Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - **Read OP**

starkid

Hellrazer wrote: »

It will be dealt with by way of "caution" by the garda - in other words nothing will be done - Im currently deciding whether to take a case against the board of management of the school.

You should.

Just as in this incident with the useless security etc.

wes

fvp4 wrote: »

The issue here is not the right becoming more extreme, it’s young men terrorizing young women on a train station.

That is fair enough, and my opinion is that they should be charged for that, and its a scandal that they haven't been.

Ms. Newbie18

Hellrazer wrote: »

It will be dealt with by way of "caution" by the garda - in other words nothing will be done - Im currently deciding whether to take a case against the board of management of the school.

I hope you get satisfaction from them.

Mike Murdock

kapisko1PL wrote: »

"Excuse me boys, could you kindly not damage my car and not hit me please. Thanks in advance!"

I just cannot imagine how this could have worked. This judge is delusional.

And then wait three days for the Gardai to show up. If they ever did!

mohawk

I know teenagers especially can make mistakes and in that way they shouldn’t have the book thrown at the the very first time they step out of line (unless crime is very serious). But what we have now is no consequences ever. At some point you have to say enough is enough.
We all have young lads we know from local area that we know are going to end up in prison. They spent their teenage years committing crime after crime and you can’t say a thing to parents about them because either their child wouldn’t do that or else you could get a box off the parents. Then once they are no longer juveniles they continue to commit crime but now they might actually be charged with it a spend a couple months in prison and so the cycle repeats itself. Surely it would be far better to deal with it when they are teenagers when you have a chance to put some of them back on the right path. We usually know the future troublemakers from an early enough age and the guards do too and yet they continue.
We seem to care far more about the human rights of the perpetrator then the rights of their communities to live safe and peaceful lives.

Strumms

absolutely, better the law is used from the get go as a deterrent and to dissuade them and re-educate.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

JMNolan wrote: »

Maybe it can be finally used for good?

Would be a first....

mohawk wrote: »

Woke Cancel Culture is when someone has the ‘wrong’ opinion or says the wrong thing resulting in hurt feelings. That fella committed a physical assault against a teenage girl. Before cancel culture became a thing it was possible to be fired if you were bringing an organisation into disrepute. ( yes I know he wasn’t working for them). I would prefer those lads are prosecuted but we as a country don’t take young offending seriously.

No, "cancel" culture is the tactic used to combat said people - trying to "cancel" them or the people that support them - not the actual people themselves.

This is why I hate the attitude: it does nothing to actually engage with the person with the "wrong" opinion or the issue cancellers feel it creates. It's threat-based bullying in order to try and force compliance.

Strumms

Northernlily wrote: »

Reading global comments on twitter, this hasn't reflected well on our society. Plenty of questions being asked what type of society allows such behaviour go unchecked. And why none of the peers intervened. Seen videos on Instagram from influencer types abroad absolutely spitting fire over it. That cohort is quite powerful these days in spreading the message.

If it wasn't posted to twitter the guards would have done **** all. All of us living here in Dublin know the scourge of rats on the streets and its only a matter of time before people take the law into their own hands to tackle it.

Mike Murdock wrote: »

You shouldn't have said a word, donned a balaclava and hospitalised him away from the school.

No parent is answerable to a school principal. They however are answerable to the parent and student..

I’d have incognito recorded said conversation and sent it to the department of education/board of management as well as a solicitor..

thegetawaycar

I haven't seen politicians jumping on this and raising in the Dail? The housing issue has been once again brought to the front (and rightfully so) but I can't help but feel it's partially as the opposition don't want to have to comment on this and say how they would deal with it.

Much easier and more popular to say you will stop vulture funds than you will lock away 15 year olds.
Not 1 opposition party would/will deal with this. They want every door to open and discuss housing when they call in to canvas.

This will only change if and when people make it a political issue.

Patrick2010

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Would be a first....



No, "cancel" culture is the tactic used to combat said people - trying to "cancel" them or the people that support them - not the actual people themselves.

This is why I hate the attitude: it does nothing to actually engage with the person with the "wrong" opinion or the issue cancellers feel it creates. It's threat-based bullying in order to try and force compliance.

How does this relate to those little scrotes attacking teenage girls?

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Patrick2010 wrote: »

How does this relate to those little scrotes attacking teenage girls?

I was responding to this.

b0nk1e wrote: »

I've written to Shelbourne's shirt sponsor asking if they're proud to be associated with this young gentleman.

I would imagine the more correspondence they receive, the sooner this guy will see some consequences from Shelbourne.

Mike Murdock

thegetawaycar wrote: »

I haven't seen politicians jumping on this and raising in the Dail? The housing issue has been once again brought to the front (and rightfully so) but I can't help but feel it's partially as the opposition don't want to have to comment on this and say how they would deal with it.

Much easier and more popular to say you will stop vulture funds than you will lock away 15 year olds.
Not 1 opposition party would/will deal with this. They want every door to open and discuss housing when they call in to canvas.

This will only change if and when people make it a political issue.

Criminality has always been a political issue. Back in the 1990's, the airwaves were full of politicians talking bollocks about implementing New York's Zero Tolerance approach to policing when crime was high in the city. They even had the Chief of Police of New York on the radio talking about it. And of course, nothing happened.

They did rush legislation through that gave a mandatory 10-year sentence when syringe crime was high. Correct me if I am wrong though, but that may have been because Gardai had been threatened and one stabbed with a bloody syringe?

ThunbergsAreGo

It's probably going to get worse.

My wife teachers in a primary school in D15 and says morale is at an all time low. So many kids with attitude and issues, and their hands are tied with tackling it. Zero respect.

Most parents don't want to know.

Strumms

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

It's probably going to get worse.

My wife teachers in a primary school in D15 and says morale is at an all time low. So many kids with attitude and issues, and their hands are tied with tackling it. Zero respect.

Most parents don't want to know.

So there is no backup and support from her employer or the parents of the problem kids ...

Tough situation, a teacher giving their all but no help to dispose of or resolve the problems being put in her way... not good enough.

dhaughton99

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

It's probably going to get worse.

My wife teachers in a primary school in D15 and says morale is at an all time low. So many kids with attitude and issues, and their hands are tied with tackling it. Zero respect.

Most parents don't want to know.

I work in a DEIS school and the first years who started as just completely uncontrollable. Never really had major issues until this year. 3 SNAs are now assigned to first years.

Strumms

dhaughton99 wrote: »

I work in a DEIS school and the first years who started as just completely uncontrollable. Never really had major issues until this year. 3 SNAs are now assigned to first years.

Not behaving one’s self is a ‘special need’ now ? 3 sna’s cost the state about 85-90 grand...

eviltwin

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

It's probably going to get worse.

My wife teachers in a primary school in D15 and says morale is at an all time low. So many kids with attitude and issues, and their hands are tied with tackling it. Zero respect.

Most parents don't want to know.

On the flip side of that I often work with families who have teenagers heading down a wrong path and crying out for any kind of support to pull them back. The help is non existent. Not all parents don’t care but for those who want help it’s often impossible to find.

whisky_galore

Terrontress wrote: »

It is mostly forgotten because society places so little value on her life. A Mongolian woman in her late 40s, working hard to keep her family afloat. Her family will mourn her as any family mourns their loved one, but society won't react in the same numbers if it were an Irish born woman in her 40s working in the civil service.

If it was an affluent blonde white woman, like the crime series trope, there would be national mourning.
They might even get an award winning podcast out of it.

Ted_YNWA

Mod

Does it really have to be said that vigilantism is not the solution to any teenagers that are breaking, or perceived to have broken any laws.

Posts deleted & any further insinuations of using mob rule or violence to keep these 'yobs' / youths under control or words to that effect will result in sanctions.

mohawk

eviltwin wrote: »

On the flip side of that I often work with families who have teenagers heading down a wrong path and crying out for any kind of support to pull them back. The help is non existent. Not all parents don’t care but for those who want help it’s often impossible to find.

I would well believe this to be honest it is typical of this country. Short- sighted thinking as per usual. If they gave those families the support now it would save the state money in the long run.

Strumms

scout353 wrote: »

Bullying is much less common in schools now compared to years ago when it was the only opportunity for the bully to have easy prey. This is due to social media where kids can be bullied 24/7.

I would say that nearly 80% of bullying is happening online or outside of schools - kids have a lot more freedom, parents are not parenting. Even if they are at home in their bedrooms, their online activity is not being checked nor do the parents know of all the platforms that are available. Remember that FM website a few years ago that resulted in suicides and then there was another one (name escapes me) that called your group a herd and only worked within a local radius!

This is a serious issue ok but blaming schools is, once again, transferring the responsibility away from the home/parent.

I think a lot of parents in ‘21 see themselves and market themselves as Teflon when it comes to taking responsibility for the bad stuff their kids do...

Personally if under 17 and aware that there would be a one percent chance that they might be bullying or exhibiting behaviors that would be making life difficult for another kid, I’m going to be reading their phone / social media, you as a parent should have the ability to sense if there is a malevolent streak in you kid, might not be the purest of badness, but the impact and consequences of that behavior can be seriously devastating for others...

They had a “criminologist” on the Tonight show last night who said one of the main reasons we're seeing this behaviour is “teens trying to outdo each other on social media” - had to laugh, utter bollocks, a hilariously out of touch and middle aged thing to say

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Batrachotox wrote: »

They had a “criminologist” on the Tonight show last night who said one of the main reasons we're seeing this behaviour is “teens trying to outdo each other on social media” - had to laugh, utter bollocks, a hilariously out of touch and middle aged thing to say

..... said some random guy on the ineternet who obviosuly knows more.

So tell us, what do you think are the causes and why are you right and why is he wrong?

BattleCorp

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

..... said some random guy on the ineternet who obviosuly knows more.

So tell us, what do you think are the causes and why are you right and why is he wrong?

There are many causes, not just one and I think it starts long before the kids become teens. They learn bad behaviours and that there are very little consequences to those bad behaviours.

Many modern parents don't parent. They try be their kid's friend rather than their parent. Kids don't need their parents to be their friends, they need parents to teach them about rules, respect etc. That isn't happening in many cases any more.

Add in that kids are no longer afraid of anything as they know they won't get a smack if they act the b0llix.

Quite recently I've seen a child hit her parent and when the granny chastised the child, the parent stuck up for the child and reared up on the granny. That sh1t ain't right.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

..... said some random guy on the ineternet who obviosuly knows more.

So tell us, what do you think are the causes and why are you right and why is he wrong?

Happy to oblige.

The causes are more likely due to a total and visible lack of consequences to this behaviour. Complete dereliction of parental influence in the form of positive role models showing how and how not to behave within your community and towards others. Insufficient policing and a permissive judiciary that are happy to allow the same offenders rack up a laundry list of crimes and continue let them off time and again.

The criminologist is wrong in their assertion because in none of the most prominent videos of this antisocial behaviour were the perpetrators filming it and posting it themselves - the videos are posted by random bystanders.

You're suggesting the lads at Howth junction did what they did because they actively thought to themselves “Hey let’s go and intimidate people at the dart station and maybe some randomer or the cctv will record us being arseholes and then post it on social media and then maybe it’ll go viral and then all the lads will see who the real top dogs are”?? Seriously? That’s a “video games cause violence” level of insight.

The lads at Howth junction likely did what they did because they feel bad about their crappy lives and enjoy the feeling of power they get off frightening others. They did it because nobody’s ever stopped them or said “no” to them, or properly illustrated that there are consequences to such behaviour.

No go on and tell me why I’m wrong and they’re actually all just doing it for TikTok, smart arse

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

BattleCorp wrote: »

There are many causes, not just one and I think it starts long before the kids become teens. They learn bad behaviours and that there are very little consequences to those bad behaviours.

Many modern parents don't parent. They try be their kid's friend rather than their parent. Kids don't need their parents to be their friends, they need parents to teach them about rules, respect etc. That isn't happening in many cases any more.

Add in that kids are no longer afraid of anything as they know they won't get a smack if they act the b0llix.

Quite recently I've seen a child hit her parent and when the granny chastised the child, the parent stuck up for the child and reared up on the granny. That sh1t ain't right.

Disagree with you here - firstly, this "parent trying to be the friend" is an assumed cop-out and the idea that kids ONLY learn through fear and beatings has been proven to be flase over the last few decades.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Batrachotox wrote: »

Happy to oblige.

The causes are more likely due to a total and visible lack of consequences to this behaviour. Complete dereliction of parental influence in the form of positive role models showing how and how not to behave within your community and towards others. Insufficient policing and a permissive judiciary that are happy to allow the same offenders rack up a laundry list of crimes and continue let them off time and again.

The criminologist is wrong in their assertion because in none of the most prominent videos of this antisocial behaviour were the perpetrators filming it and posting it themselves - the videos are posted by random bystanders.

You're suggesting the lads at Howth junction did what they did because they actively thought to themselves “Hey let’s go and intimidate people at the dart station and maybe some randomer or the cctv will record us being arseholes and then post it on social media and then maybe it’ll go viral and then all the lads will see who the real top dogs are”?? Seriously? That’s a “video games cause violence” level of insight.

The lads at Howth junction likely did what they did because they feel bad about their crappy lives and enjoy the feeling of power they get off frightening others. They did it because nobody’s ever stopped them or said “no” to them, or properly illustrated that there are consequences to such behaviour.

No go on and tell me why I’m wrong and they’re actually all just doing it for TikTok, smart arse

Hey - I never said you were wrong! I said you were a randomer who - at the time of my post - put forward no actual practical info or counterpoint. You never even named the "criminologist" or honestly repesented the point you were disagreeing with.

Nor do I know what happened at Howth Junction (wasn't there at the time, haven't seen the show.

I'd imagine you're both right - with criminal behaviour, there's always ego to some extent, although I'd imagine with teenagers it's just a case of showing it to your mates rather than posting it online. Question is, how do you stop it before it starts, not after.

Theer seems to be this "under-the-carpet" menatlity of 'let's throw the parents in jail and beat the **** out of the offenders; and the probalem witll go awya on it's own' - which is one of the most ignorant concpets expressed on this website.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

Hey - I never said you were wrong! I said you were a randomer who - at the time of my post - put forward no actual practical info or counterpoint. You never even named the "criminologist" or honestly repesented the point you were disagreeing with.

Nor do I know what happened at Howth Junction (wasn't there at the time, haven't seen the show.

I'd imagine you're both right - with criminal behaviour, there's always ego to some extent, although I'd imagine with teenagers it's just a case of showing it to your mates rather than posting it online. Question is, how do you stop it before it starts, not after.

Fair enough, Trina O’Connor was the name of the criminologist

All I’ll say on her contention is that it is for the most part baseless (she didn’t reference or provide any specific examples to support her claim), I feel like just saying “social media” is the reason is an easy out for someone to explain away a multifaceted issue that they don’t feel like digging into the nuances of.

If the perpetrators of this antisocial behaviour were posting this stuff themselves to try and outdo rival groups it’d be a reasonable assertion, but they’re not - all the examples we’ve seen are from unrelated bystanders.

There was no depth to her analysis which is why I took issue with her facile explanation. She may as well have said it was because of “that damned rock and roll music”,

eviltwin

There’s no one reason why kids turn out this way and no one solution. In my very humble opinion as a person working with chaotic families there is usually always a trauma, that child or their parent has suffered something that has been left to fester. There is virtually no early intervention when kids start to show problem behaviour,the services that do exist have huge waiting lists. Projects designed to engage with at risk kids have been cut back and of course, there is the stigma. Tell people you are the mum or dad of one of these teens and you will be judged first and helped later if at all.

mrslancaster

dhaughton99 wrote: »

I work in a DEIS school and the first years who started as just completely uncontrollable. Never really had major issues until this year. 3 SNAs are now assigned to first years.

Maybe calling regular primary schools in a socially disadvantaged area a DEIS school is adding to the problem.

The children who attend those schools are already made to feel different, not as good, need more focus, poorer outcomes etc. before they even get to second level. It's a disgrace imo. Why are the state continuing to promote this "other" class of schoolkids?

I'm not saying there should not be additional funding if it's needed but why label the kids from the start. Should be stopped.