Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - **Read OP**

Ash.J.Williams

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's kind of disturbing that this murder barely got any press. The woman killed in South London by the constable got more coverage here, and still has been getting coverage. I think there was even a march or vigil in Dublin for her murder, to highlight women's safety issues etc.
No one seems to give a f*ck about this woman though. What's up with that? Is it just because she's an immigrant in her 40s? Or because it was just some little scumbag in a random attack?
If it was some white woman from South County Dublin murdered by her husband there'd be people on the Late Late show talking about it ffs.

the white woman in London certainly did get press

Lillyfae

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Strange alright. Wasn't been a peep out of the usual "working class" or migrant rights reps on it.

I recollect there being quite alot about it at the time.

I think the shocking thing about the London murder was that it was committed by a serving member of the police force- he used his position to get her into the car.

Thelonious Monk

Lillyfae wrote: »

I recollect there being quite alot about it at the time.

I think the shocking thing about the London murder was that it was committed by a serving member of the police force- he used his position to get her into the car.

I just thought because it was a woman on her own randomly murdered in the city centre it might spark some kind of new policing policies in the area or something in her name. I would imagine most people don't even know it happened. There was another murder nearby too involving teenagers, which is in court at the moment I think.
I should know better though having a relative murdered in similar circumstances, it's quickly forgotten about, and before you know it it happens again.

Be right back

Lillyfae wrote: »

I recollect there being quite alot about it at the time.

I think the shocking thing about the London murder was that it was committed by a serving member of the police force- he used his position to get her into the car.

On the other hand, I don't think there was much coverage here about the policewoman murdered while out walking her dog in the UK.

starkid

Montage of Feck wrote: »

Strange alright. Wasn't been a peep out of the usual "working class" or migrant rights reps on it.

Nothing from any of the public representatives in the area either. Utterly ****ing shameful. wouldn't want to spook their core support.

starkid

Lillyfae wrote: »

I recollect there being quite alot about it at the time.

I think the shocking thing about the London murder was that it was committed by a serving member of the police force- he used his position to get her into the car.

there wasn't anything really. the poster is right. there was a march in DUblin about the london issues. a really skewed scenario.

two migrant women killed in the last few years from Asia, not a peep. its only a matter of time it happens to the wrong person and the country takes a severe beating in perception. The fight on Capel St with an Asian man knocking out a local scumbag went viral cause of the asian racism angle.

Thelonious Monk

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

It's kind of disturbing that this murder barely got any press. The woman killed in South London by the constable got more coverage here, and still has been getting coverage. I think there was even a march or vigil in Dublin for her murder, to highlight women's safety issues etc.
No one seems to give a f*ck about this woman though. What's up with that? Is it just because she's an immigrant in her 40s? Or because it was just some little scumbag in a random attack?
If it was some white woman from South County Dublin murdered by her husband there'd be people on the Late Late show talking about it ffs.

Just a few kids doing what they've always been doing in Dublin.

ineedeuro

The media coverage is driven by RTE who are driven by the government. Hence why you have stories like this quickly moved out of circulation and never reported on again. Can't have the American's thinking the Irish are a group of thugs and it ain't safe to come over here.

slipperyox

If you want to know the reasons for peoples actions, look at the consequences, and infer back to the reason.

Potential-Monke

Can I ask, do ye know for a fact that there are free Gardai around when these incidents are happening? Like, you can give proof that while those lads jumping up and down on the taxi, that there were Gardai just standing idly by doing feck all? Or maybe, just maybe, they were dealing with something else?

People are always, and as usual, quick to blame the Gardai for this, regardless of how many actually get arrested (see, unless it's a major crime, juvenile crime doesn't really get reported on). They blame the Gardai for the courts being lenient, when it has nothing to do with them. They blame the Gardai for the revolving doors of prisons. Just because there wasn't a Garda there and then. They can't win. The people are against them, the government is against them, their own management is against them.

We have other people calling for community sentence type convictions where we force youths, or even adults, to work. For free! In this country?!?! God no, you have to think of the criminals rights, and forcing them to work is inhumane. And reprimanding them for not working is also inhumane. Locking them in a cell all day is inhumane. Not giving them access to electronics and media and activities and access to upskill, that's inhumane. We can't have unhappy prisoners here. No sireee bob.

Yeah, youths causing this crap is not nice, but it's still not that high up on the list of priorities right now, especially while the justice system fails any attempt to curb it.

Potential-Monke

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Can I ask, do ye know for a fact that there are free Gardai around when these incidents are happening? Like, you can give proof that while those lads jumping up and down on the taxi, that there were Gardai just standing idly by doing feck all? Or maybe, just maybe, they were dealing with something else?

People are always, and as usual, quick to blame the Gardai for this, regardless of how many actually get arrested (see, unless it's a major crime, juvenile crime doesn't really get reported on). They blame the Gardai for the courts being lenient, when it has nothing to do with them. They blame the Gardai for the revolving doors of prisons. Just because there wasn't a Garda there and then. They can't win. The people are against them, the government is against them, their own management is against them.

We have other people calling for community sentence type convictions where we force youths, or even adults, to work. For free! In this country?!?! God no, you have to think of the criminals rights, and forcing them to work is inhumane. And reprimanding them for not working is also inhumane. Locking them in a cell all day is inhumane. Not giving them access to electronics and media and activities and access to upskill, that's inhumane. We can't have unhappy prisoners here. No sireee bob.

Yeah, youths causing this crap is not nice, but it's still not that high up on the list of priorities right now, especially while the justice system fails any attempt to curb it.

People really need to take a stroll down to their local district court to see the ",justice system" in action with regard to serial offenders, and their attitude/contempt for anything like a social contract.
Fellas with multiple convictions strolling around, their latest appearance a mere inconvenience in the day.

Wanderer78

MikeOxsgreen wrote:

People really need to take a stroll down to their local district court to see the ",justice system" in action with regard to serial offenders, and their attitude/contempt for anything like a social contract. Fellas with multiple convictions strolling around, their latest appearance a mere inconvenience in the day.

Yup, we have a refusal to adequately deal with complex social and psychological issues, so round and round we go!

slipperyox

Funny thing is,
That scrote with 40 convictions is a hero to the legal system.

He probably accounts for over half a million in revenue for solicitors (both sides state paid) court staff, probation officers, do gooder counsellors, etc

If they were to lock him up, the gravy train would stop.

In fact i'm convinced that if every single person in Ireland stopped committing crime, new laws would be drafted to make breaking one easier:)

starkid

Potential-Monke wrote: »

Can I ask, do ye know for a fact that there are free Gardai around when these incidents are happening? Like, you can give proof that while those lads jumping up and down on the taxi, that there were Gardai just standing idly by doing feck all? Or maybe, just maybe, they were dealing with something else?

People are always, and as usual, quick to blame the Gardai for this, regardless of how many actually get arrested (see, unless it's a major crime, juvenile crime doesn't really get reported on). They blame the Gardai for the courts being lenient, when it has nothing to do with them. They blame the Gardai for the revolving doors of prisons. Just because there wasn't a Garda there and then. They can't win. The people are against them, the government is against them, their own management is against them.

We have other people calling for community sentence type convictions where we force youths, or even adults, to work. For free! In this country?!?! God no, you have to think of the criminals rights, and forcing them to work is inhumane. And reprimanding them for not working is also inhumane. Locking them in a cell all day is inhumane. Not giving them access to electronics and media and activities and access to upskill, that's inhumane. We can't have unhappy prisoners here. No sireee bob.

Yeah, youths causing this crap is not nice, but it's still not that high up on the list of priorities right now, especially while the justice system fails any attempt to curb it.

both positions can be true.

we have judges on record saying we have a lack of visible policing. we do. I spent over 12 hours walking in and around Dublin last weekend over 2 days in the busiest periods. Not a garda to be seen from North Strand, down abbey street to Rathmines. we're fluking it at the moment. Some day in the near future, we'll be crying over our failings now. its nearly a given. As a certain cohort of society gets left behind mentally and culuturally (not financially) they will lash out. And unfortunately for the city we have about 15-20 disadvantaged sites all over the core parts of the city centre from the Phoenix Park to Stephjens Green and to our CBDS. Probably, unlike anywhere else in the World.

The courts are a ****show yes.But we have something like one of the lowest number of police per head in Europe (maybe even the World). How hard would it be to set up units in key city centre sites like you would find all over Europe? instead i saw two hanging back in new commens bridge away from it all. In fairness that is because as you say shure we can't have big bad gardai lookign menacing. its a boring task alright, but needs be. Now is that a government failing or a garda management or organisational culture failing? probably all three.

so i agree with you. IMO the weird pysche around police in this country, its clearly a colonial hangover from the old RIC. Policing by consent because anything other than that would be akin to the RIC and Tans beating on the people of Ireland.

But when we have a woman being murdered in our CBD a few hundred metres from a 24 hour covid traffic stop we have a problem.

slipperyox

Abortion solved the same problem in New York and other places many years ago, however the financial incentive to spawn in Ireland negates this.

https://bfi.uchicago.edu/wp-content/uploads/BFI_WP_201975.pdf

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

Yup, we have a refusal to adequately deal with complex social and psychological issues, so round and round we go!

We're not adequately dealing with criminality. Not all of these miscreants have clinical psychological issues, social yes for many. Social issues in many cases arising from a tolerance of criminality and low level offending.

The states duty of care should be to law abiding citizens in the first instance. The rights of the offender should be well down the hierarchy.

I've seen the courts give chances and rightly so, and it's highly likely the defendant will never be heard of again. But the courts also know many of their regulars very well.

Wanderer78

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

We're not adequately dealing with criminality. Not all of these miscreants have clinical psychological issues, social yes for many. Social issues in many cases arising from a tolerance of criminality and low level offending.

The states duty of care should be to law abiding citizens in the first instance. The rights of the offender should be well down the hierarchy.

I've seen the courts give chances and rightly so, and it's highly likely the defendant will never be heard of again. But the courts also know many of their regulars very well.

this is the horsesh1t approach, theres clearly something wrong with people if they continue to offend, and continually go in and out of prison, we re simply not dealing with these issues, believing they ll some how sort themselves out via program 'personal responsibility' or some other sh1te!

Northernlily

slipperyox wrote: »

Funny thing is,
That scrote with 40 convictions is a hero to the legal system.

He probably accounts for over half a million in revenue for solicitors (both sides state paid) court staff, probation officers, do gooder counsellors, etc

If they were to lock him up, the gravy train would stop.

In fact i'm convinced that if every single person in Ireland stopped committing crime, new laws would be drafted to make breaking one easier:)

They don't like the generally law abiding folk in the courts. No money in us.

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

this is the horsesh1t approach, theres clearly something wrong with people if they continue to offend, and continually go in and out of prison, we re simply not dealing with these issues, believing they ll some how sort themselves out via program 'personal responsibility' or some other sh1te!

Its horsesh1t to think every one of them have clinical psychological problems, especially the multiple RTA ones, and can be solved with some counselling and a prescription.

Social issues caused by alcoholism, drugs, poverty, domestic violence play a part for many, but not all.

Many simply just don't give a fcuk about anyone but themselves. Well intended people are just marks.

Cycles of same, perpetuated by a tolerance of low level, background violence and criminality in sink estates and areas where law practitioners will never live, and a hope their 113th conviction might be their road to Damascus.

Northernlily

Northernlily wrote: »

They don't like the generally law abiding folk in the courts. No money in us.

Rich or poor, and you break the law, the courts are your friend.

Anyone else, avoid.

Wanderer78

MikeOxsgreen wrote: »

Its horsesh1t to think every one of them have clinical psychological problems, especially the multiple RTA ones, and can be solved with some counselling and a prescription.

Social issues caused by alcoholism, drugs, poverty, domestic violence play a part for many, but not all.

Many simply just don't give a fcuk about anyone but themselves. Well intended people are just marks.

Cycles of same, perpetuated by a tolerance of low level, background violence and criminality in sink estates and areas where law practitioners will never live, and a hope their 113th conviction might be their road to Damascus.

once again, the most common issues amongst the long term unemployed, and amongst inmates would be undiagnosed, therefore untreated psychological issues such as learning disabilities, behavioral problems, psychological disorders, mental health issues, addiction problems etc etc etc. yes it is true, that some of these psychological disorders would involve low levels, or in some cases, no empathy or compassion towards others, but that would be for a very small percentage of the population. and no, not all of these issues can be solved by basic counselling or medication, but in many cases, it certainly does help, but many of these individuals would in fact need ongoing, long term professional assistance and supports, which truly would have been needed since an early age, but did not occur, for various different reasons, but that reality is, these services still dont truly exist in this country, so round and round we go.....

and yes, poverty, generational dysfunctions and rising inequality are also known causes of such outcomes.....

Wanderer78

Wanderer78 wrote: »

once again, the most common issues amongst the long term unemployed, and amongst inmates would be undiagnosed, therefore untreated psychological issues such as learning disabilities, behavioral problems, psychological disorders, mental health issues, addiction problems etc etc etc. yes it is true, that some of these psychological disorders would involve low levels, or in some cases, no empathy or compassion towards others, but that would be for a very small percentage of the population. and no, not all of these issues can be solved by basic counselling or medication, but in many cases, it certainly does help, but many of these individuals would in fact need ongoing, long term professional assistance and supports, which truly would have been needed since an early age, but did not occur, for various different reasons, but that reality is, these services still dont truly exist in this country, so round and round we go.....

and yes, poverty, generational dysfunctions and rising inequality are also known causes of such outcomes.....

You're not wrong.
But your very empathetic view doesn't account for all low level criminality, and offending.
There's an element of the chicken and the egg in many cases - intergenerational offending rather than responsible parenting, a disregard for work ethic and education, of striving and earning, when taking what you want is effectively tolerated, children growing up in such environments perputating the cycle.

ThunbergsAreGo

Wanderer78 wrote: »

once again, the most common issues amongst the long term unemployed, and amongst inmates would be undiagnosed, therefore untreated psychological issues such as learning disabilities, behavioral problems, psychological disorders, mental health issues, addiction problems etc etc etc. yes it is true, that some of these psychological disorders would involve low levels, or in some cases, no empathy or compassion towards others, but that would be for a very small percentage of the population. and no, not all of these issues can be solved by basic counselling or medication, but in many cases, it certainly does help, but many of these individuals would in fact need ongoing, long term professional assistance and supports, which truly would have been needed since an early age, but did not occur, for various different reasons, but that reality is, these services still dont truly exist in this country, so round and round we go.....

and yes, poverty, generational dysfunctions and rising inequality are also known causes of such outcomes.....

And how many of these are nature and how many nurture?

Feels like we are nurturing some youth towards new disorders these days.... If we repeat the same cycle well get the same result. As above is a bit chicken and egg.

The problem is there is no real will to solve it, and I would have no idea how to do it.

All my suggestions would likely have people out protesting in the streets haha, but would be rooted in short term pain long term gain for both people and society.

expectationlost

so where are all these people this weekend?

The White Wolf

thegreengoblin wrote: »

The genie is well and truly out of the bottle in Dublin. The problem is too many toerags have been indulged for far too long with the result that they are now an entitled shower and have no sense of responsibilty. The mindset is all 'we can do whatever the fcuk we like in this country' and they pass that attitude along to their feral offspring.

.

That sense of entitlement and no responsibility has reverberated throughout Irish society and doesn't just apply to these shams fighting on the streets.

Go into any professional environment and find out for yourself. And they'll be wondering why Ireland will start losing jobs.

XVII

will this be helpful to our issue at all I wonder?
https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/arid-40313759.html

Northernlily

https://twitter.com/BluntMan____/status/1405774344752488458?s=19

Awaits, "ah sure but it happens in all cities posts".

Roaming gangs of teenagers hassling people going about their work with no fear of weak authority structures is wholly unacceptable.

The Government need to take this more seriously as Dublin and Irelands reputation as a welcoming place sink further towards the gutter.

Thelonious Monk

It was dinner theatre that was part of the show

the purple tin

There were people well passed their teens in that clip. The baldy guy in the black looked like he was in his 40s. No fool like an old fool :rolleyes:

Northernlily

the purple tin wrote: »

There were people well passed their teens in that clip. The baldy guy in the black looked like he was in his 40s. No fool like an old fool :rolleyes:

The baldy fella was intervening in fairness to him so hardly a fool.