Covid 19 Part XXXV-956,720 ROI (5,952 deaths) 452,946 NI (3,002 deaths) (08/01) Read OP

seamus

Low vaccination rates and loose restrictions really starting to bite in Germany now. Hospitals reporting that they're out of ICU beds and full up with unvaccinated cases.

Restrictions on the unvaccinated through winter seem inevitable in most of Europe now. The step nobody wanted to take, but the numbers don't lie; the pressure on hospitals is almost entirely down to the unvaccinated.

You can either restrict everyone to protect the unvaccinated or restrict the unvaccinated to protect themselves. The choice is obvious.

We might squeak through without having to. Just about rescued by our high uptake.

Sweet.Science

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184782#Comment_118184782

How do you restrict unvaccinated ? Even if we wanted to

ganoga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184782#Comment_118184782

You can either restrict everyone to protect the unvaccinated or restrict the unvaccinated to protect themselves. The choice is obvious.

how about no restrictions for anybody?

crossman47

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184843#Comment_118184843

Yeah, grand, and accept the high death rate when ICU can't cope.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184811#Comment_118184811

Random checks by Gardai on the streets and a big fine if youre unvaccinated and are outside of your home for a non essential reason

crazy stuff but being done in Austria already

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184505#Comment_118184505

Read the title of that box. It's in reference to specific underlying conditions, not all underlying conditions. A BMI greater than 40 is morbid obesity, the condition to which the table refers.

Nowhere defines obesity as over 40, that's just your misleading interpretation. HSE defines obesity as over 30.

Funsterdelux

Will you make an effort to reduce your social contacts in the lead up to Christmas?

Poll Results:

Yes (577) 68%

No (233) 27%

I'm not sure (35)

@ 45 mins

https://www.thejournal.ie/poll-reduce-social-contacts-christmas-5604962-Nov2021/

titan18

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184869#Comment_118184869

Always thought obesity was categorised as over 35 myself, and over 40 was like the more serious form. Think they used 35 for cohort 7 and 40 for cohort 4.

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184843#Comment_118184843

How does that work then? When there are more people than the ICUs can cope with, what do we do then?

Like I say, we might squeak by this time, but if our vax rates were lower; say 80%; our ICU numbers would be approaching 200 at the moment, virtually all available capacity in the system completely exhausted, and no sign of any easing.

What would we do then?

That's the reality that some other countries are facing.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184954#Comment_118184954

They did for the purpose of the vaccines. But if you look at the table Fintan posted there was a logic to that. Morbid Obesity is a risk, but the risk associated with it is lower than all the other conditions they looked at with the exception of liver disease, so you can conclude that less severe obesity isn't that big a risk factor comparatively.

timmyntc

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184968#Comment_118184968

Same thing we do every year when ICU and hospital beds run out due to flu and other seasonal infections.

This has been happening every winter for decades - hospitals overflowing with patients on trolleys, people dying in hallways. That is the "old normal"

is_that_so

Hospitals up 9 to 643 this morning.

Furze99

Concerning report on RTE radio yesterday evening that vaccination take up has been poor among the travelling community in Ireland. Likely not unique in them as other various ethnic groups seem to have low take up as well, maybe due to language barriers.

What's concerning about the travellers though is that they already often live in cramped conditions, have on the whole poorer health. Were noticeably 'happy go lucky' with the restrictions both last year and earlier this year as regards large gatherings.

Are there any figures on what percentages they are making up of hospital & ICU admissions for Covid related illness?

I don't want to be targeting one particular group.. but if there is a problem, this has to be sorted pronto for the sake of the rest of society.

Spiderman0081

I think we should restrict the movements of the unvaccinated, and everyone who is eligible for a booster but hasn’t taken one.

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185068#Comment_118185068

That means almost everyone under 80, along with the 40% of 12-15 year olds unvaccinated!

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184995#Comment_118184995

Speaking as someone who is vaccinated, it is a frightening route for society to take to restrict one group based on personal choice.

In the health vs freedom debate, health is winning for the 1st time in history

Where does it stop?

A significant number of illnesses are due to lifestyle choices.

Obesity, smoking & alcohol related illness likely make up the majority of hospital patient issues since the beginning of modern healthcare.

It's easy to restrictions people based on those metrics to reduce pressure on our health service.

Young healthy unvaccinated should not have movements restricted. I'd say you could count on one finger how many fit healthy under 40s needed ICU support.

On the other hand, the unvaccinated and unhealthy, (the ones likely in ICU), should really understand the risks.

The definition is important, unvaccinated and healthy/ unvaccinated and unhealthy, so if we are planning stop the free movement of the unvaccinated, we must define the risk level 1st

Edit: I'm referring more to Europe.

All Ireland did was punish and restrict the vaccinated this week, that's the funny part

yourdeadwright

So yesterday there was reports there was only 1 person in ICU who was fully vaxxed with no underlying health conditions ,

SO the vaccine are helping to stop people getting very sick

But in Roy Keane style that one person needs to have a hard look in the mirror and sort there **** out & stop letting the side down, come on whoever you are get your act together & get yourself out of ICU ....(im joking...kind of )

ganoga

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185068#Comment_118185068

I think we should restrict people who share this thought process

Spiderman0081

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185078#Comment_118185078

It’s unfortunately what needs to be done. Those who choose not to take the booster must now be considered anti-vaxxers. Because that’s what they are.

cheezums

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185038#Comment_118185038

I was listening to that yesterday, the traveller was talking all the rumours and misinformation that some travellers believe. One of them was that the vaccine turns you magnetic and cutlery will stick to you. Not a million miles away from some of the rubbish spouted on this forum on a daily basis. Misinformation is absolutely rampant nowadays unfortunately. It's sad so many people hear something on a facebook group or whatsapp and instantly believe it without even attempting to fact check it which in most cases can be done in seconds.

bloopy

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185101#Comment_118185101

It is already happening to an extent.

I'm finding that those who gone to the extreme on this whole thing are starting to not get invited on nights out. It is too much hassle with arguments and complaining if you are in a venue that might not be sticking completely rigid to the rules.

the kelt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185038#Comment_118185038

Its a bit lazy to go back around to be fair.

I mean we've already blamed the travellers, would have thought they could have come up with some new bogeymen to distract everyone.

Guess it will be turn of shebheens again soon, followed by another round of the unvaxxed when the boosters are rolled out and then a new rap version of "we all partied at Christmas dont ye know"

is_that_so

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185113#Comment_118185113

The vast majority can't because we have barely started on the over 70s so this is really not much of a plan. Outcomes for the younger groups generally do not mean hospitalisations.

crossman47

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184995#Comment_118184995

Other years are an entirely different scenario. We have never run out of ICU beds. Yes, people have been left on trollies . These are sick but are admitted immediately if urgent treatment is needed. This is what triage does but it would run out of road if Covid was let run riot.

FintanMcluskey

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184983#Comment_118184983

Nope, that rubbish is why we aren't actually going to solve the problem

Obesity is the cause not the symptom.

Obesity is a result of poor lifestyle choices.

The only reason morbid obesity was a lower stat in ICU is because so few are actually that size. They dont survive long.

Whats the stats readjusted for a BMI of 30???

There was a very interesting report published I'll link it here

https://www.worldobesityday.org/assets/downloads/COVID-19_and_Obesity-The_2021_Atlas.pdf

As we show in this report, increased bodyweight is the second greatest predictor of hospitalisation and a high risk of death for people suffering from COVID-19. Only old age rates as a higher risk factor. The unprecedented economic costs of COVID-19 are largely due to the measures taken to avoid the excess hospitalisation and need for treatment of the disease. Reducing one major risk factor, overweight, would have resulted in far less stress on health services and reduced the need to protect those services from being overwhelmed.

We show that in those countries where overweight affects only a minority of the adult population, the rates of death from COVID-19 are typically less than one tenth the levels found in countries where overweight affects the majority of adults. We also show that the drivers of overweight – especially high levels of consumption of processed foods – are associated with mortality from COVID-19.Lastly, we show that COVID-19 is not a special case: a number of other respiratory viruses lead to more severe consequences in people living with excess bodyweight, giving good reasons to expect the next pandemic to have similar effects. 

Interestingly, a study in the UK found that for people with a BMI of 35 to 40, risk of death from COVID-19 increases by 40% and with a BMI over 40 by 90%, compared to those not living with obesity. Other data found that in intensive care units, 7.9% of critically ill patients with COVID-19 had a BMI over 40 compared with 2.9% of the general population.

If we are serious about relieving the pressure on the health service for the next few years, one simple measure could help us achieve that

seamus

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118184995#Comment_118184995

As I say, I'm mostly talking about other countries who don't have the luxury of a 90%+ vaccination rate.

Using surge capacity is normal for us, but ICU patients specifically on A&E trollies and dying in hallways, is not. We scrape through by the skin of our teeth with ICUs full to the brim. And it's quite likely we will this year too.

I've already said exactly what you said in my previous posts. That Ireland's current situation is not far departed from a typical Winter, so based on current figures we can just get the head down and get through.

But if we had lower vaccination rates, it wouldn't be a typical Winter. Even as it is, the burden being placed on our health system by 10% unvaccinated, is immense. If that was 15%, we'd have to forget about coping and think about new measures.

That's the reality for many EU countries at the moment.

SupplyandDemandZone

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183837#Comment_118183837

Fair play Bertie. We've a couple of house parties arranged this weekend after the staff Xmas party had hoped it would be a late one in Dublin city centre but the twitchers have won out again so needs must. Life goes on 😊

Ah_well.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118185117#Comment_118185117

The vaccine turns you magnetic and cutlery sticks to you! 😂😂 How can anyone believe that ? I’m sorry you can say misinformation is rife and damaging. I’d agree but theres no excuse for swallowing that . You’d have to be Neolithic man to believe that .

Ah_well.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/118183837#Comment_118183837

How’s the head Bertie ??

Sweet.Science

Coppers opening from 6pm to midnight. Nice to see them call the Governments bluff. Close them or dont €€