Canelo V BJ Saunders - Texas - DAZN - May 8th

yourdeadwright

walshb wrote: »

You obviously missed the part where I said that they were right...

Doesn’t change the view of me, and others. Quit..

No biggy

Everyone allowed there own veiw

Mine would be Canelo done enough damage thT he was unable to continue,

Personally i dont think its quitting with an injury like that

Infact i think its dangerous amd bad for the sports for that kind of talk to even be used,

That could be a life changing injury and no fighter should feel the need to have to "tought it out" just because people at home on there sofa will think you quit,

Its not like being under pressure and packing in, its not a Broken hand or Rib that can be tuffed out, Its his eey he cluld have permentally lost his sight in a fight he wasnt goong to win

A bit much for lads at home to call him a quiter

blade1

Bit of action outside the ring as well

https://twitter.com/JackSchlez/status/1391247991491731460?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391247991491731460%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-22569363662770224713.ampproject.net%2F2104240357001%2Fframe.html

walshb

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Everyone allowed there own veiw

Mine would be Canelo done enough damage thT he was unable to continue,

Personally i dont think its quitting with an injury like that

Infact i think its dangerous amd bad for the sports for that kind of talk to even be used,

That could be a life changing injury and no fighter should feel the need to have to "tought it out" just because people at home on there sofa will think you quit,

Its not like being under pressure and packing in, its not a Broken hand or Rib that can be tuffed out, Its his eey he cluld have permentally lost his sight in a fight he wasnt goong to win

A bit much for lads at home to call him a quiter

I don’t think it’s a bit much at all

Considering his views on Dubois for the same.

Dubois, who was steadily hit clean for 10-11 rounds before quitting...

Saunders took half the beating Dubois took and then quit..

Sweet.Science

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Everyone allowed there own veiw

Mine would be Canelo done enough damage thT he was unable to continue,

Personally i dont think its quitting with an injury like that

Infact i think its dangerous amd bad for the sports for that kind of talk to even be used,

That could be a life changing injury and no fighter should feel the need to have to "tought it out" just because people at home on there sofa will think you quit,

Its not like being under pressure and packing in, its not a Broken hand or Rib that can be tuffed out, Its his eey he cluld have permentally lost his sight in a fight he wasnt goong to win

A bit much for lads at home to call him a quiter

But he wasn't knocked out , the ref didn't stop it and the doctor didn't stop it .

He quit on his stool . It's just fact . Not judging him for it .

JacksonHeightsOwn

blade1 wrote: »

Bit of action outside the ring as well

https://twitter.com/JackSchlez/status/1391247991491731460?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1391247991491731460%7Ctwgr%5E%7Ctwcon%5Es1_c10&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fd-22569363662770224713.ampproject.net%2F2104240357001%2Fframe.html

10-8 round to Canelo, no doubt in my mind!!

As for Saunders and the quitter jibe. I'm with Walshb on this one.

Some times in fights it's easier to stop than keep going on, anyone that's been in a ring knows that, and I mean anyone that even sparred as a child. You either have it in you to keep going, or you don't. It's human nature.

In the every man's daily walk off life this trait isn't tested, but unfortunately for boxers, fighters etc..... It is, and in a very public manner.

In layman's term, when it was time to $hit or get off the pot, Saunders got off the pot.

StringerBell

From the image I've seen I would say it looks more like a broken cheekbone than eye socket but I suppose we will need to wait for the x-rays if they ever come out.

Maybe both \0/

walshb

StringerBell wrote: »

From the image I've seen I would say it looks more like a broken cheekbone than eye socket but I suppose we will need to wait for the x-rays if they ever come out.

Maybe both \0/

Who needs x rays and doctors..

Saunders and his team and some boards posters have it all sorted..

Broken eye socket within minutes of the fight finishing!

blade1

StringerBell wrote: »

From the image I've seen I would say it looks more like a broken cheekbone than eye socket but I suppose we will need to wait for the x-rays if they ever come out.

Maybe both \0/

X ray is back already

Augme

walshb wrote: »

Folks are making out that he had some clear injury diagnosis..

He, at that time had a sore eye. Nothing more nothing less..he would not at all have known its severity.

It may well turn out to be a serious type injury.

Similar to Dubois. Dubois didn’t know the extent of his injury when he quit..

As far as I know the doctor earlier did not stop the fight. Saunders and his team stopped it..

And folks bringing up liking and not liking him is nothing to do with it.

He is not a likabke person. I dislike his character and demeanour. I also am not a fan of his boxing style..but that is separate..

Earlier today a boxer quit on his stool. That’s all there is to it.

Who he is, what he is, what he is like has no relevance.

I think the two issues are being wrongly conflated..

Haha, at the time he just had a sore eye and wouldn't have known the severity? Ffs. That's like saying s footballer wouldn't have known the severity of his ankle injury if his ankle is pointing in the wrong direction.

StringerBell

I thought it was clear enough, the trainer said his face was caved in, he was in tremendous pain and his eye was swelling up affecting his vision out of that eye, his lead eye. He was visibly shaking his head no when the Tibbs was either asking him did he want to go on or could he see then the corner waved it off. Said they will live to fight another day rather than go on with it.

Canelo I believe said in the post fight he knew it was over before the round ended because he knew he broke his cheek.

He quit/retired on his stool/failed to answer the bell/was unable to continue, it all amounts to the same thing really doesn't it. Not the first and certainly won't be the last.

normanoffside

Just watched the fight.
It was interesting and enjoyable while it lasted.
Saunders was doing well in places but then he quit at the first moment of distress IMO.
Very disappointing from him.

walshb

Augme wrote: »

Haha, at the time he just had a sore eye and wouldn't have known the severity? Ffs. That's like saying s footballer wouldn't have known the severity of his ankle injury if his ankle is pointing in the wrong direction.

One of the worst analogies ever!

And still no actual diagnosis..

walshb

normanoffside wrote: »

Just watched the fight.
It was interesting and enjoyable while it lasted.
Saunders was doing well in places but then he quit at the first moment of distress IMO.
Very disappointing from him.

Exactly my feeling.

And one I predicted!

titan18

I think there is a big difference between retiring due to injury and quitting as youre not up to it anymore.

When you say quitting in regards boxing, most see it as the boxer not being mentally able to continue to fight. I think that's a lot different to someone being physically injured enough that continuing to fight poses a great risk to their future life. No boxing fan should want to see that happen to someone imo. The Vasquez Marquez might have been great fights in the past but look at the long term effects this stuff had on Vasquez. No fighter should have to go through that lasting damage.

walshb

walshb wrote: »

Exactly my feeling.

And one I predicted!

You also predicted he wouldn't turn up.

Not hard to get a prediction right when you scattergun.

Canelo has dismissed the 'just a sore eye' bollocks.

He knew Saunders couldn't carry on.

walshb

titan18 wrote: »

I think there is a big difference between retiring due to injury and quitting as youre not up to it anymore.

When you say quitting in regards boxing, most see it as the boxer not being mentally able to continue to fight. I think that's a lot different to someone being physically injured enough that continuing to fight poses a great risk to their future life. No boxing fan should want to see that happen to someone imo. The Vasquez Marquez might have been great fights in the past but look at the long term effects this stuff had on Vasquez. No fighter should have to go through that lasting damage.

And the lines can be blurred here...

Needs to be analysed case by case...

Khan v Crawford? What was that, for example?

Boxers during fights are inherently being injured...

Nobody wants boxers to be sent out to be badly damaged..

I jus think last night, they decided to quit pretty much when the going started to get tough..

But probably right... he likely was not going to win, and likely to suffer further damage...

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

You also predicted he wouldn't turn up.

Not hard to get a prediction right when you scattergun.

Yes. Important to cover your bases..

Anyway, one my predictions was correct

He’d quit when it got tough..

So, happy camper is me.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

Canelo has dismissed the 'just a sore eye' bollocks.

He knew Saunders couldn't carry on.

Wouldn’t carry on

Canelo’s English was never his strong point!

titan18

walshb wrote: »

And the lines can be blurred here...

Needs to be analysed case by case...

Khan v Crawford? What was that, for example?

Boxers during fights are inherently being injured...

Nobody wants boxers to be sent out to be badly damaged..

I jus think last night, they decided to quit pretty much when the going started to get tough..

But probably right... he likely was not going to win, and likely to suffer further damage...

I was at that Khan Crawford fight and I'd say that was Khan quitting rather than retiring due to injury. There was nothing in that that causes potential permanent future injury like Saunders had imo.

If I was to go did Khan risk any permanent future injury by continuing, I'd say no. The risk wasn't any greater than second 1 of the fight. It was substantially greater in Saunders case.

ctrl-alt-delete

Saunders quit long before he sat on the stool.

He spent half of that final round trying not to get hit again on that eye. Canelo knew it too, hence the matador demeanour and not sitting in his corner - he looked like he was just looking across waiting for confirmation.

I'll give Saunders the benefit of the doubt for now.

Dr. Brian Sutterer MD vs. Walsh BS.

walshb

Deleted User wrote: »

Dr. Brian Sutterer MD vs. Walsh BS.

Let it go, Billy..

Fight’s over. Best man won

Lesser man quit...

Doctor didn’t stop it. Ref didn’t stop it

Team Saunders stopped it..

Quit!

Don’t take it so personally..

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

Let it go, Billy..

Fight’s over. Best man won

Lesser man quit...

Doctor didn’t stop it. Ref didn’t stop it

Team Saunders stopped it..

Quit!

Don’t take it so personally..

You are trolling now unless you know better than Canelo or Tibbs.

And your ability to predict the finish of a fight after suggesting every possible outcome will never cease to amaze

Sweet.Science

Just an aside

It's great when you see a boxers tactics play out

Canelo knew the uppercut was the punch to end it

He was throwing it with intent since round one missing by inches

His big body punches slowed BJS down . Bang . The uppercut landed

walshb

Cyrus wrote: »

You are trolling now unless you know better than Canelo or Tibbs.

And your ability to predict the finish of a fight after suggesting every possible outcome will never cease to amaze

Trolling?

Did ref stop it?

Did doctor stop it?

Did team Saunders stop it?

Very simple choice.....

Nothing to do with trolling. Team Saunders stopped it. They quit.

WTF has Canelo or Tibbs got to do with it?

NewMan1982

Cyrus wrote: »

You are trolling now unless you know better than Canelo or Tibbs.

And your ability to predict the finish of a fight after suggesting every possible outcome will never cease to amaze

Canelo or Tibbs aren’t going to know the extent of the damage either. Why is their opinion been taken as fact?

We will only know after a medical diagnosis the extent of the damage.

Billy Joe didn’t want to continue due to the damage. We will learn in the coming days if his instinct was right (serious injury) or if he just wasn’t able to overcome adversity (standard swollen eye etc)

Morrison J

EagererBeaver wrote: »

It might take a while but a trilogy fight with GGG, even though he's just turned 39, has to happen. He's the only fighter from 154-175 who has anything to trouble him. First fight should have been a GGG win, second could have been given to either or a draw. Wasn't the robbery loads of people claimed.

I think that ship has likely sailed. Canelo wouldn't give him the immediate trilogy fight. Three years later it'd be a shame if GGG took it and got beat clear which I think he would now at 39 far past his best.

Nights like last night remind just how good GGG was though. Wasn't even a prime Golovkin in with Canelo either. Tremendous fighter.

Coneygree

Canelo is a beast. Unlike a lot of boxers, he seems to have real urgency and wants to stay busy and fight as often as he can. His competition isn't very strong which does help but I've nothing but admiration about how he conducts himself. He's amazingly only 30 but has 60 fights under him so you'd wonder for how much longer can he stay at the top of the pack. He's so exciting though, when he lost to Floyd you'd be forgiven for thinking he was the next biggest thing that inevitably flopped but he's only gotten better with every fight.

titan18

Canelos plan seeks to be Plant who I don't think will trouble him. Benavidez would be interesting though after that as he has the power to cause issues or if Canelo went up to 175 again but against someone like Beterbiev rather than a relatively easy fight against a shot Kovalev .

walshb

Just watched it there again

Purely on visuals, I have seen far worse "looking" eye injuries...

He had a very decent first 70-80 seconds in round 8, and then Canelo took over and started to land clean....

And that was it.....

Saunders showed not a single urge to want to fight on.......

Not a dickie bird from him....

The same man who a few weeks ago said there was not an ounce of quit in him....

And who slated another pro for quitting after that pro took a more steady beat-down...

Morrison J

Caleb Plant fight would go similarly to last night. Plant well skilled but has no gas tank. Gets stopped in the latter rounds.

walshb

Plant offers more size and power, but wont beat Canelo

Cyrus

NewMan1982 wrote: »

Canelo or Tibbs aren’t going to know the extent of the damage either. Why is their opinion been taken as fact?

We will only know after a medical diagnosis the extent of the damage.

Billy Joe didn’t want to continue due to the damage. We will learn in the coming days if his instinct was right (serious injury) or if he just wasn’t able to overcome adversity (standard swollen eye etc)

I'd wager canelo or tibbs know more than you me or any one else posting here

FTA69

walshb wrote: »

Thoughts on Canelo’s performance?

Overall it was only ok. Had one real dominant round..

Up to the stoppage the fight was close.

Billy’s movement, southpaw stance and skills caused him quite a bit of inconvenience.

Saunders with good power would have caused a lot more problems..

I think he was ok. BJS’s style makes it very hard for anyone to look good against really. He had a game plan and executed it well, very much biding his time and got off some great body shots.

blade1

Score cards

walshb

Cyrus wrote: »

I'd wager canelo or tibbs know more than you me or any one else posting here

What has their opinions got to do with Saunders quitting?

Canelo had one single round where he did some real decent work...as in had Saunders in actual distress/trouble...

that single round was enough to make Saunders say enough. That is a complete quit job...

The fight up to then was quite close on the cards of many, including mine...excluding actual judges

Arguments could be made that Billy was winning....not by me, but others.

Billy and his team decided to not continue or try to because he was done...he and his team knew the better man was going to do a proper job on him, and rather than face the man, he quit....

Gamesmanship........

Hey, he's human. Many have done similar......

People getting salty and defensive and offended by it puzzles me...

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

What has their opinions got to do with Saunders quitting?

Canelo had one single round where he did some real decent work...as in had Saunders in actual distress/trouble...

that single round was enough to make Saunders say enough. That is a complete quit job...

The fight up to then was quite close on the cards of many, including mine...excluding actual judges

Arguments could be made that Billy was winning....not by me, but others.

Billy and his team decided to not continue or try to because he was done...he and his team knew the better man was going to do a proper job on him, and rather than face the man, he quit....

Gamesmanship........

Hey, he's human. Many have done similar......

People getting salty and defensive and offended by it puzzles me...

They are just responding to your unsubtle trolling style I'd imagine.

What do you mean what does tibbs and canelos opinion matter? They should know better than the rest of us, when canelo caught him he made it clear he thought the fight was over which suggests a serious injury, when tibbs saw him in the corner he came to the same conclusion. Not that hard to understand is it ?

Senor Frog

All that could well be true but we don't know until we have a proper medical opinion on it/ scans etc . Didn't look like just a swollen eye to me but I'm no doctor !

walshb

Cyrus wrote: »

They are just responding to your unsubtle trolling style I'd imagine .

No, you are clearly salty because folks are accusing him of quitting....

Why is it trolling because people think he quit?

The trolling label here just comes across as "I don't like you saying BJS quit, so I am going to call it trolling."

It's kind of a lame response...

walshb

Senor Frog wrote: »

All that could well be true but we don't know until we have a proper medical opinion on it/ scans etc . Didn't look like just a swollen eye to me but I'm no doctor !

From the video it looked like a swollen/bruised eye...

I have seen far worse...visually....Daniel Dubois, correct me if I am wrong, looked worse, no?

The mad thing is folks diagnosing it within seconds of Saunders quitting

I can't get this.......

"Broken eye socket, broken cheekbone, broken orbital, both...."

All this from a visual on the tv....

Cyrus

walshb wrote: »

No, you are clearly salty because folks are accusing him of quitting....

Why is it trolling because people think he quit?

The trolling label here just comes across as "I don't like you saying BJS quit, so I am going to call it trolling."

It's kind of a lame response...

I'm salty ? Don't think so but I tend to disagree with you a lot salty is your new response to that and I'm sure you'll get nut hugger out soon as well.

Cyrus

And just to be clear I'm no fan of bjs the person, I thought he had the ability to ask questions of canelo and he showed glimpses of that but was ultimately outclassed.

I have also said he looked silly given what he said about dubois .

But a fighter accusing a fighter of quitting is one thing. An Internet know it all doing it is quite something else.

walshb

Cyrus wrote: »

I'm salty ? Don't think so but I tend to disagree with you a lot salty is your new response to that and I'm sure you'll get nut hugger out soon as well.

We also agree from time to time....

We can come to middle ground..

BJS quit on his stool...not a single utterance of wanting to continue that I saw. That to me is a beaten man, someone who wants out.

You can simply disagree with this view....

I am not alone with it, and you are not alone with your view...

Plenty here have said he quit....not sure why my saying it gets responses..

It's kind of subjective....

The injury bit: Nobody knows even yet what the injury is...and no matter what it is, he still quit on his stool. Knowing what the injury is in time doesn't change that. Broken jaws happen in boxing a lot. Very painful, but fighters sometimes don't even know the jaw is broken till after the fight, and sometimes the pain doesn't come on till after.

Yet within seconds of the end of the fight we had diagnoses thrown around...

walshb

Cyrus wrote: »

But a fighter accusing a fighter of quitting is one thing. An Internet know it all doing it is quite something else.

So, are you saying boxing fans, proper boxing fans, hardcore fans cannot call out a fighter that they believe has quit rather than fight on?

It can only be real and justified if it's a fighter or ex fighter doing it?

FileNotFound

walshb wrote: »

So, are you saying boxing fans, proper boxing fans, hardcore fans cannot call out a fighter that they believe has quit rather than fight on?

It can only be real and justified if it's a fighter or ex fighter doing it?

Haha I've seen more fight in this thread than BJS had in him last night.

bugler

Apologies if posted already. A rather awkward exchange here on the circumstances of the decision to quit. Tibbs being cagey. Asked if BJS told him he couldn't see, Tibbs pauses for what feels like 3 minutes before refusing to discuss it.

https://youtu.be/XMFm7x9k6Eg

squinn2912

I thought it was a pretty good showing from Saunders against a guy who has so many advantages against him. He was competitive. Canelo hits hard.
On the quit debate I think there are layers to that. It’s still not obvious to me who made the call but Saunders didn’t argue much. He was gonna get hurt if he reappeared for the 9th. Big difference with Dubois is that his corner shirked their responsibility and didn’t act.
Is my call of Round 8 right then? If only i could choose the right ones to bet on !

walshb

squinn2912 wrote: »

I thought it was a pretty good showing from Saunders against a guy who has so many advantages against him. He was competitive. Canelo hits hard.
On the quit debate I think there are layers to that. It’s still not obvious to me who made the call but Saunders didn’t argue much. He was gonna get hurt if he reappeared for the 9th. Big difference with Dubois is that his corner shirked their responsibility and didn’t act.
Is my call of Round 8 right then? If only i could choose the right ones to bet on !

Tibbs said in the video he was not getting the responses-body language that he wanted from Billy

Billy showed no urge/argument to want to continue....

Corner then felt he had to be pulled out....

Looking at the video it is clear that there was no protestations or wanting to fight on. He simply kept quiet....that silence was deafening.

As others have said, BJS deserves criticism here for the way he slated others for quitting that were in distress...

Of course, his followers won't like this, but clear as day that he wanted out..

SuperBW

Can everyone just say that bjs quit to stop a certain person on this thread posting the same thing over and over and over again...