going to cause arguments and hassle with a lot of customers and it is just a pain for staff. And then you get into issues of taking bookings and some member of the party turning up without a cert+id and now you either give up money, keep a table empty and probably have threats from the rest of the group to never step foot in the place again or you break the law. In my opinion it is borderline unworkable and voicing that doesn't mean I expect opening to happen faster. I'd rather like most workers in the industry have opening pushed back if it isn't safe rather than make us vaccine police.
The government have screwed over the frontline staff of pubs with this who will get the brunt of the frustration from the public all while apparently putting them at huge risk to be in the pub for 8-12 hours around people, many of them (staff) too young to be fully vaccinated.

bucketybuck

You have to laugh, I just remembered that it is only 24 hours since Varadker said there would be "total clarity" for busines owners today...

What the **** about that mess today was "total clarity"?

Silentcorner

Silentcorner wrote: »

What are everyone else in the world vaccinating their population with that we aren't? Because every where you look life is much closer to normal than we are....

government are just paralysed by the state of our health system. This is the collective chickens coming home to roost

PmMeUrDogs

ShooterSF wrote: »

Why does it have to be about changing their mind? I've talked to 2 bar managers and old employers of mine and both are dreading it if the owners push it through. They'd rather stay closed indoors until we can seat everyone. It is going to cause arguments and hassle with a lot of customers and it is just a pain for staff. And then you get into issues of taking bookings and some member of the party turning up without a cert+id and now you either give up money, keep a table empty and probably have threats from the rest of the group to never step foot in the place again or you break the law. In my opinion it is borderline unworkable and voicing that doesn't mean I expect opening to happen faster. I'd rather like most workers in the industry have opening pushed back if it isn't safe rather than make us vaccine police.
The government have screwed over the frontline staff of pubs with this who will get the brunt of the frustration from the public all while apparently putting them at huge risk to be in the pub for 8-12 hours around people, many of them (staff) too young to be fully vaccinated.

Wondering how this will work myself tbh. I have absolutely zero intentions of asking my customers to provide me with some of their medical information just so they can sit in my workplace. I get enough **** from them for asking them to wear a mask, or stay behind a screen, or because they demand I sit them indoors against restrictions. I'm not adding another reason for someone to treat me or my staff like dirt to that list.

ClosedAccountFuzzy

To be quite honest, and I don't mean this as a downer but I didn't enjoy the whole experience of being indoors with all the PPE, time limits and so on.

Outdoors or fully vaccinated indoors sounds much better to me.

I mean who wants to have a drink in an environment that feels more like a clinic anyway?

I just found the whole experience unpleasant and about as much fun as a trip to the GPs

However, can we prioritise vaccinating staff in hospitality, bars, restaurants etc asap. They seem at much higher risk than retail because of that environment.

I cannot understand why there hasn't been a programme rolled out for them. It strikes me as totally unfair. They're expecting them to deal with this environment. Many of them are younger and it just strikes me as a government making decisions that suit for people who are middle aged, have houses in suburbia and are only ever customers in bars or restaurants.

I'd like to see the entirety of them offered vaccines as a matter of urgency if we're going to open soon.

They are going to have to deal with rooms full of probably drunk patrons very soon.

hmmm

Silentcorner wrote: »

What are everyone else in the world vaccinating their population with that we aren't? Because every where you look life is much closer to normal than we are....

One of the NPHET models is what would have happened if we had the original UK variant, and that showed 405 admissions and 55 in ICU which would have allowed reopening.

Lisbon is ahead of us on the Delta curve and they have significant and increasingly stringent restrictions - sure you can eat inside (limited numbers), but no bars and you can't leave the city without certain certs.

Every country is going to face a challenge from Delta, but we know we can defeat it by mass vaccination.

CruelSummer

Oh look, there’s Wembley on the tv - home of the ‘Delta variant’.
45,000 fans allowed in to attend. Imagine that - no one is dropping like flies as yet.

Boris has come out today saying July 19th is reopening & that they’ll be living with Covid from here on out.

Meanwhile in Ireland…

CruelSummer

bucketybuck wrote: »

You have to laugh, I just remembered that it is only 24 hours since Varadker said there would be "total clarity" for busines owners today...

What the **** about that mess today was "total clarity"?

Absolutely disgusted with the announcement. Kicking the can down the road & keeping everything closed.

How is it policy that NPHET can arrive into Government buildings at the 11th hour with a few dire model scenarios & bounce the Government into these crazy decisions with no due discussion from all affects sectors & parties. And most importantly no accountability for clearly BS model predictions from NPHET.

It is beyond belief that this is how the Government are making extremely serious decisions affecting every man, woman and child in Ireland now & into the future.

NPHET need to be investigated. The manner in which they try and pressure the Government via media, while only being focused on Covid has gone on far too long. They’ve crossed the line by a country mile this time. If there are any drive by, other forms of protests coming up that isn’t the usual anti vax nonsense - I’m going.

Silentcorner

CruelSummer wrote: »

Oh look, there’s Wembley on the tv - home of the ‘Delta variant’.
45,000 fans allowed in to attend. Imagine that - no one is dropping like flies as yet.

Boris has come out today saying July 19th is reopening & that they’ll be living with Covid from here on out.

Meanwhile in Ireland…

You'd wonder have the absolutely massive protests witnessed in London over the last few weeks had an impact....The Health Secretary was dumped in fairly dubious circumstances..

amandstu

seamus wrote: »

There are about 1.25 million people over 60 or otherwise vulnerable. If they're 100% vaccinated, there are still some for this group for whom vaccination doesn't work, about 5%, I think. That's 62,500 people.

,Just on that.Suppose one is one of that number for whom the vaccine does not work,is that because it has zero effect or simply that it is less effective than for the majority?

is_that_so

Silentcorner wrote: »

You'd wonder have the absolutely massive protests witnessed in London over the last few weeks had an impact....The Health Secretary was dumped in fairly dubious circumstances..

He was up to no good!

iamwhoiam

Reporter on TV3 just said that the Government were blindsided by NPHETs recommendations about fully vaccinated only indoors . So an elected Government is blindsided and havent the courage to question the ridiculousness of it or refuse to go down that road .

ClosedAccountFuzzy

Silentcorner wrote: »

You'd wonder have the absolutely massive protests witnessed in London over the last few weeks had an impact....The Health Secretary was dumped in fairly dubious circumstances..

Politically speaking, he was about as controversial as choosing magnolia paint. I don't think his departure has anything to do with policies or implementation of UK government policy on reopening. He wasn't a particularly divisive or challenging minister. It was entirely down to 'personal events' ...

The only political issue I would see is Boris is fond of "dead catting" - finding an unrelated controversy to take attention off whatever the actually controversy is and there are many, many controversies at the moment, not all of which relate to COVID.

I wouldn't really see how his departure has anything to do with UK COVID policies though.

Ficheall

iamwhoiam wrote: »

the Government were blindsided by NPHETs recommendations about fully vaccinated only indoors

Blindsided??? If they want to defer to NPHET rather than taking note of their advice and making some difficult judgment calls, so be it, but excusing themselves as "blindsided" is a bit much..

KrustyUCC

RTE rolling out George Lee to defend NPHET modelling

Entirely reasonable predictions according to George

Always_Running

For confirmation of our May and June easing of restrictions we had In hospital 155 and 44 and In ICU. Vaccines administered back then was 1.5M

Today when we are told a lot of the July 5th easing of restrictions won't be going ahead as planned. 46 in hospital, 16 in ICU and 4M vaccines administered.

stephenjmcd

KrustyUCC wrote: »

RTE rolling out George Lee to defend NPHET modelling

Entirely reasonable predictions according to George

Same old same old

https://twitter.com/LVADublinPubs/status/1409924267710484487?s=19

iamwhoiam

Ficheall wrote: »

Blindsided??? If they want to defer to NPHET rather than taking note of their advice and making some difficult judgment calls, so be it, but excusing themselves as "blindsided" is a bit much..

Oh i agree . I dont think any Government should tolerate being blindsided by a committee who is there to advise only

Cork2021

stephenjmcd wrote: »

Same old same old

https://twitter.com/LVADublinPubs/status/1409924267710484487?s=19

What? George Lee said that?

Never!!!!

What a tool

KrustyUCC

Always_Running wrote: »

For confirmation of our May and June easing of restrictions we had In hospital 155 and 44 and In ICU. Vaccines administered back then was 1.5M

Today when we are told a lot of the July 5th easing of restrictions won't be going ahead as planned. 46 in hospital, 16 in ICU and 4M vaccines administered.

May and June were easy reopenings

July was always going to be different due to NPHET aversion to indoor hospitality

It's mad that we're such an outlier in Europe and it's only going to get worse case for future reopenings

KrustyUCC

Cork2021 wrote: »

What? George Lee said that?

Never!!!!

What a tool

Well George has to parrot and advocate for NPHET

No surprise there