Garden tree for screening

galaxy12

Looking to have a tree in the back garden for screening an awkward spot which faces the back window a house in the next row.
The garden being north facing we plan having just one tree which acts both as a screen and adds interest .
Can cornus Florida /dogwood be an option and would they grow up to around 4 mtrs..

Are there any other trees I should consider and can perhaps grow fast..

Xander10

Bamboo

macraignil

The RHS page for cornus florida does say it grows to 4-8metres and another option to consider might be Arbutus unedo. Some varieties of cotoneaster, crab apple and amelanchier also can make nice small trees.

KaneToad

Willow.

Bervbers

You need fast growing trees that stays green on winter

JPup

Might be an idea to plant bamboo and a tree. The bamboo will give you decent coverage in two years. Then let the tree grow up over a decade or so and decide then if you want to keep the bamboo. Chances are you will.

Look for bamboos that don’t run or you’ll have a lot of work keeping it where you want it.

galaxy12

macraignil wrote: »

The RHS page for cornus florida does say it grows to 4-8metres and another option to consider might be Arbutus unedo. Some varieties of cotoneaster, crab apple and amelanchier also can make nice small trees.

Thanks . Yes I did spot a small amelanchier recently at garden centre in rush .could be an option .

macraignil

galaxy12 wrote: »

Thanks . Yes I did spot a small amelanchier recently at garden centre in rush .could be an option .

Looks to be a nice example alright. They have nice flowers and leaf colour in spring, berries in summer and good leaf colour again in autumn so am happy to have a few growing in my own garden.

okedoke

galaxy12 wrote: »

Thanks . Yes I did spot a small amelanchier recently at garden centre in rush .could be an option .

I’m looking at planting a similar sized one in the autumn - how much was that one do you know?

galaxy12

okedoke wrote: »

I’m looking at planting a similar sized one in the autumn - how much was that one do you know?

It was 200 euros

Nobody can properly advise you without first seeing the garden, seeing the place where you want to plant it, and seeing what you want to hide. It's also necessary to know the light levels of the spot where the tree will go.

Then it would be possible to give you real options (including the best structure of the tree) rather than random suggestions that might not be appropriate at all.

But off the top of my head, you'll probably need a multistem, feathered or top-grafted specimen that won't grow more than 5-6m high. You haven't told us the width of your plot so the Cornus option might or might not be too wide.

You also want interest, so in my opinion, an evergreen might not do the job.

You could go for a:

• fastigiate, feathered / topiary beech (Fagus sylvatica Dawyck, with annual trim required).
• feathered Prunus serrulata Amanogawa (this would give you excellent blossoms from tip to toe in late April / early May), a green column of leaves for the summer, and excellent autumn color, but scraggly twigs in winter). These are narrow, so you could plant two close together for added density.
• A non multistem option, Acer platanoides globosum - might not be suitable given that these have a clear stem of 2m, but a very dense mass of twigs that look interesting in winter, excellent autumn color, excellent spring interest from mid-March with yellow flowers, a lovely green crown in summer. If the position allows, this could definitely hide upper windows from a neighbouring house. Its 2m clear stem would not impinge on people in your garden (i.e. no low branches taking up space / getting in the way of people).

There is a huge caveat though -- sunlight. If the planting spot gets less than 6 hours of sun per day, most trees won't do well.

Also, regarding size, some posters are advising you to wait a decade or so for the tree to grow! If you have a budget of 300-400 euros, you could already buy a tree that has the height you want from a nursery (not a garden center). Generally, 16-18cm girth or 18-20cm girth will have the height you need. Prunus Amanagowa bought at 18-20cm girth for example would already be around 5-6m high and cost around EUR 400 including planting.

Acer globosum is typically grafted with a 2.2m clearstem and a pruned lollipop crown when delivered potted or root-balled, which regrows rapidly within two or three growing seasons. Again, I would not buy a specimen less than 14-16cm girth.

galaxy12

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Nobody can properly advise you without first seeing the garden, seeing the place where you want to plant it, and seeing what you want to hide. It's also necessary to know the light levels of the spot where the tree will go.

Then it would be possible to give you real options (including the best structure of the tree) rather than random suggestions that might not be appropriate at all.

But off the top of my head, you'll probably need a multistem, feathered or top-grafted specimen that won't grow more than 5-6m high. You haven't told us the width of your plot so the Cornus option might or might not be too wide.

You also want interest, so in my opinion, an evergreen might not do the job.

You could go for a:

• fastigiate, feathered / topiary beech (Fagus sylvatica Dawyck, with annual trim required).
• feathered Prunus serrulata Amanogawa (this would give you excellent blossoms from tip to toe in late April / early May), a green column of leaves for the summer, and excellent autumn color, but scraggly twigs in winter). These are narrow, so you could plant two close together for added density.
• A non multistem option, Acer platanoides globosum - might not be suitable given that these have a clear stem of 2m, but a very dense mass of twigs that look interesting in winter, excellent autumn color, excellent spring interest from mid-March with yellow flowers, a lovely green crown in summer. If the position allows, this could definitely hide upper windows from a neighbouring house. Its 2m clear stem would not impinge on people in your garden (i.e. no low branches taking up space / getting in the way of people).

There is a huge caveat though -- sunlight. If the planting spot gets less than 6 hours of sun per day, most trees won't do well.

Also, regarding size, some posters are advising you to wait a decade or so for the tree to grow! If you have a budget of 300-400 euros, you could already buy a tree that has the height you want from a nursery (not a garden center). Generally, 16-18cm girth or 18-20cm girth will have the height you need. Prunus Amanagowa bought at 18-20cm girth for example would already be around 5-6m high and cost around EUR 400 including planting.

Acer globosum is typically grafted with a 2.2m clearstem and a pruned lollipop crown when delivered potted or root-balled, which regrows rapidly within two or three growing seasons. Again, I would not buy a specimen less than 14-16cm girth.

Thanks Tomalak.
The area in the garden where we wanted to have the tree positioned does indeed get a lot of sun. My only concern is if a fully grown tree doesn't last Vs a smaller specimen which has time for roots to form.?
Any nurseries you would suggest

galaxy12

galaxy12 wrote: »

Thanks Tomalak.
The area in the garden where we wanted to have the tree positioned does indeed get a lot of sun. My only concern is if a fully grown tree doesn't last Vs a smaller specimen which has time for roots to form.?
Any nurseries you would suggest

Buying a larger tree (anywhere from 14-20cm girth) will give you decades of use. The trees will almost certainly outlive you. Buying them bigger simply means you skip the juvenile stage where the trees are basically too small to be of any use.

zerosugarbuzz

galaxy12 wrote: »

Looking to have a tree in the back garden for screening an awkward spot which faces the back window a house in the next row.
The garden being north facing we plan having just one tree which acts both as a screen and adds interest .
Can cornus Florida /dogwood be an option and would they grow up to around 4 mtrs..

Are there any other trees I should consider and can perhaps grow fast..

I bought 2 bamboo this year which are 3 metres in height, already pleased with the privacy they are adding. I bought a Paul’s Scarlet last year which will take longer to be of use but is showing good growth this year so far. Had I known I could have bought a more mature Paul’s Scarlet that’s what I would have done..

zerosugarbuzz

zerosugarbuzz wrote: »

Had I known I could have bought a more mature Paul’s Scarlet that’s what I would have done..

Just as a general tip, anything bought from a garden center will be very juvenile.
I always get my trees from a tree nursery, like Sap.

If you rely on a landscaper to provide and plant your trees, you need to be really, really specific. For example, if you want a Prunus Kanzan of good size without branches close to the ground, you would specifically request:

Prunus serulata Kanzan, 1.8m top-grafted, 18-20cm girth.

This will get you a Prunus Kanzan that has a clear, straight trunk of 1.8m (the branches only start above this height). The circumference of the trunk a foot above the ground would be 18-20cm.

Top-grafted:


Top-grafted is not the only option. If you wanted a more natural looking Kanzan, you'd request "Standard":


If you wanted a denser, more bush-like form without a trunk (for hiding a shed for example), you'd request a "multistem":



Here is a handy guide to girth.

Of course such trees are more expensive than garden center trees. But they are much bigger and more professionally grown. Buying one is like buying a very fine piece of furniture. As with furniture, you need to know what you will use it for: Are you buying it for a very particular spot, to add vertical interest in a corner, or to hide the neighbour's out-house? Do you know what it will look like in spring, summer, autumn and winter? Are you aware of its ultimate size, is it amenable to pruning? Etc.

These larger sizes of trees will almost always come with in a rootball wrapped in coconut fibers or similar material. This fibrous material is itself wrapped in degradable wire to hold it together. Neither the wrapping nor the wire should be removed. They will decompose naturally within a year or two. The planting season for rootball trees is November to late February / early March.

The roots themselves will be fibrous, as reputable nurseries continually excavate and replant the trees, meaning they develop a fibrous system that adapts well to planting in your garden, rather than big tap roots that would not respond well to transplant.

Sometimes trees of this size will be sold in huge containers rather than rootballs. These have the advantage that you can plant them any month of the year. If you have two versions of the same plant -- one rootball and one containerized, and you plant them at the same time in winter, the containerized one will usually break dormancy a few weeks before the rootballed version the first year.

You'll need a staking system to keep them in situ for 2-3 years, and you'll need to water them especially in their first two to three years.

okedoke

Does anyone know of any good nurseries near Cork. I looked at a few Amelanchiers in garden centres, similar in size to the one above, but they were around twice that price (and had to be ordered in)

okedoke

okedoke wrote: »

Does anyone know of any good nurseries near Cork. I looked at a few Amelanchiers in garden centres, similar in size to the one above, but they were around twice that price (and had to be ordered in)

You could try Nangle and Niesen in Co. Cork or Sap Nurseries outside Cahir, Co. Tipp.
They would probably deliver and plant.

okedoke

Thanks Tomolak

macraignil

Deleted User wrote: »

Buying a larger tree (anywhere from 14-20cm girth) will give you decades of use. The trees will almost certainly outlive you. Buying them bigger simply means you skip the juvenile stage where the trees are basically too small to be of any use.

Buying bigger trees also means paying for the care of those trees for years before they are moved to your garden and this is not cheap. I like having a garden where I can see things grow and planting young trees has its use in my opinion. I have planted lots of smaller trees and it is very nice to watch them mature over time and some of the smallest ones I planted are becoming the better trees when compared to some of the more mature ones. Here is a clip of some of the amelanchier in flower a few years back.

okedoke wrote: »

Does anyone know of any good nurseries near Cork. I looked at a few Amelanchiers in garden centres, similar in size to the one above, but they were around twice that price (and had to be ordered in)

Woodlands nursery in Fermoy have some less expensive amalanchier grown in containers and also other bare roots when it is the right season. Here is a link to their price list. For smaller plants the futureforests in west Cork have a very good selection and the plants I have got from them have been good quality but not grown to the large sizes and are therefore more reasonably priced than SAP or Nangles.

Deleted User wrote: »

You could try Nangle and Niesen in Co. Cork or Sap Nurseries outside Cahir, Co. Tipp.
They would probably deliver and plant.

The trees sold for a few hundred to over a thousand euro would probably need to be professionally transported and planted due to their size.

macraignil

macraignil wrote: »

Buying bigger trees also means paying for the care of those trees for years before they are moved to your garden and this is not cheap.

it’s not as expensive as one might think.

I like having a garden where I can see things grow and planting young trees has its use in my opinion. I have planted lots of smaller trees and it is very nice to watch them mature over time.

If someone wants immediate impact it makes no sense to buy a small tree. A lot of people aren’t aware that bigger trees can be bought for quite reasonable prices. If some people prefer to buy and grow smaller trees for the joy of seeing them grow, that’s something I totally understand and certainly do myself. But when I need an immediate impact, I buy a big rootball tree.

The trees sold for a few hundred to over a thousand euro would probably need to be professionally transported and planted due to their size.

Of course....rootball trees can be extremely heavy and too large for regular transport. Even so, I have had 5m trees of 20cm girth transported to my garden and planted by nursery staff for EUR 380 each. The trees provided immediate impact by blocking a neighbor’s gable end.
As a point of comparison, my wife spent 350 euro on a hallway console table from Easy Living Furniture. I know which one I think is better value!

macraignil

galaxy12 wrote: »

Looking to have a tree in the back garden for screening an awkward spot which faces the back window a house in the next row.
The garden being north facing we plan having just one tree which acts both as a screen and adds interest .
Can cornus Florida /dogwood be an option and would they grow up to around 4 mtrs..

Are there any other trees I should consider and can perhaps grow fast..

Deleted User wrote: »

it’s not as expensive as one might think.



If someone wants immediate impact it makes no sense to buy a small tree. A lot of people aren’t aware that bigger trees can be bought for quite reasonable prices. If some people prefer to buy and grow smaller trees for the joy of seeing them grow, that’s something I totally understand and certainly do myself. But when I need an immediate impact, I buy a big rootball tree.



Of course....rootball trees can be extremely heavy and too large for regular transport. Even so, I have had 5m trees of 20cm girth transported to my garden and planted by nursery staff for EUR 380 each. The trees provided immediate impact by blocking a neighbor’s gable end.
As a point of comparison, my wife spent 350 euro on a hallway console table from Easy Living Furniture. I know which one I think is better value!

Just quoting the original post from this thread as I think we are moving away from what was originally requested. This example of a five metre tree would already be a metre over what the OP was looking for before it does any more growing. To stay about 4metres it may need regular skilled pruning to stay within the desired scale to fit the garden and badly pruned trees I find can look very ugly. I know the suggestions I made could also grow over this height but it is hard to get trees that stay below 4metres that are not very slow growing like Japanese acers.



The one example that I can think of from my own garden that had a label that said it would stay to about this height was a selection of plums and eating cherry varieties I got from Lidl for about 5euro each. Here is a video clip from when I planted them and I just checked there and some of the plum trees are already reaching about 3metres in height after being in place for two years and I lightly trimmed some of their growth last summer. I personally prefer to have trees that you can see grow rather than having something that is a good comparison to a piece of furniture but I agree that for immediate impact these larger specimens have their place.


Happy gardening!

galaxy12

Thanks all .Looking at the responses my initial idea to have a multistem like Amelanchier /Dogwood may have looked nice but wouldn't solve the problem - that is provide screening .
We can hopefully have a small multistem in another part of the garden and get another /relatively larger top grafted tree screening . The plants will go down in a few weeks time and hopefully I am able to scout around over the weekend fo options....

okedoke

galaxy12 wrote: »

Thanks all .Looking at the responses my initial idea to have a multistem like Amelanchier /Dogwood may have looked nice but wouldn't solve the problem - that is provide screening .
We can hopefully have a small multistem in another part of the garden and get another /relatively larger top grafted tree screening . The plants will go down in a few weeks time and hopefully I am able to scout around over the weekend fo options....

That’s lovely looking wooden slatting you’re putting on the walls

okedoke

macraignil wrote: »

Buying bigger trees also means paying for the care of those trees for years before they are moved to your garden and this is not cheap. I like having a garden where I can see things grow and planting young trees has its use in my opinion. I have planted lots of smaller trees and it is very nice to watch them mature over time and some of the smallest ones I planted are becoming the better trees when compared to some of the more mature ones. Here is a clip of some of the amelanchier in flower a few years back.



Woodlands nursery in Fermoy have some less expensive amalanchier grown in containers and also other bare roots when it is the right season. Here is a link to their price list. For smaller plants the futureforests in west Cork have a very good selection and the plants I have got from them have been good quality but not grown to the large sizes and are therefore more reasonably priced than SAP or Nangles.





The trees sold for a few hundred to over a thousand euro would probably need to be professionally transported and planted due to their size.

Thanks Macraignil

I’ll check out Fermoy too

galaxy12

Hi again

I spoke to few of the nurseries over phone and they mentioned that the best time to get a large amelanchier is in October /November.
I am hoping prices for them are lower then as well compared to the prices listed now ..

okedoke

Hi Galaxy
What nurseries were you talking to — I’m also looking for a big amelanchier

Thanks

galaxy12

okedoke wrote: »

Hi Galaxy
What nurseries were you talking to — I’m also looking for a big amelanchier

Thanks

Caragh.They do have a large multistem amelancier available .It's very expensive though.

okedoke

Thanks Galaxy. FYI I rang Fermoy Nurseries and they have amelanchiers but theyre single stem.

hirondelle

Deleted User wrote: »

it’s not as expensive as one might think.



If someone wants immediate impact it makes no sense to buy a small tree. A lot of people aren’t aware that bigger trees can be bought for quite reasonable prices. If some people prefer to buy and grow smaller trees for the joy of seeing them grow, that’s something I totally understand and certainly do myself. But when I need an immediate impact, I buy a big rootball tree.



Of course....rootball trees can be extremely heavy and too large for regular transport. Even so, I have had 5m trees of 20cm girth transported to my garden and planted by nursery staff for EUR 380 each. The trees provided immediate impact by blocking a neighbor’s gable end.
As a point of comparison, my wife spent 350 euro on a hallway console table from Easy Living Furniture. I know which one I think is better value!

So long as the both of ye are happy:D

galaxy12

okedoke wrote: »

Thanks Galaxy. FYI I rang Fermoy Nurseries and they have amelanchiers but theyre single stem.

Thanks. Just to clarify it was 750 euros for the multi stem about 3 m high.
The gardener who showed it to me himself said that it may be cheaper around October..

I will be going down to Tully's tomorrow as well and look at the trees they have in there around this time.