Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

Ficheall

First Up wrote: »

Yes

Fair enough - I've not heard of them and my (very brief) google yielded nada. I think this "blew up" largely because of the Nolan tweet. I think if people are properly instructed and if they administer them properly (I would definitely be reluctant to stick the swab up my nose and swirl it around several times), and if they then react as advised to (isolate if positive, take the usual precautions if negative), then they would definitely be useful. There's just a lot of "ifs" there at the mo.


A friend in Germany (anecdotal, aye, and possibly with a more cautious view because her grandfather died of covid) says self-tests aren't accepted for entry to shops etc. I've asked a couple of other friends over there what the story is to see if that's true but they've not got back to me yet.

Working class heroes

marno21 wrote: »

Vaccine thread is blazing with optimism this morning including some figures on deliveries as we go on

354k+ vaccines being delivered on the week of the 24th being one highlight. While we’re lifting now we still have gears left to shift up into.

This will be us shortly

https://twitter.com/bnodesk/status/1391502605378064390

I can’t wait to unsubscribe to all these threads soon.

Holy Sh1te positivity rate has doubled :eek:

First Up

Ficheall wrote:

Fair enough - I've not heard of them and my (very brief) google yielded nada. I think this "blew up" largely because of the Nolan tweet. I think if people are properly instructed and if they administer them properly (I would definitely be reluctant to stick the swab up my nose and swirl it around several times), and if they then react as advised to (isolate if positive, take the usual precautions if negative), then they would definitely be useful. There's just a lot of "ifs" there at the mo.

You didn't Google very hard. Loads of online offers as well as Boots and other pharmacies

Ficheall

First Up wrote: »

You didn't Google very hard. Loads of online offers as well as Boots and other pharmacies

I did say very brief - but presumably then you can easily link to a couple of Irish pharmacies where the self-tests are available for sale?

SSeanSS

Girlfriend went to a&e yesterday with stomach cramps, it turned out to be covid. We suspected that morning it might be so we did an antigen test, that came back negative. I've got a test for later and my antigen test came back negative too.

SSeanSS

Should add antigen tests were from expressppe.ie

JP Liz V1

SSeanSS wrote: »

Girlfriend went to a&e yesterday with stomach cramps, it turned out to be covid. We suspected that morning it might be so we did an antigen test, that came back negative. I've got a test for later and my antigen test came back negative too.

I hope ye both will be ok soon, not too sick

Wolf359f

Working class heroes wrote: »

Holy Sh1te positivity rate has doubled :eek:

Exactly what rte will report when we get there lol.

Stormyteacup

Ficheall wrote: »

Fair enough - I've not heard of them and my (very brief) google yielded nada. I think this "blew up" largely because of the Nolan tweet. I think if people are properly instructed and if they administer them properly (I would definitely be reluctant to stick the swab up my nose and swirl it around several times), and if they then react as advised to (isolate if positive, take the usual precautions if negative), then they would definitely be useful. There's just a lot of "ifs" there at the mo.


A friend in Germany (anecdotal, aye, and possibly with a more cautious view because her grandfather died of covid) says self-tests aren't accepted for entry to shops etc. I've asked a couple of other friends over there what the story is to see if that's true but they've not got back to me yet.

They definitely had/have a role to play and imo wouldn’t be difficult to ensure people understood that role.

In February Austria sent their kids back to school. The primary kids are administered a test at home by their parents twice a week, and older children self-administer in school twice a week.

It’s understood there that the test is only a snapshot on a given day, and all the usual precautions should still be observed.

But Nolan’s tweet was myopic and petty, and if he thinks so little of the intelligence of the general public he should at least try harder to hide it.

Lidl operate in countries that have been using government-sanctioned EU-approved antigen tests for months, but it’s also fair to say they should be selling them to a public already educated about them.

gozunda

First Up wrote: »

Antigen test kits are on sale in pharmacies too but the only negative comments seem to be about the ones in Lidl.

What's the difference?

To be fair there's plenty of discussion on all types of antigen tests, how they work, accuracy tbf. Its evident that not all antigen tests are the same - different makes vary in the viral load they can detect.

That said the ones lidl are pushing are no better or worse than some of the other antigen tests. The issue with any of these is twofold - in that they don't work with asymptomatic covid infections and perhaps more importantly that the accuracy done at home is significantly lower than the same antigen tests undertaken by professionals.

Derek Zoolander

gozunda wrote: »

To be fair there's plenty of discussion on all types of antigen tests, how they work, accuracy tbf. Its evident that not all antigen tests are the same - different makes vary in the viral load they can detect.

That said the ones lidl are pushing are no better or worse than some of the other antigen tests. The issue with any of these is that the accuracy done at home is significant lower than the same tests undertaken by professionals

Thats nonsense - they clearly are better than some given they have EU approval.

How sensitive they are is a different conversation but minimally as part of any discussion it should be acknowledged that they are approved by EU

gozunda

Derek Zoolander wrote: »

Thats nonsense - they clearly are better than some given they have EU approval.

How sensitive they are is a different conversation but minimally as part of any discussion it should be acknowledged that they are approved by EU

What is "nonsense" exactly? Perhaps you could be a bit more precise and actually provide some counter argument.

And I say they're neither better nor worse - just that there are differences between Antigen tests.

This has already been posted. Research shows at home testing is less sensitive to the same tests carried out by professionals. But by all means if sand head burying seems appropriate - then so be it.



But a question. How exactly are lidls antigen tests in your opinion "clearly are better than some given they have EU approval"?

Are they better than some other antigen tests (with the same EU approval) or are they no better or worse as I clearly stated? Or do you wish to engage in pedentacism?

First Up

Ficheall wrote:

I did say very brief - but presumably then you can easily link to a couple of Irish pharmacies where the self-tests are available for sale?

Presumably you know how to use Google (search under Antigen test). Or if that's too hard, you could drop into a pharmacy near you.

Ficheall

First Up wrote: »

Presumably you know how to use Google (search under Antigen test). Or if that's too hard, you could drop into a pharmacy near you.

You mean you couldn't find any either?

Derek Zoolander

gozunda wrote: »

What is "nonsense" exactly? Perhaps you could be a bit more precise and actually provide some counter argument.

And I say they're neither better nor worse - just that there are differences between Antigen tests.

This has already been posted. Research shows at home testing is less sensitive to the same tests carried out by professionals. But by all means if sand head burying seems appropriate - then so be it.



But a question. How exactly are lidls antigen tests in your opinion "clearly are better than some given they have EU approval"?

Are they better than some other antigen tests (with the same EU approval) or are they no better or worse as I clearly stated? Or do you wish to engage in pedentacism?

As with any medical device approval process, any device that has been approved has met specific criteria -

other antigen tests that are not approved has not met that criteria

Therefore some are better for the purpose than others in their ability to meet the medical device criteria.

First Up

Ficheall wrote:

You mean you couldn't find any either?

I'm not doing your homework for you.

Ficheall

First Up wrote: »

I'm not doing your homework for you.

Was just asking you to back up your assertion, that's all.

seamus

First Up wrote: »

I'm not doing your homework for you.

To be fair, if you google "at home antigen test ireland", you don't get any results on the first page for pharmacies who are selling these. Some can be bought online, but if they are selling them, the big chains aren't making a song and dance about.

So if they are being sold, it's only in niches and not widespread like Lidl.

First Up

Ficheall wrote:

Was just asking you to back up your assertion, that's all.

My local pharmacy has them. Try yours

First Up

seamus wrote:

To be fair, if you google "at home antigen test ireland", you don't get any results on the first page for pharmacies who are selling these. Some can be bought online, but if they are selling them, the big chains aren't making a song and dance about.

You get a string of places selling them online and you could walk into your local pharmacy and ask them.

But the point is that home antigen tests are widely available to anyone who bothers to look. So why is Lidl's the only one causing concern?

brooke72

in fact, it's scary that there have already been so many talks about covid, so many victims, but a year has passed (a little more) and it is not clear when everything might end

podgeandrodge

First Up wrote: »

You get a string of places selling them online and you could walk into your local pharmacy and ask them.

But the point is that home antigen tests are widely available to anyone who bothers to look. So why is Lidl's the only one causing concern?

This is it really. The narky condescending attitude displayed by Holohan and Nolan reeks of an unsubstantiated concern. You'd wonder if they would have been so sarcastic if it was Boots doing it.

brooke72

brooke72 wrote: »

in fact, it's scary that there have already been so many talks about covid, so many victims, but a year has passed (a little more) and it is not clear when everything might end

Its ending. I'll be fully vaccinated by the end of June and as far as I am concerned I'm done with it....travelling, seeing my friends and family As more people are vaccinated, more will feel the same.

podgeandrodge

The European Centre for Disease Prevention and Control published a report in March 2021 on self tests. While it was concerned that self tests would not be reported to public authorities and so not contribute to official figures, it noted the results of various studies carried out on the self tests. Not all were favourable from what I can see, though they did not rule out their usefulness.

Link here - as there are lots of findings, and I know I will be accused of cherry picking so feel free to find the negatives on your own time!
https://www.ecdc.europa.eu/sites/default/files/documents/Considerations-for-the-use-of-self-tests-for-COVID-19-in-the-EU-EEA.pdf


They noted that one study found:

"the agreement of results between a self-test and a test performed by health professionals was assessed. It was concluded that when people swabbed their own noses and completed an unnamed rapid test approved by the World Health Organization (WHO), the sensitivities were very similar to those achieved by antigen testing performed by professionals, despite the fact that the individuals often deviated from the instructions. The positive percent agreement between the results of self-testing and professional testing using
RADT was 91.4% (95% CI 77.6-97.0), while the negative percent agreement was 99.1% (95%CI 95.0-100).
Although deviations in sampling and testing (e.g. incomplete self-sampling or extraction procedure, or imprecise volume applied on the test device) were observed in more than half of the positive samples, they conclude that results of self-administered testing can be comparable to those obtained by professionals. "

Elsewhere, they noted that: "Self-tests perform well to rule out positivity (the certainty is high that a negative result is truly negative) in scenarios with low prevalence (~99% negative predictive value) (Figure 2). Therefore, in a scenario with low prevalence, if the self-test is negative, and no other clinical signs/symptoms are present, no additional confirmatory testing would be needed. However, in scenarios with very high prevalence (i.e. outbreaks), due to the higher likelihood of false negative results, laboratory-based tests (i.e. RT-PCR) would be needed to confirm a negative result."

In that report, I see that:

"In Austria, self-tests have become available under a special national regulatory process [21] and are being incorporated into the testing strategy of the Ministry of Health[22]. From the beginning of March, self-tests have been distributed by pharmacies to individuals with registered national health insurance with a maximum of five tests provided per person per month for free [22]. Instructions on what to do if the test result is positive (including self-isolation and notification to the authorities) are available on the Austrian Ministry of Health website [22]. All positive results from self-administered tests must be reported to the official health hotline and will be confirmed by
authorities using a laboratory-based test (usually RT-PCR) [22]."

So Austria seem happy with the ability of people to test themselves and the results obtained.

"In Germany, a number of self-tests recently became available for purchase in supermarkets, pharmacies, corner stores and on the internet. These self-tests are introduced following issuing of national derogations from Directive 98/79/EC [23]. It is anticipated that self-tests will be utilised to provide reassurance to individuals prior to ‘everyday situations’, like before visiting someone or going to the theatre/cinema [24]. There is currently no statutory obligation to report a positive-test result to local health authorities, however individuals with positive selftest results are requested to arrange a laboratory-based test for confirmation [24]."

Germany seem pretty happy too.


But in Ireland, Tony remains concerned, and Nolan references snake oil.

Lucas Hood

https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1391747538257072130?s=20

Ficheall

podgeandrodge wrote: »

This is it really. The narky condescending attitude displayed by Holohan and Nolan reeks of an unsubstantiated concern. You'd wonder if they would have been so sarcastic if it was Boots doing it.

The sarcasm was inappropriate, yes, but that doesn't mean the concern is.
And it's hardly unsubstantiated - given the lack of info, the less reliable test, and the fact that the tests will be administered by your average Joe, reservations are understandable. The most appropriate response, though, would have been to furnish people with info about the tests' pros&cons and in what circumstances they should be used, etc.

First Up

Ficheall wrote:

The sarcasm was inappropriate, yes, but that doesn't mean the concern is. And it's hardly unsubstantiated - given the lack of info, the less reliable test, and the fact that the tests will be administered by your average Joe, reservations are understandable. The most appropriate response, though, would have been to furnish people with info about the tests' pros&cons and in what circumstances they should be used, etc.

Of course self-administered Antigen tests are less reliable and trustworthy. I'm just curious why this only seems to have been expressed when they could be put in the same shopping trolley as sausages.

podgeandrodge

Ficheall wrote: »

The sarcasm was inappropriate, yes, but that doesn't mean the concern is.
And it's hardly unsubstantiated - given the lack of info, the less reliable test, and the fact that the tests will be administered by your average Joe, reservations are understandable. The most appropriate response, though, would have been to furnish people with info about the tests' pros&cons and in what circumstances they should be used, etc.

Agreed. But we do seem to be incredibly more cautious/concerned about their use than other EU countries. Especially if they are prone to contamination by sausages

MerlinSouthDub

Lucas Hood wrote: »

https://twitter.com/COVID19DataIE/status/1391747538257072130?s=20

7 day swab average = 441, compared to 481 1 week ago. Good.

First Up

First Up wrote: »

Of course self-administered Antigen tests are less reliable and trustworthy. I'm just curious why this only seems to have been expressed when they could be put in the same shopping trolley as sausages.

exactly it's like snobbery , so it's as good as the food it's bought with they seem to think.

if the efficacy was as much a public health issue as they say, which they do imply, then they would not be sold. These lads are pissed off they didn't get on the ground floor and do this themselves. remember Tony once said the same about masks, as did leo varadkar.. they change their standards to suit themselves.
The WHO say no masks, oh no they say YES t0 mask...oh but we're following Europe, but not when Europe slap our hands over mandatory quarantine..
Red zones are based on strains of concerns and high numbers relative to Ireland, unless you're an EU country in which case it's ok, covid wont mind...

Posters on this thread are correct when they say these guys are loving the power they have, but they're like corpse flowers the lot of them. now they're blooming and thumping out all kinds of stink!! they'll be back to normal and in the labs for another decade soon enough.