Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

tigger123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686850#Comment_117686850

People are free not to get the vaccine if they don't want to. What they're not free to do is endanger other people by not getting the vaccine and enter pubs, restaurants etc.

Polar101

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686310#Comment_117686310

Well, it's not working great for them. Another day when tens of thousands of people are getting vaccinated.

They'll have to go back to the flat earth stuff soon again.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686911#Comment_117686911

See this is the argument all the time, if you are vaccinated then what danger is a unvaccinated person putting you in? If they are such a danger then how is that gyms do not require you to have covid pass to workout, i mean you go into a gym you don't wear a mask people are sweating and breathing hard which I am sure is spreading droplets everywhere and it is not restricted to just vaccinated and nor should it be. Also looking a posts that people are putting up to say that there is no difference in spreading the virus between an unvaccinated person and vaccinated person. So again if you are vaccinated and the vaccines are working then you are not in danger, the risk is with the unvaccinated person.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686632#Comment_117686632

Sorry I misread your post.

But there's a pretty high number of confounders in those numbers that are acknowledged by the limitations. For a start they are based on people who responded. There is no mention of how many people did not respond. It isn't a stretch either to suggest people who are asymptomatic or unvaccinated infections may be less likely to respond than symptomatic.

Also from reading into it. This study occurred during what is known as "Bear Week". This an event where a large number of gay men meet up to engage in casual fun. This may have created an environment that facilitated spread.

https://twitter.com/peterstaley/status/1421215604481142785?s=19

tigger123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686961#Comment_117686961

With a pub full of vaccinated people, the disease won't spread nearly as much as it would rip through a pub of unvaccinated people.

If everyone takes the short sighted view of "I won't get vaccinated, cos everyone else will, and I'll be grand", we'd end up with no one vaccinated at all, and covid 19 would still be a massive problem. Everyone needs to play their part.

We want this sh*te to end, and we all want to get on with our lives. If that means leaving unvaccinated people standing outside in the rain, then so be it.

I'm happy that unvaccinated are being excluded. It gives them the motivation to start behaving like responsible adults.

gral6

Should we lockdown hard and sharp now in order to have meaningful Christmas?

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687004#Comment_117687004

That is an awful attitude to have that you are happy to exclude people from society and that for me is the problem. To have people happy to do this where do you draw the line?

tigger123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687023#Comment_117687023

I draw the line where people want to take advantage of everyone else being vaccinated, without taking the responsibility of getting vaccinated themselves. I'm happy to do so.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687054#Comment_117687054

But this has always been the case, there are people who take advantage in every walk of life. Do you want to exclude everyone that takes advantage of different situations or only when it impacts you? Also how is only dangerous for unvaccinated and vaccinated to mix in an indoor dining setting but yet can go into a office and work side by side with no mask 8hours a day?

tigger123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687081#Comment_117687081

I'm not excluding anyone, people deciding to not get the vaccine are excluding themselves.

Covid 19 is a once in a lifetime event, that has meant we've had to reorganise how we live our lives. Not everyone is on board with that, and that's fine. But they're not going to disrupt things for those of us that accept this new reality and get one with things.

I'm lucky enough to live in a country that has ready access to a vaccine, and a health service that has, overall, done an incredible job in dealing with this.

Worztron

What percent of those currently in ICU are unvaccinated, partially vaccinated and fully vaccinated? Thanks.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687121#Comment_117687121

But they are being excluded by legislation that you support and are happy with and it is not right. As I said which you haven't answered if the vaccines are working then what worries does anyone who is vaccinated have as far as I can see it is the people who are not vaccinated that carry all the risk, so if they are willing to accept that risk they why should they be excluded especially as you say getting the vaccine is a choice so it should be a choice with no pre-conditions.

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686850#Comment_117686850

People don’t have to get the vaccine if they don’t want to. No one is forcing them, the big issue came when pubs reopened and a vaccine being required to sit in doors.

This so completely justified in my opinion, if someone decides not to get the vaccine than that is fine, however, they will put others at risk. That’s the problem and it’s backed up by science.

The division in society is not created by government it’s created by people who are opting against immunisation. Each to there own but that’s the decision they have made so they should accept the repercussions ns

tigger123

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687167#Comment_117687167

But its not just you that carries the risk if you're unvaccinated.

If enough people remain unvaccinated, hospital admissions increase, putting more pressure on our health services, and leading to the cancellation of other health services for other people.

There are also people who can't get vaccinated, for valid reasons. By decreasing the spread of the disease, we are protecting these people who may end up catching covid and getting seriously ill or dying.

By getting vaccinated and reducing transmission you are also reducing the chance of people (vaccinated or not) of getting long covid.

Its not just you this will effect. Its bigger than that, and has wide ranging consequences.

So, if people don't want to get vaccinated, I'm happy they're being excluded from settings where they can potentially harm other people.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685651#Comment_117685651

That was because ICUs were already dealing with cases from the October peak .

Starting from a lower base in this wave

Most severe cases go straight to ICU if there is a bed available, but in this rise and in October it is a slower burn .

We are seeing patients who have been sick for 5 days or more and slowly getting worse now as in October , pneumonia, clotting problems , renal .

Much fewer than before but a steady trickle.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687231#Comment_117687231

If that is the case why not exclude them from every setting why only indoor dining and pubs?

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687225#Comment_117687225

So before this month anyone unvaccinated and vaccinated had the same rights, they could all do the same things but now unvaccinated are seen as unclean and therefore are being excluded from certain aspects of society, indoor dining and pubs for the moment but could be extended and you are happy with that. How can you be happy with discriminating against people? You can dress it up anyway you like but it is discrimination.

Relax brah

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687081#Comment_117687081

Silly logic here (or lack of.) I am classified as an “at risk” person, i had cancer in my teens. If I catch covid than I could be in big trouble.

I followed all guidelines and took the vaccine so I can enjoy life. However, I am not fully protected - I wouldn’t feel comfortable sitting in a pub or restaurant around people who could infect me aswell. It’s not a decision I made to get sick, it just happened - should I have to lock myself in doors and not eat indoors because people don’t want to be immunised?

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687267#Comment_117687267

No it's not. I found out that I am asthmatic so if I get covid it could be dangerous for me, I don't know maybe it will maybe it won't but I still don't support this discrimination no matter how much risk I am at, I will do what I need to lessen the risk to me but that's it i still think that everything should be open to everyone without restrictions.

CalamariFritti

I dont know your personal circumstances guys and whether you are still under treatment or not. And I hope all is well in any case.

But we cant describe anyone and everyone who had something at some stage of their lives as high risk and use them as a stick to beat others with.

the kelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687267#Comment_117687267

So it’s ok as long as it ensures you feel safer?

You say you took the vaccine cos you wanted to enjoy life yet seem happy to exclude others who might want to do the same, in other words your happy with discrimination because it benefits you!

tigger123

"Don't discriminate against me for having a few pints and then wanting to drive home afterwards".

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685838#Comment_117685838

I agree totally with this , just that we need to be aware that ICU numbers are and will going up over the next month or so as once people are hospitalised with this a certain percentage will end up in ICU .

That metric is less so in this wave as patients are generally younger , mean age 54 , but that is still a high enough risk to severe illness and death once sick enough to be hospitalised, in those not fully vaccinated .

I don't see it being overwhelming , it is very manageable at the moment , but we are not out of the woods yet .

We will have a slow rise with a plateau over the next month / six weeks , in ICU I am talking about . Once admitted there unfortunately it is not easy to say how long any individual will be there and what course their illness will take or how severe. Treatment has improved and is working better and quicker now since this began but every individual is just that , an individual .

That may impinge on other services briefly but hopefully by late September / October the full impact of all the vaccinations will be felt and apart from the odd bump , hoping to get back to something like normal .

PowerToWait

The great irony in this discrimination debate, especially in Ireland, is the most vocal are almost exclusively from a political ideology that has racial discrimination, hatred of foreigners, ultra nationalism and plain cuntishness at its core. Proud patriots.

tigger123

The debate is a moot point anyway. Government has made the correct decision IMO. A small minority of people are arguing with it.

Floppybits

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687325#Comment_117687325

That is a rather sweeping statement you just made there. I am against this discrimination but want no part of any political party that would have those views. Actually I wouldn't want to associated with any political party I would like to think I can make up my own mind.

User1998

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687267#Comment_117687267

In my opinion if you are afraid to be in the same pub/restaurant as other people despite being vaccinated then you should probably avoid those settings and let others get on with their life

daydorunrun

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117687267#Comment_117687267

FYI hundreds of thousands of kids and staff are unvaccinated and can use/inhabit the same indoor hospitality as you. Not to mention that vaccinated can still catch and spread viral load equally to unvaccinated.

Goldengirl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117685834#Comment_117685834

Really all that is going on there Calamari, is poor data and IT systems and worries about GDPR .

They said as much at the HSE briefing, and that will take a while to realise given what has happened over the last couple of months with the hack .

Better more integrated IT needed all over the hospital and health systems , but GDPR limits a lot of what can be used , or published .

Most of the data that you see from other countries has come from major IT systems that in the US for example have very less restrictive laws on publishing data , than EU . Other data comes from major studies large samples , where patients give consent gir their data to be used , such as those from The Netherlands and Denmark .

That is why our data is so limited. No big conspiracy .

If everything was published like some other countries, there would be an outcry from so many people and complaints to the Commissioner for Data Protection.

Stormyteacup

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117686638#Comment_117686638

You can still count them as covid positive. But a distinction between Covid positive and presenting to hospital solely on account of covid symptoms, and being admitted to hospital for non-covid related illness but subsequently testing positive for Covid, is now being asked for.

It may make little difference to management in hospital of Covid cases but it makes a huge difference if the public is told 3 - 6% of people who contract Covid will need to be hospitalised when it may be much less.

if Covid response public policy is being decided in part based on something that is completely beyond the public’s ability to mitigate, then it should be clearly communicated. The general population has been at times castigated by decision-makers, and parts of society have been blamed and shamed and have turned on one another, possibly for reasons pretty much out of their control no matter how compliant we are with regulations or how high a vaccination uptake is observed.

The manipulation is sinister.