Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Working class heroes

seamus wrote: »

I knew someone would get sand in their vagina over some throwaway hyperbole.

Can you throw up a link to the word "condescending" please?

Spiderman0081

Anders Tegnell 1 year ago on business/school closures.

“More at the outset, we talked very much about sustainability, and I think that’s something we managed to keep to. And also be a bit resistant to quick fixes, to realise that this is not going to be easy, it is not going to be a short-term kind of thing, it’s not going to be fixed by one kind of measure. We see a disease that we’re going to have to handle for a long time into the future and we need to build up systems for doing that”
“It’s really using a hammer to kill a fly. We don’t see it as viable to have this kind of drastic closing down, opening and closing. You can’t open and close schools. That is going to be a disaster. And you probably can’t open and close restaurants and stuff like that either too many times. Once or twice, yes, but then people will get very tired and businesses will probably suffer more than if you close them down completely,”

And people still hate on Swedens strategy of living with the virus from the onset. Keep on hating peeps. Im not vaccinated yet. I’m going for wine and food, indoors, with my vaccinated friend.

Wolf359f

timmyntc wrote: »

So ventilation only matters if you're having a pint?

I suppose covid waits to see if youre drinking or not before trying to spread

No but it probably waits until you remove your mask.
Cinema would be a lot larger than most pubs. Most people wouldn't be eating and drinking all through a movie, similar to travelling on planes (before pre-flight tests came about) remove your mask to eat/drink and then it goes back on again.

If it was soley down to alcohol, little cafes and the likes of McDonald's could be opened for indoor dining.

timmyntc

Wolf359f wrote: »

No but it probably waits until you remove your mask.
Cinema would be a lot larger than most pubs. Most people wouldn't be eating and drinking all through a movie, similar to travelling on planes (before pre-flight tests came about) remove your mask to eat/drink and then it goes back on again.

If it was soley down to alcohol, little cafes and the likes of McDonald's could be opened for indoor dining.

You dont wear masks in the cinema once you sit down - only walking to and from seats.

Cal4567

Cal4567 wrote: »

Almost a new month and we have a new gov. target. The 80% to have at least one jab by the end of June which had pushed into July, is now a 60%, or 2.5 million of us, to be fully vaccinated by the end of July.

Varadkar has decreed with his usual level of super confidence in these announcements and one assumes he has run it through beforehand with his governing partners, but who knows?

Reeling in the Years can make great hay out of all these targets when they get round to documenting 20/21.

It's the end of June. How are these targets working out?

jam_mac_jam

I think the hotel thing is very unfair. The fact they can be fully open and a cafe can't seems nonsense to me.

is_that_so

Cal4567 wrote: »

It's the end of June. How are these targets working out?

As always it's a supply issue, we can get them into arms in large numbers now. And given the mess of the last 48 hours it's ironic the HSE are turning out to be the most effective performers in this pandemic.

duffman13

I always thought last summer it would be a fairly scummy thing to make this political in anyway and it was good to see a broad recognition of doing things to protect vulnerable etc. The last 12 months though, culminating with this crap being peddled has changed my opinion on it. I'm just surprised no one has mad it political yet. PBP/Solidarity are actually advocating a zero covid approach still and the remainder of the political parties are broadly in tow with following NPHET

Social Democrats or Sinn Fein could make some headway. If FF or FG weren't part of this coalition they'd be hammering the other. Its a vacuum chamber with NPHET dictating it with no challenge. The fact they aren't independently fact checking the modelling is bizarre

Sweet.Science

seamus wrote: »

Are you drinking in the cinema?

I get the feelings that you don't have any kind of consistent idea of exactly what it is that you want here and you're just trying to point out ways that everything is wrong.

My local cinema serves alcohol anyway . The new going out.

Doctor Jimbob

is_that_so wrote: »

As always it's a supply issue, we can get them into arms in large numbers now.

It's not just a supply issue. Pharmacies are awaiting guidance from the HSE to start giving J&J/AZ to younger people.

is_that_so

duffman13 wrote: »

I always thought last summer it would be a fairly scummy thing to make this political in anyway and it was good to see a broad recognition of doing things to protect vulnerable etc. The last 12 months though, culminating with this crap being peddled has changed my opinion on it. I'm just surprised no one has mad it political yet. PBP/Solidarity are actually advocating a zero covid approach still and the remainder of the political parties are broadly in tow with following NPHET

Social Democrats or Sinn Fein could make some headway. If FF or FG weren't part of this coalition they'd be hammering the other. Its a vacuum chamber with NPHET dictating it with no challenge. The fact they aren't independently fact checking the modelling is bizarre

In the face of large numbers of the public supporting caution there's no political capital in it. Of the parties FG are about the only ones who would push back against NPHET in any way.

.42.

Maybe I'm not up to date but are we still in the "Living WITH Covid" or has that plan changed?

is_that_so

Doctor Jimbob wrote: »

It's not just a supply issue. Pharmacies are awaiting guidance from the HSE to start giving J&J/AZ to younger people.

For those big population targets pharmacies only make a little dent and it is still a supply issue. As for the HSE, it's only just been recommended so it's doubtful it'll be this week anyway.

is_that_so

.42. wrote: »

Maybe I'm not up to date but are we still in the "Living WITH Covid" or has that plan changed?

No we are but just without indoor hospitality but apparently there is an avalanche of cases waiting for us.

so according to Leo, t his system will be lawful. It's not now but when they pass the legislation, it will be..are they having a laugh??

It's currently unlawful to collect our first born but if you make it legal, then of course it is lawful, that's the point..where do we stop writing new draconian laws to seperate society, this is absolutely shocking stuff to read..

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/other/restricting-indoor-dining-to-vaccinated-people-will-be-lawful/ar-AALCczy?ocid=entnewsntp

bucketybuck

duffman13 wrote: »

I always thought last summer it would be a fairly scummy thing to make this political in anyway and it was good to see a broad recognition of doing things to protect vulnerable etc.

Making things political is supposed to be a good thing, not a bad. There is a reason the UK calls the party not in power the "opposition" party, political opposition keeps government honest and prevents exactly the sort of misguided single issue devotion that has us in our current mess.

It is to our shame that Ireland has not had any serious pressure put on government to justify their actions in the past year.

zackory

seamus wrote: »

Are you drinking in the cinema?

I get the feelings that you don't have any kind of consistent idea of exactly what it is that you want here and you're just trying to point out ways that everything is wrong.

I think it's now obvious to 99% of the population that its nphet are the virus.

seamus

timmyntc wrote: »

So ventilation only matters if you're having a pint?

I suppose covid waits to see if youre drinking or not before trying to spread

Looks, let's simplify this. I know most of these comments are in bad faith, but sure lookit.

Imagine the risk of getting covid was on a scale of 1 to 10. 1, where you're standing alone minding your own business outside. 10, where you're snogging someone with a recent positive swab. Everything adds or removes risk points from the scale.

Indoor settings with randomers, adds 6 points. Outdoor settings with randomers, adds 1 point.

So a cinema is 7 points.

Add social distancing, take away 1 point. Add masks, take away 1 point. Add ventilation/HVAC, take away 2 points.

So the cinema is actually 3 points.

A pub indoors, is 7 points. No masks, no social distancing, no air con. Add alcohol, +2 points.

9 points for indoor drinking.

Outdoor drinking, is 2 points. Add alcohol, +2 points. Brings it up to 4.

A gym, 7 points. With social distancing & HVAC, 4 points.


Don't take this is as an example of a perfect weighting system, or starting throwing in "what about pubs where they have all the doors open and fans blowing", it's just examples of why the risk profile of various indoor locations differs. And why alcohol and indoors is vilified.

KrustyUCC

Stormyteacup wrote: »

Just for posterity I’ll reiterate that it looks to me like NPHET are hellbent on preventing travel in and out of the country as much as they can.

They may well believe they are acting in good faith for the good of public health. But since EU diluted their power to decide travel restrictions for this island they will pull out all the stops to keep travel at bay as long as possible.

No indoor dining is a deterrent in itself for incoming tourists. But more importantly, if Ireland are still restricted as we are currently by July 19th, that’s a reason acceptable to EU for us to delay digital cert.

Keeping restrictions is a means to heavily restrict travel for leisure purposes throughout the Summer. Next-up will be messaging that your foreign holiday will mean putting children’s education at risk.

I hope you're wrong but I fear you'll be right unfortunately

Ficheall

zackory wrote: »

I think it's now obvious to 99% of the population that its nphet are the virus.

Presumably NPHET are also responsible for Europe's 27% increase in cases and 8% increase in deaths to last week from the previous.

agoodpunt

Ficheall wrote: »

Presumably NPHET are also responsible for Europe's 27% increase in cases and 8% increase in deaths to last week from the previous.

Are u George Lee? link?

zackory

Ficheall wrote: »

Presumably NPHET are also responsible for Europe's 27% increase in cases and 8% increase in deaths to last week from the previous.

Why are you presuming that?

Ficheall

zackory wrote: »

Why are you presuming that?

Well, you said they were the virus....

zackory

seamus wrote: »

Looks, let's simplify this. I know most of these comments are in bad faith, but sure lookit.

Imagine the risk of getting covid was on a scale of 1 to 10. 1, where you're standing alone minding your own business outside. 10, where you're snogging someone with a recent positive swab. Everything adds or removes risk points from the scale.

Indoor settings with randomers, adds 6 points. Outdoor settings with randomers, adds 1 point.

So a cinema is 7 points.

Add social distancing, take away 1 point. Add masks, take away 1 point. Add ventilation/HVAC, take away 2 points.

So the cinema is actually 3 points.

A pub indoors, is 7 points. No masks, no social distancing, no air con. Add alcohol, +2 points.

9 points for indoor drinking.

Outdoor drinking, is 2 points. Add alcohol, +2 points. Brings it up to 4.

A gym, 7 points. With social distancing & HVAC, 4 points.


Don't take this is as an example of a perfect weighting system, or starting throwing in "what about pubs where they have all the doors open and fans blowing", it's just examples of why the risk profile of various indoor locations differs. And why alcohol and indoors is vilified.

That's like the rubbish NPHET come out with.

You realise house parties are going on all the time, totally uncontrolled.

duffman13

Ficheall wrote: »

Presumably NPHET are also responsible for Europe's 27% increase in cases and 8% increase in deaths to last week from the previous.

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

Where are you seeing that? Looks like a very steady decline in Covid cases and deaths every week up to 24th of June. Next update is due tomorrow.

mightyreds

seamus wrote: »

Looks, let's simplify this. I know most of these comments are in bad faith, but sure lookit.

Imagine the risk of getting covid was on a scale of 1 to 10. 1, where you're standing alone minding your own business outside. 10, where you're snogging someone with a recent positive swab. Everything adds or removes risk points from the scale.

Indoor settings with randomers, adds 6 points. Outdoor settings with randomers, adds 1 point.

So a cinema is 7 points.

Add social distancing, take away 1 point. Add masks, take away 1 point. Add ventilation/HVAC, take away 2 points.

So the cinema is actually 3 points.

A pub indoors, is 7 points. No masks, no social distancing, no air con. Add alcohol, +2 points.

9 points for indoor drinking.

Outdoor drinking, is 2 points. Add alcohol, +2 points. Brings it up to 4.

A gym, 7 points. With social distancing & HVAC, 4 points.


Don't take this is as an example of a perfect weighting system, or starting throwing in "what about pubs where they have all the doors open and fans blowing", it's just examples of why the risk profile of various indoor locations differs. And why alcohol and indoors is vilified.

I get your weighing system it's good. But the examples are terrible.

duffman13

seamus wrote: »

Looks, let's simplify this. I know most of these comments are in bad faith, but sure lookit.

Imagine the risk of getting covid was on a scale of 1 to 10. 1, where you're standing alone minding your own business outside. 10, where you're snogging someone with a recent positive swab. Everything adds or removes risk points from the scale.

Indoor settings with randomers, adds 6 points. Outdoor settings with randomers, adds 1 point.

So a cinema is 7 points.

Add social distancing, take away 1 point. Add masks, take away 1 point. Add ventilation/HVAC, take away 2 points.

So the cinema is actually 3 points.

A pub indoors, is 7 points. No masks, no social distancing, no air con. Add alcohol, +2 points.

9 points for indoor drinking.

Outdoor drinking, is 2 points. Add alcohol, +2 points. Brings it up to 4.

A gym, 7 points. With social distancing & HVAC, 4 points.


Don't take this is as an example of a perfect weighting system, or starting throwing in "what about pubs where they have all the doors open and fans blowing", it's just examples of why the risk profile of various indoor locations differs. And why alcohol and indoors is vilified.

Totally get were you coming from however none of the above takes into account other things like numbers of people vaccinated, use of antigen tests, age profile and risk to the individual. That back of an envelope type stuff could be justified last year but vaccines adds a complexity to the modelling which like NPHET is being ignored in the above.

Ficheall

duffman13 wrote: »

https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/en/cases-2019-ncov-eueea

Where are you seeing that? Looks like a very steady decline in Covid cases and deaths every week up to 24th of June. Next update is due tomorrow.

I was looking at worldometers. I guess it includes more countries? Your graph does show a different picture.

zackory

Ficheall wrote: »

I was looking at worldometers. I guess it includes more countries? Your graph does show a different picture.

Cases and deaths should explode in Europe soon, based on Nphets modelling.

zackory

duffman13 wrote: »

Totally get were you coming from however none of the above takes into account other things like numbers of people vaccinated, use of antigen tests, age profile and risk to the individual. That back of an envelope type stuff could be justified last year but vaccines adds a complexity to the modelling which like NPHET is being ignored in the above.

And there is social distancing in pubs, they can also be mandated to leave doors open for ventilation, add in the vaccinated people in each group and the risk is greatly reduced.