Canelo V BJ Saunders - Texas - DAZN - May 8th

NewMan1982

Mysterypunter wrote: »

I wouldn't normally say this but he is a group one prick, and I'm delighted he got flattened, I was thinking of Barry McGuigan and hoping someone would teach the prick a lesson, also exposed as being just another classless mouth

I agree. I would love to have seen him taking a sustained beating over a few rounds.

House Hunt

Think he deserves credit for even seeing out the round, Dubois went down on a knee and waited for the count, and that is more in the "quit" camp. Of course BJS knew the extent of the injury straight away and didn't need the hospital diagnosis to realise his face was broken. Canelo knew it too which is why he was showboating and didn't take a seat at the end of the round. He knew BJS wasn't coming out again, just like any other fighter with that injury facing a heavy hitting pound for pound best. walshb just talks so much nonsense.

Sandor Clegane

House Hunt wrote: »

Think he deserves credit for even seeing out the round, Dubois went down on a knee and waited for the count, and that is more in the "quit" camp. Of course BJS knew the extent of the injury straight away and didn't need the hospital diagnosis to realise his face was broken. Canelo knew it too which is why he was showboating and didn't take a seat at the end of the round. He knew BJS wasn't coming out again, just like any other fighter with that injury facing a heavy hitting pound for pound best. walshb just talks so much nonsense.

Saunders deserves the criticism.

Saunders talked a big game about going out on your shield, criticized another fighter for pulling out due to the same injury, when you talk big and make big statements you have to back them up or you look a fool and leave yourself open...

Well Saunders didn't get carried out did he, he quit on his stool.

JacksonHeightsOwn

Morrison J wrote: »

Not fully true though is it. Plenty of fighters have fought on with the same injury in the past. They should be lauded more than the fighter who quits should be ridiculed though for sure.

Inoue the most recent guy to do it that comes to mind. Fought 10 rounds with a broken orbital bone and should have got a late stoppage against a P4P type puncher in Donaire. Shows how incredibly tough he is.

did Inoue have a broken orbital bone in that fight? ****, i dint even remember that, he's gone up even more in my recognition now. What a warrior!!!

House Hunt wrote: »

Think he deserves credit for even seeing out the round, Dubois went down on a knee and waited for the count, and that is more in the "quit" camp. Of course BJS knew the extent of the injury straight away and didn't need the hospital diagnosis to realise his face was broken. Canelo knew it too which is why he was showboating and didn't take a seat at the end of the round. He knew BJS wasn't coming out again, just like any other fighter with that injury facing a heavy hitting pound for pound best. walshb just talks so much nonsense.

Dubois fought at least 3 or 4 rounds with his eye badly closed before taking the knee, he certainly didnt fold like BJS did, at the first sign of trouble.

i agree with the sensibleness of quitting when you have that injury, but the sport isnt exactly "sensible" to begin with, is it.....its men getting paid to beat another man up....

and not every fighter jacks it in either. Didnt Paulie Malinagi go the distance with Cotto many moons ago with a broken jaw, orbital bone etc.........you didnt see him fannying about or crying foul

volono

Posters giving examples of others that have fought on with the same type, although unsure of severity of injuries as Saunders like it justifies keeping this "quitting" angle up. I say those boxers are the idiots, to keep fighting , risking permanent eye injury, blindness. Its beyond idiotic imo.
I remember Danny Williams v (name escapes me). He dislocated his shoulder , so was basically half disabled at that point and he still came out , fighting with one hand and got a stoppage, was amazing at the time tbf. That doesn't mean it was the right decision though imo.
As for Hands of Stone, It's been well documented what went on, there's a myriad of reasons why that fight ended the way it did.

Mysterypunter

volono wrote: »

Posters giving examples of others that have fought on with the same type, although unsure of severity of injuries as Saunders like it justifies keeping this "quitting" angle up. I say those boxers are the idiots, to keep fighting , risking permanent eye injury, blindness. Its beyond idiotic imo.
I remember Danny Williams v (name escapes me). He dislocated his shoulder , so was basically half disabled at that point and he still came out , fighting with one hand and got a stoppage, was amazing at the time tbf. That doesn't mean it was the right decision though imo.
As for Hands of Stone, It's been well documented what went on, there's a myriad of reasons why that fight ended the way it did.

Williams was fighting Mark Potter with one arm, it was a British heavyweight title fight

volono

Couldn't remember who the opponent was, thanks

YFlyer

Would he be prime now to fight Mayweather?

Frank Bullitt

walshb wrote: »

Both quit jobs.

As mentioned. Many different reasons and varieties of quitting..

It’s a gray area..

I’d say both the same..

AJ had enough and decided not to continue..

Billy had enough and decided to not continue...

Unable to continue could be used for AJ.

Saunders never said he was unable or unwilling. His silence on it said it all.

Unwilling to continue is a quit job. Happened AJ and Billy.

Worse than these two, or more quit job was Khan v Crawford..

Another interesting one is Brook v Spence. Quit, but took a real beating. Got the fight beat out of him..

For the love of god, use paragraphs, please.

Please!!!!

walshb

House Hunt wrote: »

Think he deserves credit for even seeing out the round, Dubois went down on a knee and waited for the count, and that is more in the "quit" camp. Of course BJS knew the extent of the injury straight away and didn't need the hospital diagnosis to realise his face was broken. Canelo knew it too which is why he was showboating and didn't take a seat at the end of the round. He knew BJS wasn't coming out again, just like any other fighter with that injury facing a heavy hitting pound for pound best. walshb just talks so much nonsense.

Dubois fought several rounds with the eye damaged!

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

I thought AJ just st had enough packed it in

Where i feel BJS had legitimate concern for his sight in futite life, He also had his team urging him not to continue & explaining his eye socket was most likely broken

I think they are two very different things

AJ did have enough.

So did Saunders....

So did Khan and Dubois and Rigondeaux

They’re human. It happens...

Boxing littered with examples of fighters that choose not to fight through adversity..

Irony is, that the whole sport from the first round is all about adversity..

It’s just that this adversity has levels to it.

And no boxer can say that they are immune to it..

Look at Saunders...

No boxer knows until they are in a position of real questioning..

walshb

volono wrote: »

Posters giving examples of others that have fought on with the same type, although unsure of severity of injuries as Saunders like it justifies keeping this "quitting" angle up. I say those boxers are the idiots, to keep fighting , risking permanent eye injury, blindness. Its beyond idiotic imo.
I remember Danny Williams v (name escapes me). He dislocated his shoulder , so was basically half disabled at that point and he still came out , fighting with one hand and got a stoppage, was amazing at the time tbf. That doesn't mean it was the right decision though imo.
As for Hands of Stone, It's been well documented what went on, there's a myriad of reasons why that fight ended the way it did.

They’re not idiots for fighting on with injuries..

You’re making it out that these boxers know what exact damage and injuries they have. That is not the case..

So, what: every time a boxer has some bruising or facial damage they should all retire, because it “might” be some serious injury?

It doesn’t work like that.

They’re not getting x rayed between rounds..

They have doctors there. If the doctor is called and says they are unfit to continue, so be it.

The boxers aren’t diagnosing. They’re too busy fighting.

A lot of fighters finish fights and win fights, some clearly, that then find out they have facial damage that needs hospital treatment..

Are they idiots for fighting on?

And even if a doctor steps in to say they are not to fight on and they protest, that does not make them idiots

These men give their lives to the toughest sport on earth, and in the heat of battle they are damn well entitled to protest anyone calling them to retire. So, some doctor (albeit doing his/her job and meaning well) telling a fighter they are done, and said fighter protesting this, is simply a dedicated warrior in the heat of battle not wanting to quit....they are not idiots, and it is very disrespectful to call them that for a judgment they are making while in a boxing match sitting in their corner, quite possibly fatigued/injured or whatever....most of them when they have time to reflect will know that the right call was made.

An update from the actual doctor.

titan18

Morrison J wrote: »

Not fully true though is it. Plenty of fighters have fought on with the same injury in the past. They should be lauded more than the fighter who quits should be ridiculed though for sure.

Inoue the most recent guy to do it that comes to mind. Fought 10 rounds with a broken orbital bone and should have got a late stoppage against a P4P type puncher in Donaire. Shows how incredibly tough he is.

Course, plenty have and nothing happened (so far anyway) to them afterwards.

Plenty have and are now fcuked. Israel Vasquez had his eye taken out and has some serious health problems after all his wars. Margarito was never even close to the same fighter after the damage he took against Pacquiao. Those two are in the last 10 or so years too, we can all go back further and look at stuff like McClellan which is something no one should want to see in boxing.

walshb

YFlyer wrote: »

Would he be prime now to fight Mayweather?

Canelo?

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

He also had his team urging him not to continue & explaining his eye socket was most likely broken

I must have missed this bit

I did not notice his team urging him NOT to continue

For that to happen, wouldn't he be urging himself to continue?

Was Billy not sitting blank and silent through the round break?

Tibbs then saying that from his body language and visuals he did not like what he was seeing, so he (Tibbs) decided to call it off. Billy was pretty much silent.

If Billy was showing his urge to continue then he did not quit....

I must have missed this....and if I did, I take it back about him quitting

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

I must have missed this bit

I did not notice his team urging him NOT to continue

For that to happen, wouldn't he be urging himself to continue?

Was Billy not sitting blank and silent through the round break?

Tibbs then saying that from his body language and visuals he did not like what he was seeing, so he (Tibbs) decided to call it off. Billy was pretty much silent.

If Billy was showing his urge to continue then he did not quit....

I must have missed this....and if I did, I take it back about him quitting

According to Tibbs it was his choice to pull him , but again that could be Tibbs saving face for his fighter,


Either way Canelo stopped him, I had bet on the 9th so close .

JacksonHeightsOwn

walshb wrote: »

I must have missed this bit

I did not notice his team urging him NOT to continue

For that to happen, wouldn't he be urging himself to continue?

Was Billy not sitting blank and silent through the round break?

Tibbs then saying that from his body language and visuals he did not like what he was seeing, so he (Tibbs) decided to call it off. Billy was pretty much silent.

If Billy was showing his urge to continue then he did not quit....

I must have missed this....and if I did, I take it back about him quitting

No need to apologise, you didn't miss it, because he didn't protest the stoppage, he took it sitting down without as much as a whimper.

Makes your wonder if at the highest level does bjs look for a "way out".

Didn't he do something silly to get sent home from the Beijing Olympics, if im not mistaken? Maybe has a lack of self belief so takes a way out when it's presented...

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

I must have missed this bit

I did not notice his team urging him NOT to continue

For that to happen, wouldn't he be urging himself to continue?

Was Billy not sitting blank and silent through the round break?

Tibbs then saying that from his body language and visuals he did not like what he was seeing, so he (Tibbs) decided to call it off. Billy was pretty much silent.

If Billy was showing his urge to continue then he did not quit....

I must have missed this....and if I did, I take it back about him quitting

look at canelos reaction after the punch landed and his actions for the rest of the round and in the corner after the round, he knew the fight was over, because it was a serious injury.

blade1

Cyrus wrote: »

look at canelos reaction after the punch landed and his actions for the rest of the round and in the corner after the round, he knew the fight was over, because it was a serious injury.

Some picture

walshb

Cyrus wrote: »

look at canelos reaction after the punch landed and his actions for the rest of the round and in the corner after the round, he knew the fight was over, because it was a serious injury.

Ok,

But this has nothing got to do with my post about Billy and Tibbs' interaction in the corner....

Not sure why you quoted me here with your reply....

Anyway, over and out on Saunders...

I am delighted he was beaten. I never rated him highly at all.

Good neat mover and amateur style boxer, but never for me a good/great pro

A career fighting very ordinary opposition, and when met with the world class, was well beaten.

It was mentioned here about his stamina being a factor as well. He did look really jaded in round 8....

That from all the energy wasted trying to keep Canelo at bay for 7 rounds...

I still thought he did better than I expected. He nullified Canelo's work quite a bit.

Not sure where he goes now....He may not fight again after banking that type money...

Cyrus

blade1 wrote: »

Some picture

absolutely

i have to say canelo is really letting his personality show now, his performance in the 8th, his post fight interviews and his dismissal of andrade was all excellent, the boy really is is box office.

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

Ok,

But this has nothing got to do with my post about Billy and Tibbs' interaction in the corner....

Not sure why you quoted me here with your reply....

Anyway, over and out on Saunders...

I am delighted he was beaten. I never rated him highly at all.

Good neat mover and amateur style boxer, but never for me a good/great pro

A career fighting very ordinary opposition, and when met with the world class, was well beaten.

It was mentioned here about his stamina being n factor as well. He did look really jaded in round 8....

That from all the energy wasted trying to keep Canelo at bay for 7 rounds...

I still thought he did better than I expected. He nullified Canelo's work quite a bit.

Not sure where he goes now....He may not fight again after banking that type money...

there is no point going over this, but it does have to do with your post, as he was never coming back out, he knew, canelo knew it and when he got back to the corner tibbs knew it, not because he quit, because he couldnt continue with an injury like that.

Anyway he has come up one of the all time greats and come up short, like almost everyone else he has fought, does that mean BJS was useless? i dont think so. Maybe not quite as good as i thought he might be, but he is still a two weight world champion so if that doesnt qualify as a good pro and canelo is the bench mark that must be 99.9995% of boxers.

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

Ok,

But this has nothing got to do with my post about Billy and Tibbs' interaction in the corner....

Not sure why you quoted me here with your reply....

Anyway, over and out on Saunders...

I am delighted he was beaten. I never rated him highly at all.

Good neat mover and amateur style boxer, but never for me a good/great pro

A career fighting very ordinary opposition, and when met with the world class, was well beaten.

It was mentioned here about his stamina being n factor as well. He did look really jaded in round 8....

That from all the energy wasted trying to keep Canelo at bay for 7 rounds...

I still thought he did better than I expected. He nullified Canelo's work quite a bit.

Not sure where he goes now....He may not fight again after banking that type money...

While your right about his lack of power is still think Billy has a chance against anyone in the world at that weight not called Canelo,


I think he will call it a day its a very bad injury and will lead to a lengthy spell on the side lines . He might have one last fight to go out with a W but can't see him sticking around long term,

yourdeadwright

Who are we thinking are Canelo's next 3 fights ?

Its a shame he seems to be fighting in a time when boxing is hitting at a low point ,There are some really good boxer's out there but not many household names in and around the mid range weight classes,

walshb

Cyrus wrote: »

Anyway he has come up one of the all time greats and come up short, like almost everyone else he has fought, does that mean BJS was useless? i dont think so. Maybe not quite as good as i thought he might be, but he is still a two weight world champion so if that doesnt qualify as a good pro and canelo is the bench mark that must be 99.9995% of boxers.

Nobody said he was useless. Far from it...did better than I thought. Main issue for him, that we all knew, was he had nothing on his shots to hurt or deter Canelo...For me he was never a great pro.....

Beat nobody world class, fought nobody world class......I don't rate his wins that highly

Best wins were over Eubank and Lemieux and Lee......just nothing that good really.

Canelo is on his own at SMW, which sadly, has nobody that good......look at the ratings.....Jon Ryder is considered a real challenger....

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Who are we thinking are Canelo's next 3 fights ?

Its a shame he seems to be fighting in a time when boxing is hitting at a low point ,There are some really good boxer's out there but not many household names in and around the mid range weight classes,

At SMW there is only Benavidez and Plant...

Canelo beats both. I'd love to see him fight Beterbiev and Bivol some time in 2022

Saunders and Smith should fight...domestic tear up...

No idea who would win.....Smith can look good and not so good...

I'd probably lean with Billy....too fast and never gives Smith the time to unload

Ash.J.Williams

Some light reading

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zygomaticomaxillary_complex_fracture


Watching that move on slow motion is matrix level stuff , it’s like he had 10 mins to plan it and Canelo threw everything into that eye socket and on impact as he confirmed he felt the crunch and knew it was over

Ash.J.Williams

walshb wrote: »

Nobody said he was useless. Far from it...did better than I thought. Main issue for him, that we all knew, was he had nothing on his shots to hurt or deter Canelo...For me he was never a great pro.....

Beat nobody world class, fought nobody world class......I don't rate his wins that highly

Best wins were over Eubank and Lemieux and Lee......just nothing that good really.

Canelo is on his own at SMW, which sadly, has nobody that good......look at the ratings.....Jon Ryder is considered a real challenger....

I thought at the time that Eubank should have won that and lost because of the feckin eegit in his corner , didn’t his coach even have words with senior? BJS didn’t know his arse from his elbow after that fight

ballsdeep69

Billy joe Saunders sitting ringside at Tyson vs AJ like...