Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - **Read OP**

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Ms. Newbie18 wrote: »

Question: why don't we have security on the trains the same way we do on the Luas lines?

People not willing to fund it.

expectationlost

Ms. Newbie18 wrote: »

What I meant was they do not seem to have the same presence as the security on the Luas line do. On the green and red (more so) Luas line the security are a visible presence.

I can't recall seeing security hop on and off the trains ever. I would not be a daily user of either from of transport but would use them enough pre-covid to notice that big difference.

Those security guards were most likely called to that station after the driver made them aware of those degenerates causing trouble.

howth junction is my station 8/10 times I got the train in the evenings (pre-pandemic) there security would be there.

Floppybits

Elmo wrote: »

Perhaps, I would have assumed it was the same as ever. I think there are problems and I think there were problems.


The re-development of Howth Junction has been a disaster for Anti Social Behaviour since it was made over in the late 1990s. I think the old creaking bridge did a lot to stop ASB happening. It looked like a war zone then, now it looks like the berlin wall.

Agree 100%. Lived not too far away from Howth Junction and since the redevelopment things have got worse now that they can hang out in the building where as with the old layout and rickety Bridge it was wide open with nowhere to hang out. Also the station was manned till about 8 in the evening nowadays there is no one there.

On that video the girls where trying to get onto the train away from where the gang of scumbags were being put off the train and the doors wouldn't open, why didn't the driver let them on? Still no excuse for the behaviour of the scumbags but still think the driver should have opened the doors.

clytemnestra

Batrachotox wrote: »

Isn’t that the posters point though?

That they’re such dickheads they’ll go after anyone including teenage girls?

You yourself state that your male friends would have to fear these groups, because the groups would likely go after them. That is still the case.
It just so happens these arseholes will now go after young women too.

So it’s really that they’re just pricks who’ll have a go at anyone, as opposed to actively “hunting” teenage girls as is being suggested.

My point is that they're getting worse, yes. You have to be another level of cowardly and amoral to attack people physically smaller and weaker than you.

clytemnestra

clytemnestra wrote: »

My point is that they're getting worse, yes. You have to be another level of cowardly and amoral to attack people physically smaller and weaker than you.

Agreed, don’t think anyone’s disputing that

juno10353

Security on Luas consists of 2 or 3 in high visibility jackets with radio communication patrolling the line, and able to anticipate build up of problem groups etc. Dart security is lone person at station if lucky

Richard Hillman

Kids aged around 16 and under were the first generation raised by smartphones and tablets. They kicked off and the mother would hand them a tablet or smartphone to shut them up.

We were generally either told to play outside and interact with friends or sat in front of a heavily regulated TV channel.

These kids are absolutely f**ked. They have no imaginations. They need instant gratification. They have no concept of storytelling or emotion. No concept of good guys and bad guys. No role models and if they do, they are usually rubbish ones.

There's a poll going around about what kids want to be when they grow up, I think from either America or the UK. The top of the list was YouTube and influencer but in China the top of the list was an astronaut. People look at lists like that and think isn't that terrible, ah well. But it needs to be taken very very seriously.

Our generation of youth (even the good ones) will grow up to be subjugated by the likes of China and India. All this whilst we spend our entire resources just trying to control what will turn into a very dangerous society.

Ms. Newbie18

expectationlost wrote: »

howth junction is my station 8/10 times I got the train in the evenings (pre-pandemic) there security would be there.

I would rarely use the northside dart line and that would be weekend usage. But going southside as far as greystones, I never see them.

When I think about it, I've seen trian line security in Connolly or Heuston.

JP Liz V1

https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/courtandcrime/arid-40286858.html

More vile scum behaviour

A 15-year-old boy spat in the faces of an ambulance paramedic and a garda who were assisting him and the sentencing judge said it was outrageous that “a pup like him” should have anonymity.

The teenager has been remanded in detention to Oberstown in Dublin until June 3 while Judge Seán Ó Donnabháin considers sentencing at Cork Circuit Criminal Court.....................................

freddiek

I don't think all the lads in the group at Howth Junction are scum.

With groups like these there are usually one or two ringleaders who dictate the action and the quieter ones go along with it through naivete or fear.

Hopefully having seen the video of their behaviour now
All over the Internet they are rightly revolted.

They need to have the guts to cut themselves off from
The rest of this group because if they don't they will end up in a lot of trouble, if they aren't already.

One of them plays with the local GAA club
In Coolock and will hopefully be told by his teammates or mentors that this is conduct unbecoming and he can either change his ways or get lost.

Pink11

Agree that mere presence would make a huge difference to quell some of the tension.

From a practical point of view, what always assumed me is that these gangs run onto the carriages without paying. I commuted for a good 7 years on the luas and one time I was running to get on and my leap card didn't scan properly (I thought it had) and got caught then by the inspector when he beeped it on his machine. Had to pay a fine and it sickens me everytime I think about it!

Hard to stomach when these louts can hop on, terrorize everyone, clearly going into the centre to cause trouble or attend an organized fight. They don't even have to pay a fare!

One time at Drimnagh stop, this very young child I would say no more than 13, came on and starting spitting at passengers. His buddies getting a great laugh but in fairness security got on at the next stop, i think several of us reported it. More security presence WILL stop this kind of behavior.

---

I am haunted by the trip at Howth junction video. I have watched it over and over - studying the reactions of each person in absolute disbelief. Red jacket puffa was actually the only one who showed any signs of remorse or worry (hands on head and seemed to go closer to check - not that he tried to help).

High kick 'footballer' who is being well named and shamed on social was showing off. His talent will be wasted from hanging out with the wrong crowd. His profile picture has a girl with him. A sister, love interest perhaps. Would he be ok with a man high kicking her into the face!? He needs to be taught a very harsh lesson. He is caught face showing on camera there is no denial here.

Red jacket big man was getting a great laugh at spitting and jilting at the girls to scare them,

But it's the two lads using the bike wheels to trip the ladies who scared me the most, they showed no sign of concern when she fell in! And it was his last touch that did the damage. They casually strolled on with their bikes as though nothing happened.

Sympathise with the young lady who fell in, I can't imagine how traumatic it was coming home those first few nights trying to sleep after what had happened. Her friends who were also attacked and witnessed a near death experience. 2/3 of those girls selflessly put their arms down to try and help her out not knowing if that train would take off. Seems the strength of the security member is what was needed to host her up. In a second longer video I saw the reaction of the security guy. As soon as he dragged her to safety he was huddled in a corner - clearly very distressed at what had happened, it really upset me seeing that.

It sincerely scares me that young fellas would attack girls. It's not ok to attack anyone but I have never seen young thugs target young ladies. I am scared for the future in all honesty.

What can be done? More presence. Why can't the guards patrol some of these key spots they hang out at. It's not hard to find out where they gather. Gardai are too busy stopping every car asking them where they are going or hunting people in parks. Stop the real crime please, these up and coming thugs who are going to greater lengths on a daily basis to outdo each other.

Reprecussions for those on welfare. The guardians of these 'children' need to be held accountable. Dock welfare, threaten social services intervention. If these kids have dire homelives, the state needs to step in and help them.

Covid has really made anti-social behaviour amongst kids even worse in Dublin city.

Question: do you think the howth junction gang are horrified by the outcry or are they so braindead they would find all of this amusing and enjoy the coverage? Their guardians must surely be mortified?

NaFirinne

We live in a country that protects the criminal, while preventing the victims to be able to defend and protect themselves.
We live in a country that has largly turned away from Christian principles and morality.
We live in a country that gives our homes away to large funds so our taxes can go to paying rent for all these people on social welfare.
When people are brought up in the mindset of taking wihout giving, they want more and feel it's there right to step on the sheepish people of ireland, who just want to live in peace but have forgotten that when we give in to evil because it seems to be less hassell, it only leads to futher trouble down the road.

There is a way out but no one will listen, just roll there eyes and laugh at the idot preeching - turn to the ways of Christ Jesus.

cbreeze

Pink11 wrote: »

Agree that mere presence would make a huge difference to quell some of the tension.

From a practical point of view, what always assumed me is that these gangs run onto the carriages without paying. I commuted for a good 7 years on the luas and one time I was running to get on and my leap card didn't scan properly (I thought it had) and got caught then by the inspector when he beeped it on his machine. Had to pay a fine and it sickens me everytime I think about it!

Hard to stomach when these louts can hop on, terrorize everyone, clearly going into the centre to cause trouble or attend an organized fight. They don't even have to pay a fare!

One time at Drimnagh stop, this very young child I would say no more than 13, came on and starting spitting at passengers. His buddies getting a great laugh but in fairness security got on at the next stop, i think several of us reported it. More security presence WILL stop this kind of behavior.

---

I am haunted by the trip at Howth junction video. I have watched it over and over - studying the reactions of each person in absolute disbelief. Red jacket puffa was actually the only one who showed any signs of remorse or worry (hands on head and seemed to go closer to check - not that he tried to help).

High kick 'footballer' who is being well named and shamed on social was showing off. His talent will be wasted from hanging out with the wrong crowd. His profile picture has a girl with him. A sister, love interest perhaps. Would he be ok with a man high kicking her into the face!? He needs to be taught a very harsh lesson. He is caught face showing on camera there is no denial here.

Red jacket big man was getting a great laugh at spitting and jilting at the girls to scare them,

But it's the two lads using the bike wheels to trip the ladies who scared me the most, they showed no sign of concern when she fell in! And it was his last touch that did the damage. They casually strolled on with their bikes as though nothing happened.

Sympathise with the young lady who fell in, I can't imagine how traumatic it was coming home those first few nights trying to sleep after what had happened. Her friends who were also attacked and witnessed a near death experience. 2/3 of those girls selflessly put their arms down to try and help her out not knowing if that train would take off. Seems the strength of the security member is what was needed to host her up. In a second longer video I saw the reaction of the security guy. As soon as he dragged her to safety he was huddled in a corner - clearly very distressed at what had happened, it really upset me seeing that.

It sincerely scares me that young fellas would attack girls. It's not ok to attack anyone but I have never seen young thugs target young ladies. I am scared for the future in all honesty.

What can be done? More presence. Why can't the guards patrol some of these key spots they hang out at. It's not hard to find out where they gather. Gardai are too busy stopping every car asking them where they are going or hunting people in parks. Stop the real crime please, these up and coming thugs who are going to greater lengths on a daily basis to outdo each other.

Reprecussions for those on welfare. The guardians of these 'children' need to be held accountable. Dock welfare, threaten social services intervention. If these kids have dire homelives, the state needs to step in and help them.

Covid has really made anti-social behaviour amongst kids even worse in Dublin city.

Question: do you think the howth junction gang are horrified by the outcry or are they so braindead they would find all of this amusing and enjoy the coverage? Their guardians must surely be mortified?

Seems to be a common behaviour on the Luas. A few weeks after an operation I was on crutches in a Luas trying to get off at the Jervis stop. I was in the way of a group of young boys pushing on at the same time. One of them called me a f**cking old sp*stic c--t. Amazing that two of of the four words had two syllables. There is hope for them all yet.

FGR

The criminal justice system needs serious reform.

Imo what could help keep people safe:

- more prisons. I get that many here don't think long prison sentences work but my response is this - the whole purpose of prison is to deprive the offender of their liberty. The side effect of imposing and carrying out longer sentences not only protects the public but also provides greater time to determine which option of rehabilitation is best suited to the prisoner. This will also help bring to an end the existence of so many young people with 300+ convictions who are somehow still free.

- more juvenile detention centres - run them like a regular prison however has to provide greater authority to staff to enforce the rules. We can't have another oberstown where it appears the lunatics run the asylum.

- more guards. We're increasing garda numbers but every guard I've spoken to has mentioned the huge increases in paperwork in the last ten years. Not to mention ridiculous scenarios where guards still have to physically write down everything said in a video recorded interview which can turn a ten minute overview into an hour long project. These processes need to be cut down and streamlined to let the police do their job.

- courts system badly needs review. procedures are slow cumbersome and irrelevant in many cases. Admin again is over the top and the courts themselves are too few. Some large towns only have criminal court sitting one day a week. We need more courts sitting more often to deal with the large numbers of people going through the system.

- as regards laws the max penalties for current public order crimes are reasonable. No need to really change them. Just impose them! Changes to law should be implemented to allow Gary Doyle orders be restricted to what they were originally intended and not for every minor offence that appears.

- legal aid should not incentivise solicitors to adjourn a matter just so they can get another payday. If anything it should encourage a resolution on first appearance.

There's also the element of society that literally cannot look after themselves and actually benefit from being in a prison environment where they're fed and kept warm. Every country has this element that's been forgotten about and whether it's poor upbringing, substance abuse etc a better option should be available to keep both them and the public at large safe.

The system can be streamlined but it would take a strong government. I don't think any of this will happen however and the criminal justice system here will continue to paper over the cracks for everything bar murder.

Is there somewhere to go through the data of those who have gone through oberstown? Would the majority turn out to be scummy adults or did detention work? If there’s proof that detention does work for the majority of cases then I don’t see why they wouldn’t imprison more juveniles and set them on a better path.

It still angers me that “punishment” the kid on the scrambler who left the guy with brain damage received was some juvenile program that cared about his feelings more than the victim and his wife. I wonder what that kid is doing now? Is he still being a scumbag?

gmisk

Legal aid Troubled upbringing, slap on the wrist incoming...

Three teens arrested over Howth Junction Dart station assault https://jrnl.ie/5436123

Signore Fancy Pants

gmisk wrote: »

Legal aid Troubled upbringing, slap on the wrist incoming...

Three teens arrested over Howth Junction Dart station assault https://jrnl.ie/5436123

Great news, little ****.

mohawk

FGR wrote: »

The criminal justice system needs serious reform.

Imo what could help keep people safe:

- more prisons. I get that many here don't think long prison sentences work but my response is this - the whole purpose of prison is to deprive the offender of their liberty. The side effect of imposing and carrying out longer sentences not only protects the public but also provides greater time to determine which option of rehabilitation is best suited to the prisoner. This will also help bring to an end the existence of so many young people with 300+ convictions who are somehow still free.

- more juvenile detention centres - run them like a regular prison however has to provide greater authority to staff to enforce the rules. We can't have another oberstown where it appears the lunatics run the asylum.

I can see where you coming from. However, the USA has a massive incarnation rate. It doesn’t prevent crime at all. Now obviously there are some criminals that have to be in jail for public safety and so Jails are an absolute necessity. For the guys with over 100 convictions does this start when they are children/teenagers? Can something be done here.
If a teenager damages property maybe they should pay for the damage to be repaired. If they graffiti maybe they should be the ones to clean it. Direct consequences to actions.

It would be interesting to see outcomes from kids in Juvenile detention centres. Is there any rehabilitation happening at all.

starkid

mohawk wrote: »

I can see where you coming from. However, the USA has a massive incarnation rate. It doesn’t prevent crime at all. Now obviously there are some criminals that have to be in jail for public safety and so Jails are an absolute necessity. For the guys with over 100 convictions does this start when they are children/teenagers? Can something be done here.
If a teenager damages property maybe they should pay for the damage to be repaired. If they graffiti maybe they should be the ones to clean it. Direct consequences to actions.

It would be interesting to see outcomes from kids in Juvenile detention centres. Is there any rehabilitation happening at all.

There's lots can be done. Look at Norway for example if people are feeling too precious over jails. Tagging, really stringent social work meetings, more armed police or access to weapons with strict protocols, fines, community work, limits on free legal aid.

The problem in Ireland is we have nearly **** all deterrents and people in ivory towers involved some clearly on a gravy train. Including politicians from both sides of the political spectrum.

We're probably one or two major incidents away from it becoming a major issue. If that poor Mongolian woman had been a google exec from abroad etc, then it would have been redballed all day. It would go worldwide. Already from speaking to colleagues in my international team alot are sick of this ****e and amazed at the lack of police.

God forbid if this poor girl had died. **** would have hit the fan.

Ireland's relatively safe, but there comes a point in time when that statement is no longer true. I'd reckon we're heading into it for all the reasons stated in this thread and more. We lagged so far behind in lots of things. We've nearly caught up on it all, good and bad. Lack of parenting, state sponsored entitlement, lack of judiciary penalties, poor urban planning and legacies of old Dublin, rural towns dying, 2.2 million workforce propping things up, lack of a visible proactive under resourced police force, weak politicians either too afraid of isolating their core support (I live in Ballybough,near Mary Lou's office, there was no condemnation of the murder of the mongolian woman, just thoughts and prayers) or wokists like McEntee thinking a 25 year old is still a child. We have one of the highest gun murder rates in Europe. We harboured one of the biggest drug gangs in the World, in Ireland. We have legacy issues from one of the worlds largest terrorist organisations. All realties. We can talk about the animal gangs all we want. This is 2021. People should be able to leave their places of work and not be stabbed by 15 year old kids. People shouldn't be pushed under trains.**** those scum that do it and **** the people who defend it.

so many issues here. Can we at least have something out of those things before we go to the jail doesn't work argument. Its skipped so many steps that are argued against as part of the same uber liberal position. You can't tag people..civil liberities. You can't make them pick up litter...and on and on.

Infini

If COVID has done anything it's exposed the rotten underbelly of drug addiction and feral scrotes that in the past have been buried in the background. Thankfully the woman in question would not have been in danger at the time as even though she fell under the train, the train cannot move while the doors are open, people saw her fall and the driver also looks back as well and on the platform camera. Had this happened though after the doors had closed though it'd been a different story entirely if the driver didnt see her go under.

I hate these little feckers when they act up but we need to get them out of this behaviour early, I'm not necessarily for convicting them but making them do community service or made to clean up the place and making them realise that if they dont stop doing what they're doing there will be serious consequences.

Infini

starkid wrote: »

The problem in Ireland is we have nearly **** all deterrents and people in ivory towers involved some clearly on a gravy train. Including politicians from both sides of the political spectrum.

We're probably one or two major incidents away from it becoming a major issue. If that poor Mongolian woman had been a google exec from abroad etc, then it would have been redballed all day. It would go worldwide. Already from speaking to colleagues in my international team alot are sick of this ****e and amazed at the lack of police.

God forbid if this poor girl had died. **** would have hit the fan.

The problem is in many cases it's not the guards who are the problem its the shítfest of a legal system we got in place and a system with too many holes and get out clauses for clever solicitors. At the very least if we truly wish to sort out the problem we're going to need serious root and branch reform of the legal system to ultimately make it more accountable.

Ms. Newbie18

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

Is there somewhere to go through the data of those who have gone through oberstown? Would the majority turn out to be scummy adults or did detention work? If there’s proof that detention does work for the majority of cases then I don’t see why they wouldn’t imprison more juveniles and set them on a better path.

It still angers me that “punishment” the kid on the scrambler who left the guy with brain damage received was some juvenile program that cared about his feelings more than the victim and his wife. I wonder what that kid is doing now? Is he still being a scumbag?

I knew someone a few years ago who's OH worked in one of these "Children Detention Campus" as they are called. I can't remember if it was Oberstown. Said it was like a holiday camp. private en-suite rooms, with flat screen TVS, games rooms, large grounds they could roam around and play football etc, plus they got taken on regular outings. There seemed to be little reform going on. They compared "war" story's which meant lots of bragging.

https://www.irishtimes.com/news/crime-and-law/it-s-not-a-prison-inside-oberstown-child-detention-campus-1.4036726

These facilities should be run like army barrack. All in the one room shared baths and pulled out at the crack of dawn to run drills and go to school. No games rooms or phones - your in to learn a lesson and change your ways. Why should you be rewarded with access to internet, movies and games rooms??

Infini

Infini wrote: »

If COVID has done anything it's exposed the rotten underbelly of drug addiction and feral scrotes that in the past have been buried in the background. Thankfully the woman in question would not have been in danger at the time as even though she fell under the train, the train cannot move while the doors are open, people saw her fall and the driver also looks back as well and on the platform camera. Had this happened though after the doors had closed though it'd been a different story entirely if the driver didnt see her go under.

I hate these little feckers when they act up but we need to get them out of this behaviour early, I'm not necessarily for convicting them but making them do community service or made to clean up the place and making them realise that if they dont stop doing what they're doing there will be serious consequences.

Regular commuter here. I've seen people at Pearse and Connolly peak times run up the steps towards the nearest door of train as its beginning to roll and then stopping abruptly upon realisation that they missed it at the yellow line.

Same could have easily happened here that's why I believe a serious charge is needed.

Telly

At least they got 3 of them


https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0513/1221386-three-teenagers-arrested-over-dart-station-attack/

0ph0rce0

Telly wrote: »

At least they got 3 of them


https://www.rte.ie/news/2021/0513/1221386-three-teenagers-arrested-over-dart-station-attack/

Nothing will happen sure, what's the point, they get out of the garda station and will be walking around like they're the big dicks, and all the young scum look up to them thinking they're deadly.

Every time some little knacker does something like this they need a slap, they do it again and they get a good hiding again, it's the only thing that will make them think twice.

Telly

0ph0rce0 wrote: »

Nothing will happen sure, what's the point, they get out of the garda station and will be walking around like they're the big dicks, and all the young scum look up to them thinking they're deadly.

Every time some little knacker does something like this they need a slap, they do it again and they get a good hiding again, it's the only thing that will make them think twice.

I wonder will they make an example of them tho cause it’s been happening the last year.

0ph0rce0

Telly wrote: »

I wonder will they make an example of them tho cause it’s been happening the last year.

Not a chance.

biddyearley

First, children's allowance should be paid for the first 3 children. Anymore and it's a case of you dip your wick, you pay for the oil.
As another poster said, reduce the criminal liability age to 7, and hold the parents to account financially and by garnishing their wages or welfare.
Build proper playgrounds and pitches with all housing estates.
Community policing with a local pair of guards interacting with youngsters.
Proper civics classes in schools, where kids are taught about the rule of law, the consitiution and social responsibility.
As a last resort, caning.

Hellrazer

Is this the end wrote: »

Its nothing but a bunch of little scumbag scrotes who need to intimidate/abuse/asault people they know wont stand up to them.

This is exactly it - they wouldnt do the same to a bunch of teenage lads because they`d probably get the **** kicked out of them.
They are basically bullies and will probably be bullies for the rest of their lives.

Batrachotox wrote: »

Isn’t that the posters point though?

That they’re such dickheads they’ll go after anyone including teenage girls?

You yourself state that your male friends would have to fear these groups, because the groups would likely go after them. That is still the case.
It just so happens these arseholes will now go after young women too.

So it’s really that they’re just pricks who’ll have a go at anyone, as opposed to actively “hunting” teenage girls as is being suggested.

Actually reminds me of another one with my teenage girls - my 14 year old recently had surgery on her back to correct a curve but before she had the surgery there was a group of young 14-16 year old lads picking on her over her back..horrible , horrible stuff altogether.

So one Saturday night she comes down crying and I was trying to get to the bottom of it. These lads were calling her through snap chat but when she blocked one of them they used another ones phones and so on. Next time a call comes in I take the phone and me being the nice person I am (Im not really when it comes to defending my kids) I asked them nicely to ease off on picking on her.

One of them - btw a 14 year old that a strong wind would blow over decided to threaten me and said he was calling over to the house with his mates to " have a knock with me" whatever that is.

So I says to him - off you come and we`ll have a "chat"

So he never shows up and on the Sunday night I returned his call with an old pre paid sim that I use if I dont want someone to have my main number or for donedeal etc and told him since he didnt show up Id be outside the school on Monday at 3.30 for our "chat"....Poor ****er didnt show up for school for the next 2 weeks - some hard man he turned out to be - apparently he was terrified to go to school in case I did actually turn up but he was being the hard man in front of his little gang of friends.

mohawk

starkid wrote: »

There's lots can be done. Look at Norway for example if people are feeling too precious over jails. Tagging, really stringent social work meetings, more armed police or access to weapons with strict protocols, fines, community work, limits on free legal aid.

Can we at least have something out of those things before we go to the jail doesn't work argument. Its skipped so many steps that are argued against as part of the same uber liberal position. You can't tag people..civil liberities. You can't make them pick up litter...and on and on.

It’s refreshing to read a post where someone has given examples of actions we can take. These aren’t even extreme things. Unfortunately, I think our politicians will wait for something really bad to happen before they act and then they will just paper over the cracks without making real change.

Don’t get me wrong I am not anti-jail. I just think it would be great to turn some of the kids around so jail isn’t needed and the Norway model sounds like something worth pursuing. Jail is of course needed for those who continue on the wrong path or are a danger to society.