Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Wolf359f

fun loving criminal wrote: »

They don't have a clue what they're doing. Look at Israel, they had to bring back mask wearing after about a week. So I wouldn't be too concerned with what our neighbours are doing.

I dunno, Israel maybe are being a little too over cautious, a bit like ourselves maybe?

karlitob

LessOutragePlz wrote: »

Don't worry this thread will be shut down soon as we can't be discussing the reality that median age of death is 83 and that 99.97% of those under 45 will survive getting covid. There's not enough fear and doom and gloom in that sentence so the discussion will be shut down shortly or merged with another thread so it will disappear forever.

What do you want to discuss. Attached are the death rates.

lucernarian

WertdeerSC wrote: »

What I wrote was taken from the source that I quoted. Not my words.

My point, if the death rates are so low, why does it feel to me like I am being railroaded into taking a vaccine. If not by the Government and media, but by individuals.

I'm in no great hurry to take something to prevent a virus that has a 0.05% chance of killing me. A vaccine that I have no real understanding of what it is doing to my body, god knows it's effects on me which may not be seen for 5,10,20 years.Yes, I might get long Covid, but I will weigh up the pros and cons and decide myself.

I'm surprised there isn't more scepticism, or are people just that desperate to go to the pub, etcetera? It's not like these big pharma's haven't got previous form. Anyone can Google and see the billions they've had to pay out in the States.

No I am not anti vax, I have had everything else over the years including not so common jabs for when I went travelling around the whole like rabies and dengue fever.

Two things: what's the distinction you'd make between the available vaccines and ones you've taken before? Things like "speed of development", safety records at particular companies involved in making it, personal risk etc would clarify.

2nd thing: given the vaccines do appear to be working and preventing transmission, why would you take your chances with covid (and its long term effects) over vaccines that have minimal serious side effects demonstrated to date?

karlitob

WertdeerSC wrote: »

What I wrote was taken from the source that I quoted. Not my words.

My point, if the death rates are so low, why does it feel to me like I am being railroaded into taking a vaccine. If not by the Government and media, but by individuals.

I'm in no great hurry to take something to prevent a virus that has a 0.05% chance of killing me. A vaccine that I have no real understanding of what it is doing to my body, god knows it's effects on me which may not be seen for 5,10,20 years.Yes, I might get long Covid, but I will weigh up the pros and cons and decide myself.

I'm surprised there isn't more scepticism, or are people just that desperate to go to the pub, etcetera? It's not like these big pharma's haven't got previous form. Anyone can Google and see the billions they've had to pay out in the States.

No I am not anti vax, I have had everything else over the years including not so common jabs for when I went travelling around the whole like rabies and dengue fever.

You’re clearly anti-vax or else you wouldn’t be asking these ‘questions’.

You must’ve had some seriously harsh words with your parents for forcing you to take the 3 in 1, the BCG and the MMR.

What do you think ‘society’s view is on your parents for forcing you to undergo such a dastardly act.

lucernarian

Wolf359f wrote: »

I dunno, Israel maybe are being a little too over cautious, a bit like ourselves maybe?

Important thing to point out: they have significant populations of unvaccinated vulnerable people. Ireland doesn't even have that 😂

WertdeerSC

Lumen wrote: »

To answer the supposed original post, the reason the CFR was so low amongst Singapore migrant workers living in dormitories is because they were almost all under 50 (the age limit for a new work permit) and healthy enough to work. Hence "workers".

But this isn't really a thread about Singapore migrant workers or even libertarian clowns at the AIER.

It's another thinly disguised pre-text for antivax.

Yawn.

Ahhh, here we go, anyone that asks any questions is labelled an 'anti-vaxxer' how very convenient. You've identified precisely my point, the risk for those under 50 (or actually identified as under 70 by the WHO) is low. Any vaccine which has been around for such a short period of time is a long-term unknown and I would commend people that actually have concerns about what the long term effects on their health could possibly be...no one knows, we just have to wait for the effluxion of time.

giveitholly

When they are reporting the daily figures now are they back reporting deaths again?(if there were any deaths)

Wolf359f

lucernarian wrote: »

Important thing to point out: they have significant populations of unvaccinated vulnerable people. Ireland doesn't even have that ��

That is true, some older age groups take up is much lower than in Ireland, however they would be similar to other parts of Europe. Yet other parts of Europe don't seem worried about an increase in cases.

Neamhshuntasach

beaz2018 wrote: »

are hotels actually letting walks ins in? hilarious

Most definitely are. And big well known hotels and chains too. Been in a few myself. Watched the hurling today in one with 5 mates having just strolled in. Was asked for room number and we said we didn't have one. No issue at all. Left that hotel and then went to another hotel close by. Again, nothing said when asked about room number. The questions seemed to be more so about payment method as was table service.

Should add, we're all fully vaxxed.

WertdeerSC

lucernarian wrote: »

Two things: what's the distinction you'd make between the available vaccines and ones you've taken before? Things like "speed of development", safety records at particular companies involved in making it, personal risk etc would clarify.

2nd thing: given the vaccines do appear to be working and preventing transmission, why would you take your chances with covid (and its long term effects) over vaccines that have minimal serious side effects demonstrated to date?

Answers to both fall under the same umbrella, the length of time that the vaccines have been around and have been administered. I do not personally feel comfortable or safe with the idea of any of these new vaccines, and until such a time as I do, I will not be taking one.

karlitob

WertdeerSC wrote: »

My point, if the death rates are so low, why does it feel to me like I am being railroaded into taking a vaccine. If not by the Government and media, but by individuals. .

I don’t know what you feel or why you feel it.

WertdeerSC wrote: »

I'm in no great hurry to take something to prevent a virus that has a 0.05% chance of killing me. .

I’d say you’re confusing probability with incidence and prevalence.

Other questions -
- what viruses have a higher chance than killing you than that? I’d love to know.
- what number is your cut off for taking the vaccine. 0.06%
- Would you take a vaccine for Ebola? Or if your child or family member were at risk of getting Ebola. Would you take a vaccine then.
- what about businesses in ireland and all over the world that can’t open; would you take it for them.

WertdeerSC wrote: »

A vaccine that I have no real understanding of what it is doing to my body, god knows it's effects on me which may not be seen for 5,10,20 years. .

You’re a pleb like the rest of us. Sure how would you have any understanding of vaccines? You’re not a virologist.

You have lots of vaccines in you that were given to you 20 years ago. How’re you getting on?

How long would you like vaccines to put into other peoples bodies before they go into yours?

You do know that most disease modifying drugs are all new - pembro, Orkambi. Jesus even bisphosphonates are new. If you had cancer would you not take these drugs? If you had CF would you not take these drugs?

WertdeerSC wrote: »

Yes, I might get long Covid, but I will weigh up the pros and cons and decide myself. .

But sure if you’ve never had long Covid how could you weigh up the pros and cons. You’ve as much knowledge of long Covid as you do on Covid or vaccines.

WertdeerSC wrote: »

I'm surprised there isn't more scepticism, or are people just that desperate to go to the pub, etcetera? It's not like these big pharma's haven't got previous form. Anyone can Google and see the billions they've had to pay out in the States. .

I’m surprised there is scepticism. Or are people just that desperate to be individuals who think they know more than the experts.

It’s not like big pharma haven’t got precious form - just google, or look out the window - to see how many people have benefited from big pharma. You sound like a lad who’s never had antibiotics, never had paracetomol, never had an anaesthetic before surgery.

WertdeerSC wrote: »

No I am not anti vax, I have had everything else over the years including not so common jabs for when I went travelling around the whole like rabies and dengue fever.

Yes you are.

You had to take those when travelling or you wouldn’t have been allowed in.

lucernarian

Wolf359f wrote: »

That is true, some older age groups take up is much lower than in Ireland, however they would be similar to other parts of Europe. Yet other parts of Europe don't seem worried about an increase in cases.

You skipped my other point though. It's impossibly broad to characterise why takeup in other parts of Europe is low. I suspect the public health officials and existing notions about them are fuelling overt caution, along with the speed of development and possibly more "fringe" theories circulating around. If only as much scrutiny was aimed at the Chinese authorities as the vaccines themselves...

karlitob

WertdeerSC wrote: »

Answers to both fall under the same umbrella, the length of time that the vaccines have been around and have been administered. I do not personally feel comfortable or safe with the idea of any of these new vaccines, and until such a time as I do, I will not be taking one.

So you’re against taking the vaccination. Stay with me here….this makes you anti (against) taking the vaccination ….anti-vaccination….anti-vax.

FintanMcluskey

lucernarian wrote: »

You skipped my other point though. It's impossibly broad to characterise why takeup in other parts of Europe is low. I suspect the public health officials and existing notions about them are fuelling overt caution, along with the speed of development and possibly more "fringe" theories circulating around. If only as much scrutiny was aimed at the Chinese authorities as the vaccines themselves...

I would guess that vaccine uptake in Ireland is higher than everywhere else because Ireland has had the longest and strictest suppression measures in Europe

We all wanted to take the vaccine to return to normal after a rough 12 odd months

Most of Europe didn’t suffer such lengthy suppression so they were already normal so to speak and weren’t as motivated as the Irish to register for the vaccine

lucernarian

karlitob wrote: »

I don’t know what you feel or why you feel it.



I’d say you’re confusing probability with incidence and prevalence.

Other questions -
- what viruses have a higher chance than killing you than that? I’d love to know.
- what number is your cut off for taking the vaccine. 0.06%
- Would you take a vaccine for Ebola? Or if your child or family member were at risk of getting Ebola. Would you take a vaccine then.
- what about businesses in ireland and all over the world that can’t open; would you take it for them.



You’re a pleb like the rest of us. Sure how would you have any understanding of vaccines? You’re not a virologist.

You have lots of vaccines in you that were given to you 20 years ago. How’re you getting on?

How long would you like vaccines to put into other peoples bodies before they go into yours?

You do know that most disease modifying drugs are all new - pembro, Orkambi. Jesus even bisphosphonates are new. If you had cancer would you not take these drugs? If you had CF would you not take these drugs?



But sure if you’ve never had long Covid how could you weigh up the pros and cons. You’ve as much knowledge of long Covid as you do on Covid or vaccines.



I’m surprised there is scepticism. Or are people just that desperate to be individuals who think they know more than the experts.

It’s not like big pharma haven’t got precious form - just google, or look out the window - to see how many people have benefited from big pharma. You sound like a lad who’s never had antibiotics, never had paracetomol, never had an anaesthetic before surgery.

Yes you are.

You had to take those when travelling or you wouldn’t have been allowed in.

I would argue this goes too far, people shouldn't have to be virologists to understand the consequences of what they're taking. This is why Phase 4 "trials" are a thing, ruling out any unintended consequences of a medication or preventative medication.

The risks from covid are still far worse than vaccination currently. That's arguably the main point and anyone questioning the worth of them should remember the body bags in northern Italy and New York.

fun loving criminal

Cork2021 wrote: »

They have a clue and it’s called living with covid a la like we do with influenza. If we keep going the way we are going we’ll never return to normal and will forever be the outliers of Europe

They aren't living with covid. They allowed flights from India and allowed the Delta variant to take off. Living with covid means keeping new variants out which they and we certainly aren't doing.

brickster69

fun loving criminal wrote: »

They don't have a clue what they're doing.

Totally clueless they are :pac::pac::pac:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-surpasses-500000-coronavirus-covid-19-tests-genomically-sequenced

Wolf359f

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I would guess that vaccine uptake in Ireland is higher than everywhere else because Ireland has had the longest and strictest suppression measures in Europe

We all wanted to take the vaccine to return to normal after a rough 12 odd months

Most of Europe didn’t suffer such lengthy suppression so they were already normal so to speak and weren’t as motivated as the Irish to register for the vaccine

So the UK having a similar uptake in vaccines means by your definition, they have also had as long and as strict a lockdown as we have had?
Otherwise it's just the old Correlation vs Causation effect.

FintanMcluskey

Wolf359f wrote: »

So the UK having a similar uptake in vaccines means by your definition, they have also had as long and as strict a lockdown as we have had?
Otherwise it's just the old Correlation vs Causation effect.

I did say Europe

Wolf359f

brickster69 wrote: »

Totally clueless they are :pac::pac::pac:

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/uk-surpasses-500000-coronavirus-covid-19-tests-genomically-sequenced

You can sequence till the cows come home, but if you don't act on it, it's kinda useless.
In the grand scheme of things, we're not too far behind on the sequencing of cases (10% vs 5%). I'm actually surprised how few cases are sequenced in other countries.

Wolf359f

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I did say Europe

The UK is in Europe though. They left the EU, not Europe.

rob316

This is so over, deaths are falling in the UK and daily hospitalisations are a fraction of the last wave, despite it been over run by this delta variant.

If we are meant to be a number of weeks behind the UK then it's even less of an event for us.

rob316

Cork2021 wrote: »

This has to be a joke! Where’s the parade ring? Looks like a cattle mart!! https://twitter.com/rtenews/status/1411374790481428487?s=21

Look at the state of that.

What sort of results do you expect to get that from that? Parks are less distanced than that.

Embarrassing. The UK had large indoor test events months ago with no social distancing.

scooby77

WertdeerSC wrote: »

What I wrote was taken from the source that I quoted. Not my words.

My point, if the death rates are so low, why does it feel to me like I am being railroaded into taking a vaccine. If not by the Government and media, but by individuals.

I'm in no great hurry to take something to prevent a virus that has a 0.05% chance of killing me. A vaccine that I have no real understanding of what it is doing to my body, god knows it's effects on me which may not be seen for 5,10,20 years.Yes, I might get long Covid, but I will weigh up the pros and cons and decide myself.

I'm surprised there isn't more scepticism, or are people just that desperate to go to the pub, etcetera? It's not like these big pharma's haven't got previous form. Anyone can Google and see the billions they've had to pay out in the States.

No I am not anti vax, I have had everything else over the years including not so common jabs for when I went travelling around the whole like rabies and dengue fever.

It's an interesting area for discussion, though not strictly Covid or vaccine related. Though it's late on a Saturday, so forgive me for paraphrasing articles I've read over past number of years without sources, and a few generalisations, and it's based on research findings which could be plain wrong!
It could be assumed that the migrant workers are from deprived, or at least poorer areas (Indian subcontinent or Africa) Some studies have shown that many from deprived areas actually have hyper active immune systems throughout childhood and early adult years. However there's a pay back- lower life expectancy, possibly due to the stress on the body this causes. One example of such a longitudinal
study was of some estates in Glasgow eg Calton which had lowest life expectancy in Europe, 54, in mid 00's( in fact lower than Iraq even during war). Those enrolled in the study actually rarely got sick in their youth or early adulthood, even from common illnesses. Yet rates of heart disease, stroke etc in late 40s/ 50s etc was through the roof. ( Yes drug, alcohol abuse etc far higher but this was factored in).
So based on some studies it could be assumed that younger adults from deprived areas, would actually have " better" immune systems.
The first wave in India showed similar results. In slums of Calcutta and Delhi very few showed any symptoms of Covid. (Though they were rarely overweight, and the high level of diabetes in India is mainly seen in the Middle classes) However studies involving antibody tests showed a very high level throughout that population.
To digress slightly, and to over simplify, in some areas of Africa where one form of Malaria is present, sickle cell anemia is far more common than the norm. It appears to offer protection against that form of malaria. However it generally leads to serious complications in later life, and shortens it.
Tl;Dr nature/ evolution/ whatever is very good at ensuring you live long enough to procreate and rear offspring. It appears some or many from deprived areas have stronger immune systems up to early adulthood, and this may apply to Covid as with everything else. However, as with everything, the piper must be paid for those people, ie lower life expectancy.
(I take any vaccine available, including Comirnaty/ Pfizer, just in case!)

Wolf359f

rob316 wrote: »

This is so over, deaths are falling in the UK and daily hospitalisations are a fraction of the last wave, despite it been over run by this delta variant.

If we are meant to be a number of weeks behind the UK then it's even less of an event for us.

I'm not sure about deaths falling, far too early to tell. But Absolutely no way they get anyway close to previous waves.
However, if you take Scotland, who is a little further ahead, they peaked in Jan with 198 admissions a day (7 day average), they are now at 43 daily admissions (7 day average). So a fraction yes, but it's 21% and rising.

karlitob

lucernarian wrote: »

I would argue this goes too far, people shouldn't have to be virologists to understand the consequences of what they're taking. This is why Phase 4 "trials" are a thing, ruling out any unintended consequences of a medication or preventative medication.

I agree. But that poster is not listening to the experts who have explained the benefits of taking and the consequences of not taking. The poster just doesn’t like it. He’s no different to people who think they can treat their cancer with diet and no chemotherapy.

They have the evidence base expert given information. They just don’t want to hear it. So for the level of assurance they require - they’d have to be experts in that field. Of course if they were - they would take it.

lucernarian wrote: »

The risks from covid are still far worse than vaccination currently. That's arguably the main point and anyone questioning the worth of them should remember the body bags in northern Italy and New York.

Agreed. Though I found the dead bodies on the streets of India more powerful.

lucernarian

FintanMcluskey wrote: »

I would guess that vaccine uptake in Ireland is higher than everywhere else because Ireland has had the longest and strictest suppression measures in Europe

We all wanted to take the vaccine to return to normal after a rough 12 odd months

Most of Europe didn’t suffer such lengthy suppression so they were already normal so to speak and weren’t as motivated as the Irish to register for the vaccine

It wouldn't explain the population of Denmark's eagerness to get the vaccine though. Also over 12 months we've avoided marginally useless measures like curfews (unlike the Netherlands)

FishOnABike

Van.Bosch wrote: »

Agreed.

“We had 8,000 in Croke park today, it went great, let’s extrapolate that and have 80,000 next”

“Eh no”

Obviously not a Galway or a Wexford fan!

Dave147

There, They're and Their. Jesus Christ, learn the difference.

JTMan

Meanwhile the UK are going ahead with their Freedom Day on 19 July according to the Sunday Times here (paywall):

From July 19, masks will become voluntary in all settings, including shops, hospitality and public transport.

The requirement to scan a QR code when entering a bar, restaurant, hairdresser, gym, museum or other venue will be dropped. The government will scrap the regulations that require businesses to collect customers’ contact tracing details.

In a news conference early this week, Boris Johnson is also expected to announce plans to drop social distancing rules

House parties will no longer be outlawed and mass events, such as music festivals, will be allowed.