Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - **Read OP**

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...cause we all love being made to do things, dont we!

But that’s the criminals choice though. If they want to keep full control of their lives then choose a different lifestyle.

I’m not gonna claim to have any answers really. The only association with crime that I have is being a victim of it. And that’s the problem. Victims are forgotten in order to give criminals the “there there” treatment. That’s got to change.

starkid

https://twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1392738570557923331

this is the reality lads.

You could accept it (its a world wide phenomenon) if they actually had proper patrols and they didn't victim blame.

Its only going to get worse. We have the lowest number of police in Europe per head, and possibly the greatest concentration of n'er do wells in a city centre.

Jequ0n

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

You’ve still got 80 crimes prevented!

Make it mandatory to learn a trade whilst inside. Perhaps a couple of years of National Service whilst on probation. It could be just the steer in the right direction that they’ve been looking for. No doubt there will be a percentage who will reoffend but that’s their choice and if caught, lock them up again for a longer time. Obviously they prefer being in prison.

Oh I see, you are a visionary.
None of this is realistic, nor would it solve the root problem, aka what causes these people in the first place

Jequ0n

Jequ0n wrote: »

Oh I see, you are a visionary.
None of this is realistic, nor would it solve the root problem, aka what causes these people in the first place

And what, in your opinion, is the root problem?

Jequ0n

Strawberry Milkshake wrote: »

And what, in your opinion, is the root problem?

That has been discussed a lot on the thread, you can scroll back.

I’d get theadbanned for putting down my own preferences on how to deal with this, and they are as unrealistic as yours.

Edit: I realise I phrased this badly, I didn’t mean to be rude

Castlekeeper

Wanderer78 wrote: »

...cause we all love being made to do things, dont we!

Yes, young people flourish in a disciplined, fair, and rewarding environment. Of course there are different approaches to making people do things, but it would appear to be more the lack of doing things for themselves and others is a large contributory factor to this problem.
The devil makes work for idle hands and all that.. speaking of which, tea break's over here, back to the rewarding hard labour for me.

K.Flyer

Jequ0n wrote: »

And what happens when the person is released after spending a decade with others of their kind?

While in prison it will give them time to think and consider their life options.
Do they leave prison and carry on as before and risk having their freedom removed again, maybe for a longer period next time, or do they realise that their attitude that got them locked up in the first place is not worth it and they want to do something better with their lives and contribute to society in a meaningful way?

It's two choices.

For those who go out to reoffend and act the cnut, give them longer prison time each time they are locked up.

For those who show that they don't want to go back to that way of life, give them the help, training and skills to do something positive with their life.

And I always felt it was wrong that someone who made a mistake and got jail time, but turned their life around and let a decent life afterwards should still carry that black mark against them.
There should be some form of incentive that if someone proves that they are staying out of trouble etc can have that black mark removed so as not to affect their future good prospects.
But should they reoffend, then back to square one.

Tldr:
Keep locking them up for longer terms until they cop onto themselves.
Give all the help and encouragement to those who do want to become better people and better role models to those around them.

So instead of just saying prison doesn't work, what are your suggestions????

stoneill

I hold the view that nobody is born evil, it is a learnt behaviour, and in some cases actively encouraged and awarded by peers and the environment they live in.

I also hold the view that human life is precious and sacred and must be protected at all times.

Then, once in a while I think that there are some who are absolutely no benefit to society or the human race in general, they cannot be or refuse to be rehabilitated and that they are a complete and utter waste of time, effort and money. In some sense they are a waste of life.

Unfortunately there seems to be more and more of these people.

wes

stoneill wrote: »

I hold the view that nobody is born evil, it is a learnt behaviour, and in some cases actively encouraged and awarded by peers and the environment they live in.

I also hold the view that human life is precious and sacred and must be protected at all times.

Then, once in a while I think that there are some who are absolutely no benefit to society or the human race in general, they cannot be or refuse to be rehabilitated and that they are a complete and utter waste of time, effort and money. In some sense they are a waste of life.

Unfortunately there seems to be more and more of these people.

I still think these people are far fewer thankfully, but the mess they cause despite the low numbers, is something the rest of us need to deal with.

Jequ0n

K.Flyer wrote: »

While in prison it will give them time to think and consider their life options.

So instead of just saying prison doesn't work, what are your suggestions????

I didn’t say that. I said simply locking them up and expecting this to change the person will not work

OMM 0000

Wanderer78 wrote: »

... So increasing 'punishment', resolves these kind of issues?

Life sentence after three criminal convictions.

It takes the scum out of society permanently.

Wanderer78

OMM 0000 wrote:

Life sentence after three criminal convictions.

.... since incarceration is cheap, and under normal economic circumstances, citizens would more than likely be paying for this via taxation, which would probably mean higher taxes, you okay with this?

malinheader

starkid wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1392738570557923331

this is the reality lads.

You could accept it (its a world wide phenomenon) if they actually had proper patrols and they didn't victim blame.

Its only going to get worse. We have the lowest number of police in Europe per head, and possibly the greatest concentration of n'er do wells in a city centre.

The video should say. " citizens of Ireland lock up your bicycles or lose them as we have not got the manpower or really any authority to stop this. We could try arresting them but they would likely be back on the streets after a couple of hours and even if sent in front of a judge legal aid will get them off with a slap on the wrist seeing as it's only there 35th offence.


Ps. Don't try and take matters into your own hands or try and stop them else you will be probably prosecuted for assaulting them.

walshb

stoneill wrote: »

I hold the view that nobody is born evil, it is a learnt behaviour, and in some cases actively encouraged and awarded by peers and the environment they live in.

I also hold the view that human life is precious and sacred and must be protected at all times.

Then, once in a while I think that there are some who are absolutely no benefit to society or the human race in general, they cannot be or refuse to be rehabilitated and that they are a complete and utter waste of time, effort and money. In some sense they are a waste of life.

Unfortunately there seems to be more and more of these people.

Some people simply have a nastiness and badness in them.

And no matter what searching is done, no matter what upbringing or environment etc, these people will always exist..

To deal with them? Remove them from other people that they can hurt..

mohawk

PespiChallenge wrote: »

I have a neighbor who works in one of the services that is there to help these teens. He told me this week one of the 19 year lads he works with who has been dating an 18 year girl for about four months found out she was 8 weeks pregnant and to celebrate they as in he and the girlfriend decided to buy a load of cans of cider and do lines of coke all night.

Children having children who were children of children themselves there is a huge part of the problem.

I knew a teenager who was big into coke when they got pregnant and child has heart defect, kidney and bowel issues. The poor kid they are bringing into the world.

I worked with a guy who was heartbroken when his teenage sister got pregnant (as were the parents). They were not ashamed of the girl. It was a fear of the future and how would she cope and go on to achieve a job that would support her and the baby. The family really pulled together to allow the girl to on to college so she could have a career. They were not a wealthy family just a regular working class family. That girl has a now good job and her child is doing great.

Another woman I know was delighted when her teenage daughter got pregnant. Not one consideration was given to the future or how was the girl going to provide for this baby. But it’s the only life they know so it’s probably unfair to judge.

OMM 0000

Wanderer78 wrote: »

.... since incarceration is cheap, and under normal economic circumstances, citizens would more than likely be paying for this via taxation, which would probably mean higher taxes, you okay with this?

Living in a society with far less scum everywhere... yes I'm willing to pay slightly more tax for that.

I notice you left out all the money we will save by taking the scum out of society.

tayto lover

Wanderer78 wrote: »

.... since incarceration is cheap, and under normal economic circumstances, citizens would more than likely be paying for this via taxation, which would probably mean higher taxes, you okay with this?

€69,500 to keep someone in prison for a year I’m reliably told.

thegetawaycar

Wanderer78 wrote: »

.... since incarceration is cheap, and under normal economic circumstances, citizens would more than likely be paying for this via taxation, which would probably mean higher taxes, you okay with this?

This is always brought up, the cost of police time in dealing with the same people all the time, the free legal aid, welfare costs, extra security costs for shops/citizens, possible HAP payments/social house and not to mention the cost to society as a whole aren't taken into account. Won't be having kids while locked up meaning not passing on scumbag traits to the next generation.

Locked up for life and you should be receiving 0 payments from the state. I'd rather pay for a scrote with 100+ convictions to be in prison than to be paying towards his welfare indirectly.

thegetawaycar

tayto lover wrote: »

€69,500 to keep someone in prison for a year I’m reliably told.

Please back that up with a breakdown if possible. This crap comes from NGOs and mostly is fixed costs so if you have 0 in prison the cost is similar to having loads but per prisoner costs a fortune.

Nobody ever points out that if we locked up a **** load more the cost per prisoner goes down, vested interests with an agenda.

walshb

Wanderer78 wrote: »

.... since incarceration is cheap, and under normal economic circumstances, citizens would more than likely be paying for this via taxation, which would probably mean higher taxes, you okay with this?

100 percent alright with tax money or whatever money being used to properly put away scum that hurt people...

The cost issue is an absolute red herring

Money goes around in any economy.....it's life

Personally, if I was a billionaire, for example and was thinking of donating, one area would be into the justice system, whether that be to build more prisons to house scum or whatever...

FGR

Wanderer78 wrote: »

.... since incarceration is cheap, and under normal economic circumstances, citizens would more than likely be paying for this via taxation, which would probably mean higher taxes, you okay with this?

With all due respect Wanderer you're very good at posing questions but not providing any alternative solutions- are you happy with the current system?

Would you be happy with the current approach if one of the victims in these scenarios discussed was dear to you?

I'm all for criticism but without making alternative suggestions those critics are simply hurling from the ditch.

If increasing rates of incarceration results in increased costs to the exchequer than I'm all for it - especially if keeping one of these people behind bars as a genuine punishment and opportunity for reform saves even one person from being a victim of such crimes.

Wanderer78

FGR wrote: »

With all due respect Wanderer you're very good at posing questions but not providing any alternative solutions- are you happy with the current system?

Would you be happy with the current approach if one of the victims in these scenarios discussed was dear to you?

I'm all for criticism but without making alternative suggestions those critics are simply hurling from the ditch.

If increasing rates of incarceration results in increased costs to the exchequer than I'm all for it - especially if keeping one of these people behind bars as a genuine punishment and opportunity for reform saves even one person from being a victim of such crimes.

no, the current system is beyond sh1t! theres decades, probably centuries of research on the root causes of crime, from poverty, wealth inequality, then of course the really complicated stuff, complex psychological disorders and issues. lets maybe start addressing these first, before we all start blowing our loads over resolving this one!

with current re-offense rates very high, you can be damn sure, locking them up for longer, wont work, but will cost the rest of us a fortune, for little or no return. we d just end up increasing prison populations, therefore increasing the need for more prisons, which in turn will cost us more and more and more, i.e. it becomes a positive feedback loop

oh and ive been a victim of crime, probably many times in my life, and yes, its sh!t, oh and i regularly chat to lads that have done time, and continue to engage in crime

ThunbergsAreGo

starkid wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1392738570557923331

this is the reality lads.

You could accept it (its a world wide phenomenon) if they actually had proper patrols and they didn't victim blame.

Its only going to get worse. We have the lowest number of police in Europe per head, and possibly the greatest concentration of n'er do wells in a city centre.

It is actually pure victim blaming, can you imagine the uproar if they did this for other crimes....

ThunbergsAreGo

tayto lover wrote: »

€69,500 to keep someone in prison for a year I’m reliably told.

Stop their benefits and entitlements and you are probably half way there.

tom1ie

whomitconcerns wrote: »

What can be done to try change these attitudes before they get too much more prevalent..These guys know that they cant be touched and even if they are will be out soon anyway!


Mod - This topic can be discussed in general terms but do not discuss an ongoing court case

Threaten the loss of social welfare payments to their parents.
The parents are supposed to be guiding them- that’s their job.
If they can’t do that their needs to be repercussions.

Potential-Monke

starkid wrote: »

https://twitter.com/gardainfo/status/1392738570557923331

this is the reality lads.

You could accept it (its a world wide phenomenon) if they actually had proper patrols and they didn't victim blame.

Its only going to get worse. We have the lowest number of police in Europe per head, and possibly the greatest concentration of n'er do wells in a city centre.

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

It is actually pure victim blaming, can you imagine the uproar if they did this for other crimes....

How is it? People spend upwards of thousands on a bike and then buy a bike lock from the Euro store. They don't keep a record of their serial number. Prevention is better than the cure, but people still think everything is someone elses fault. Look at the lad that took that bike. Do you think you would recognise him? Would you give a statement and go to court identifying him? Most people won't, so the Gardai have literally nothing to go on, not even an injured party because most people can't prove that a bike is theirs.

It's the exact same as the Gardai telling people, for decades now, not to leave valuables visible in a locked car. It's why there's a law making it illegal to leave your car unattended while it's idling. The amount of people I had to inform that most likely they won't get their bike back, even if it's found, because they can't prove ownership.

Maybe it's a good point to bring in legal requirements like tax and insurance for bicycles, at least the serial number would be recorded then, and people might take the security of their own property a bit more seriously. Probably not though, easier to blame everyone but yourselves.

whisky_galore

ThunbergsAreGo wrote: »

It is actually pure victim blaming, can you imagine the uproar if they did this for other crimes....

Eh no.
Spend a grand or more on a bike and be all surprised it's not there on your return because you skimped and used a sh1tty lock you could pull apart with your bare hands.

Pink11

Family members of the Howth gang are apparently crying out for people to leave their kids alone. 'They're just kids having fun'.

Posting up 'tributes' to their angels accompanied by a collage of photos of their little scrote. Showing their love and support to 'dare lil angelz'.

If this is the attitude of the parents, these kids have no chance. It's hopeless because they are underage the state don't want to know, the parents don't want to know.

I really hope the anger continues so at least we are being a pain in the backside and keep pressure on. I got a reply from RTE today to say they would 'decide' if my complaint will be considered. Sounds like it'll be left rot in a pile. Damage is done if you ask me, it's too late, the articles have been printed, read by thousands making it look like it was an accident 'girl ran to avoid the boys tripping between the gap.'

Private Joker

whisky_galore wrote: »

Eh no.
Spend a grand or more on a bike and be all surprised it's not there on your return because you skimped and used a sh1tty lock you could pull apart with your bare hands.

A lock will only deter an honest person

Pink11

whisky_galore wrote: »

Eh no.
Spend a grand or more on a bike and be all surprised it's not there on your return because you skimped and used a sh1tty lock you could pull apart with your bare hands.

I have seen scrotes with hacksaws on O' Connell ST, broad daylight cutting locks. A few of us stood around trying to intimate them, cautious because they had a dangerous weapon. They didn't give a crap. Two knacks chatting away as they cut into a few locks. Strolled off slowly chatting away with 2 bikes each, one in each arm. We kept looking around, surely a garda will pass by the main street in Dublin any minute now? Of course not. Parked up down the road stopping every car asking where they're going instead.