German police close gigantic child porn site

Overheal

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Good to hear they were caught, but I can't imagine too many of the 400k will be caught, only the idiots who used identifying information.

But I have a question on the overall issue, and I do like to play Devils Advocate. What age is the cut off? Are we going with the Irish age of consent, 18? Or the Ukranian one of 16? How about Japans 13? What if you were in a legal relationship in those countries, and took pictures as couples sometimes do. Should they be done for having child porn?

Valid Qs; Interpol standards maybe; someone posted the terminology page earlier and that links to the following:

RELATED DOCUMENTS

Terminology guidelines for the protection of children from sexual exploitation and sexual abuse
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The Luxembourg Guidelines


http://luxembourgguidelines.org/english-version/

Which then are the statutory definitions that any country's own statute on the law must probably follow. So, if that guideline sets age guidance than I would use what Interpol is using, I ordinarily assumed it was 18 across the board that Interpol monitored across all jurisdictions.

Every Halloween, you would need many, many hands to count all the "schoolgirl sluts" out and about on the lash.

Up until 2020 or so you could still easily find outrage stories about some costume or another being sold to children that vendors labeled 'slutty demon' etc.

Overheal

fvp4 wrote: »

How is crypto not traceable?

I don't know enough about crypto to use crypto. It seemed like another great hoax to make money out of doing nothing that somehow accidentally started making money because of its perceived value. One of them being the perhaps misapplied misconception that crypto currencies are difficult if not impossible to be hacked ie. cryptographic so if I got something wrong I'm happy to be told. I almost bought a Dogecoin, but then didn't bother with the required paperwork step.

Potential-Monke

riffmongous wrote: »

Wait, Japan is 13? Is there some caveat there?

Nope, it's 13, but apparently people are waiting longer, and it's usually in pre-arranged things, in which the older male usually doesn't consummate the marriage until a few years later. Convictions for paedophillia were only given to content creators up until 2015 or 2005, can't recall. And it's not illegal to have child porn in anime, so that's still rampant over there, even full anime series on it.

But builds my point. What we consider illegal over here, is legal in other countries, and while Overheal was nice enough to point out that Interpol uses 18, but that's not much good if the local government and laws allow it.

harmless

Overheal wrote: »

I don't know enough about crypto to use crypto. It seemed like another great hoax to make money out of doing nothing that somehow accidentally started making money because of its perceived value. One of them being the perhaps misapplied misconception that crypto currencies are difficult if not impossible to be hacked ie. cryptographic so if I got something wrong I'm happy to be told. I almost bought a Dogecoin, but then didn't bother with the required paperwork step.

Thinking of crypto as only a type of money is not looking at the big picture.
It's also so much more than cryptographic, that is only one element of it.

The technology is what is really valuable, search for uses of blockchain technology if you're interested in learning more. And that is only what has been conceived and developed so far.

There are thousands of currencies and I believe most will fail and become totally worthless.
All the different coins have flaws. The few that make the correct decisions to remove these flaws will be the ones that succeed going forward and will probably retain or increase in value.

Even knowing this it really did catch me off guard when the Europen Investment Bank registered digital bonds on the Ethereum network.

I'm still a long way off understanding it. I find the white papers heavy nevermind going any deeper.
https://ethereum.org/en/whitepaper/

fvp4 wrote: »

How is crypto not traceable?

It's not untraceable just incredibly time consuming and difficult to do so. Actaully the transactions are easy to find and lookup, anyone can do it. It's finding the identity of the owner of the wallet or wallets that is difficult. I could easily make any number of wallets for myself without giving any personal info.

Overheal

Oh for ****s sake, some of them are really this thick? or this has to be a pisstake from one of them

https://twitter.com/BadLegalTakes/status/1389411847355334660?s=20

GreeBo

KeepItLight wrote: »

i am not advocating for execution with no trial, i understand due process.

Really?

KeepItLight wrote: »

no rights for paedos, ever. there is no greater objective evil that should be wiped off the face of the planet, preferably painfully.

ohnonotgmail

Overheal wrote: »

Oh for ****s sake, some of them are really this thick? or this has to be a pisstake from one of them

https://twitter.com/BadLegalTakes/status/1389411847355334660?s=20

it seems to be real https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2021/apr/16/bentonville-man-sentenced-to-30-years-in-prison/

cgcsb

riffmongous wrote: »

Wait, Japan is 13? Is there some caveat there?

They don't talk about it in Japan, they don't talk about much of anything really in terms of social issues but peadophillia is sort of partially mainstream in Japanese media. There are child and teen female celebrities that command armies pervy fans.

Countries with low age of consent typically caveat the age of the other partner e.g. 15 is OK if the other person is under 18 or something like that.

How many of us remained virgins until 17? Not many I bet.

harmless

harmless wrote: »

Thinking of crypto as only a type of money is not looking at the big picture.
It's also so much more than cryptographic, that is only one element of it.

The technology is what is really valuable, search for uses of blockchain technology if you're interested in learning more. And that is only what has been conceived and developed so far.

There are thousands of currencies and I believe most will fail and become totally worthless.
All the different coins have flaws. The few that make the correct decisions to remove these flaws will be the ones that succeed going forward and will probably retain or increase in value.

Even knowing this it really did catch me off guard when the Europen Investment Bank registered digital bonds on the Ethereum network.

I'm still a long way off understanding it. I find the white papers heavy nevermind going any deeper.
https://ethereum.org/en/whitepaper/


It's not untraceable just incredibly time consuming and difficult to do so. Actaully the transactions are easy to find and lookup, anyone can do it. It's finding the identity of the owner of the wallet or wallets that is difficult. I could easily make any number of wallets for myself without giving any personal info.

I bet there’s numerous ways to actually work out the wallet owner. That said Bitcoin seems to only really work as a currency on the dark web, I have not seen it on Amazon, or any online purchasing platform of note.

KeepItLight

GreeBo wrote: »

Really?

yes. I said paedo, not 'person accused of paedophilia'.

As in convicted.

If someone mentions a murderer or bank robber - do you assume they are only talking about people accused, but not convicted, of these crime?
Or do you only extend this grace to child-rapists?

Meirleach

Shield wrote: »

Any technical people out there know if it's possible to get real IP addresses from this subscriber dataset? They must be tied to a purchase somewhere along the line? Asking for an overworked friend.

So a lot of these people tend to be not smart, so I wouldn't at all be surprised if some of them occasionally connected directly and didn't use TOR or whatever.

The problem with IP addresses is that they are a point in time reference. Most ISPs do not assign permanent IP addresses anymore, so even if you find 'BadGuy' connected directly via an IP address belonging to 'X ISP', depending on how long ago that was they might not have it logged which customer that IP was assigned to.

To make things more complicated the IP address they'll have will be the external address assigned to the router. So whose to say that wasn't a neighbor or guest visiting that visited the website and not the person paying for the internet connection.

Now alternatively if you get 'Bad Account' connected multiple times over several months without using TOR/VPN with multiple IP addresses belonging to 'X ISP' and the ISP logs said these were assigned to 'Joe Bloggs' on each occasion... you would likely have a much stronger case to get a warrant, seize all the electronics and start combing through them.

They won't get everyone using the site, but they'll get some of them. There's probably been a team of people crunching away on the identification problem.

Fake Scores

fvp4 wrote: »

I bet there’s numerous ways to actually work out the wallet owner.

No one has ever found out who Satoshi Nakamoto really is and his wallets have sat there for ten years with a million BTC.

Overheal

KeepItLight wrote: »

yes. I said paedo, not 'person accused of paedophilia'.

As in convicted.

If someone mentions a murderer or bank robber - do you assume they are only talking about people accused, but not convicted, of these crime?
Or do you only extend this grace to child-rapists?

You can see why people get confused, because Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder it's not something you're convicted of it's something you're diagnosed for. Sexual exploitation of a minor is a crime you can be convicted of, not actually requiring such diagnoses.

KeepItLight

Overheal wrote: »

You can see why people get confused, because Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder it's not something you're convicted of it's something you're diagnosed for. Sexual exploitation of a minor is a crime you can be convicted of, not actually requiring such diagnoses.

Nobody is confused. You are just being pedantic with the nomenclature in an effort to misrepresent people. Not playing this game with you.

You know what people are talking about in the context of this thread.

Overheal

KeepItLight wrote: »

Nobody is confused. You are just being pedantic with the nomenclature in an effort to misrepresent people. Not playing this game with you.

You know what people are talking about in the context of this thread.

If it was understood another user wouldn't have expressed confusion, so that's not true.

Fake Scores

Overheal wrote: »

You can see why people get confused, because Pedophilia is a psychiatric disorder it's not something you're convicted of it's something you're diagnosed for. Sexual exploitation of a minor is a crime you can be convicted of, not actually requiring such diagnoses.

I think it's true to say, and correct me if I am wrong, that you cannot eliminate the tendancy or attraction with people who have this disorder. You cannot "cure" them so to speak of the perversion. Only attempt to modify their reactions and behaviour. And I think there is mixed results in that department. That department also being completely reliant on someone voluntarily and in earnest engaging with such a process.


Given all that I think there is an extremely strong argument for chemical castration. If some people feel that this infringes on the well being of
such individuals then they must consider the greater good and the well being and safety of society as a whole. Carefully balancing the risks and issues. The reasoned and judicious way forward would be to deploy such 'chemical' procedures in order to eliminate the underlying, causative drive in this dangerous and scarily large cohort in our midst.

Overheal

CC is not something I have a strong conviction on in either direction. It has ups and downs. It would be better for the medical and scientific community to figure that out.

I believe you are correct and think it would be like any sexual preference it's not something you can just decide to change or be otherwise conditioned or reprogrammed from. It so happens to be a sexual preference wholly incompatible with the Harm Principle, and society at large, that when acted upon has victims, which must be prevented to protect them ie. children.

jmayo

Overheal wrote: »

That's my take yes. Very easy for rabblerousers to scream for executions and castrations but I ask seriously for what. If someone sexually assaults a minor, absolutely make your case, trying to execute those that have more meagerly just the whatever you call it, mis-wiring, mental illness, whatever, is taking it to genocidal extremes so I wondered where the line was they crossed into being executed by the mob.

Do you try pose as a contrarian for the hell of it or do you seriously believe in a lot of the shyte you post and actually believe in all this fairness to your fellow man no matter who they are and what they are ?

Those fookers who have as you claim the mis-wiring, the mental illness, that then go out looking for these type of child abuse images are enabling a whole industry that feeds off the lives of often very young kids.

There would be no sites if there wasn't a market made up of all these mis-wired fookers.
There may be no large scale industrialised abuse if there wasn't the websites and hidden underground sharing.
And there would be no huge number of victims, but for the industrialised abuse.

As another poster said you should seriously have a word with yourself about what type of people you go out on a limb to protect.

silverharp

cgcsb wrote: »

Germany has been patting its self on the back lately for taking a health lead approach on peadophilia, which they claim dramatically reduces the incidence of offending. Basically they offer potential offenders anonnymous therapy. They may be right and the location of where the ring was found is immaterial. But I wonder is the health led approach adding a degree of permissibility in what is already probably the most sexually permissive country.

Germany/Austria seems to be a bit of a hub for paraphillias such as sexual cannibalism, paedophilia and incest. I remember an interview with Joseph Fritzel in which he said "maybe you should look in other people's basements" which sounded quite chilling and indicates that there are long standing groups for these things that seem to predate the Internet. You'd wonder how these things could possibly exist before the Internet. Perhaps there's some cultural reason for this and a different relationship with violence.

People calling for extreme and barbaric punishments are a bit of an eye roll tbh. Like what will this achieve other than making treatment harder to get and increasing the number of offenders and the danger to children being held captive.

Germany does have some odd quirks , In Berlin and above board they used to let pedos foster children all the way up to 2003

PatrickIde1187

Honestly how anyone can try and defend someone who rapes a child and wants to understand the feelings they have is just mind-boggling. They dont deserve rights of any kind . A bullet would be too kind to these monsters

Jequ0n

Fake Scores wrote: »

Given all that I think there is an extremely strong argument for chemical castration. If some people feel that this infringes on the well being of
such individuals then they must consider the greater good and the well being and safety of society as a whole. Carefully balancing the risks and issues. The reasoned and judicious way forward would be to deploy such 'chemical' procedures in order to eliminate the underlying, causative drive in this dangerous and scarily large cohort in our midst.

But CC isn’t a guarantee to protect future victims.
There are countless ways to actively participate and engage in these activities or even produce material.

cgcsb

silverharp wrote: »

Germany does have some odd quirks , In Berlin and above board they used to let pedos foster children all the way up to 2003

Huh?

Overheal

jmayo wrote: »

Do you try pose as a contrarian for the hell of it or do you seriously believe in a lot of the shyte you post and actually believe in all this fairness to your fellow man no matter who they are and what they are ?

Those fookers who have as you claim the mis-wiring, the mental illness, that then go out looking for these type of child abuse images are enabling a whole industry that feeds off the lives of often very young kids.

There would be no sites if there wasn't a market made up of all these mis-wired fookers.
There may be no large scale industrialised abuse if there wasn't the websites and hidden underground sharing.
And there would be no huge number of victims, but for the industrialised abuse.

As another poster said you should seriously have a word with yourself about what type of people you go out on a limb to protect.

Actually when I spoke of mis-wiring I was referencing another user's comment that they are 'not wired right etc' that has since been nuked.

I actually believe in Civil Rights. I'm not the topic. You're not the topic. You can PM me.

Nobody here that I can tell is denying their involvement or enablement. There are doubts however that they all need to be executed for lesser offenses in the criminal enterprise ie. viewing photos online vs. physically abusing children. Alternatives, such as chemical castration, have been discussed.

Fake Scores

Jequ0n wrote: »

But CC isn’t a guarantee to protect future victims.
There are countless ways to actively participate and engage in these activities or even produce material.

So you support it in principle?

Just the current medication available is only partially effective and you will
only throw your full support behind treatments that are 100% effective?

Overheal

I at least support it where the defendant has agreed to it as part of their sentencing deal.

Forcibly imposing a medical procedure on an unwilling person flies in the face of medical ethics. It already happens with lethal injections though so you could make that argument, but the person is then dead. Here you're castrating a living person, and if they are unwilling or it is not paired with psychotherapy, there is no guarantee it will solve the issue or not create other ones, like turning them into a terrorist or something.

jmayo

Overheal wrote: »

Actually when I spoke of mis-wiring I was referencing another user's comment that they are 'not wired right etc' that has since been nuked.

I actually believe in Civil Rights. I'm not the topic. You're not the topic. You can PM me.

Nobody here that I can tell is denying their involvement or enablement. There are doubts however that they all need to be executed for lesser offenses in the criminal enterprise ie. viewing photos online vs. physically abusing children. Alternatives, such as chemical castration, have been discussed.

To me viewing the photos online is just a step removed.
They are helping an industry that is child abuse.
They are a step removed, but they are damn well guilty of being as good as a paedo.

I see it like some people view guys snorting coke, they help create and keep in business the drug pushers, the drug gangs and all that they bring.

BTW I can understand someone ends up on a site once by accident, they may be looking for drugs, guns, adult porn and they inadvertently stumble into one of these sites. But if you continue browsing, you go back time and again, then fook you.

Overheal wrote: »

I at least support it where the defendant has agreed to it as part of their sentencing deal.

Forcibly imposing a medical procedure on an unwilling person flies in the face of medical ethics. It already happens with lethal injections though so you could make that argument, but the person is then dead. Here you're castrating a living person, and if they are unwilling or it is not paired with psychotherapy, there is no guarantee it will solve the issue or not create other ones, like turning them into a terrorist or something.

So are you saying the degenerates actively going out of their way to look at child porn and support the devastation it brings to children deserve a choice, whereas the victims get no choice?

Lmkrnr

There's plenty of Peado apologists on boards.

If legislation came up for a vote to castrate Peados then it would pass overwhelmingly.

If said law was in place and someone thought they were going to do something then they should seek help before they get the chop chop.

But the law's are soft so we are where we are now.

Overheal

jmayo wrote: »

So are you saying the degenerates actively going out of their way to look at child porn and support the devastation it brings to children deserve a choice, whereas the victims get no choice?

When any criminal convicted of violating another persons civil rights is punished, the still have the same rights afforded to any other convict. We don't take eyes for eyes.

Imposing a forced castration is not going to be nearly as recidivist as one performed with the awareness and consent of the individual. So, hypothetically, provide them the option: more jail time, or court-mandated chemical castration and psychotherapy.

In a case highlighted at the front of the thread a man convicted of such offenses made the offer, which was taken up, to reduce his sentence in exchange for financial restitution paid to an anti-trafficking organization.

It's not about 'deserving' these choices but rather that choices are available to the courts to effect outcomes, like recidivism. Modern justice is not purely retributive.

Jequ0n

Fake Scores wrote: »

So you support it in principle?

Just the current medication available is only partially effective and you will
only throw your full support behind treatments that are 100% effective?

I don’t support anything in principle.

I think calling for CC in the misguided belief that this will fix the problem is nothing but naive.

If someone poses continuous danger they will need to be confined because nothing else can be done pro-actively.

If someone is willing to combat their urges and wants to go ahead with CC as part of a therapy program it might be a good idea. But there is nothing you can do if the person is unwilling to address it.

JustAThought

Jequ0n wrote: »

I don’t support anything in principle.

I think calling for CC in the misguided belief that this will fix the problem is nothing but naive.

If someone poses continuous danger they will need to be confined because nothing else can be done pro-actively.

If someone is willing to combat their urges and wants to go ahead with CC as part of a therapy program it might be a good idea. But there is nothing you can do if the person is unwilling to address it.

Thats exactly the point - they should be locked away for the rest of their natural to protect children and babies from their life destroying rapist actions.

As for the people here who support baby rapists and activities that involve those horrific crimes - you’ve shown your true colours. Continue banging your drum to allow baby rapists and the predators of children walk free and support their businesses.We know who you are now.