Teenagers with no value for life and no care for repercussions - **Read OP**

Lillyfae

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

Sorry you've lost me.

Every generation thinks the next is worse. Everything I’ve posted is part of your original excuse ridden post.

It’s not normal to be threatened with a syringe.

It’s not normal to witness adults taking a sh*t on public amenities in a busy tourist populated area.

It’s not normal for teenage boys to attack bar staff in broad daylight and the bar staff to be arrested.

Just because you’re alright Jack it doesn’t mean that it’s acceptable in civilized society.

Thelonious Monk

Lillyfae wrote: »

Every generation thinks the next is worse. Everything I’ve posted is part of your original excuse ridden post.

It’s not normal to be threatened with a syringe.

It’s not normal to witness adults taking a sh*t on public amenities in a busy tourist populated area.

It’s not normal for teenage boys to attack bar staff in broad daylight and the bar staff to be arrested.

Just because you’re alright Jack it doesn’t mean that it’s acceptable in civilized society.

No one said it was acceptable, in my opinion it used to be worse, Dublin City was a total sh*thole, I was debating my view on that.
I'm alright Jack, as is everyone I know, and pretty much everyone in Dublin.
The only people bothered by this stuff are people on social media scared of their own shadows.

crooked cockney villain

Thelonious Monk wrote: »

No one said it was acceptable, in my opinion it used to be worse, Dublin City was a total sh*thole, .

For all the pearl clutching I would seriously bet money that Dublin, and Ireland in general, had a bigger problem with youth crime in the 80's, 90's and 20 years ago than it currently has.

Cars were easier to steal.

Thousands of teenagers were addicted to heroin- in 2021 I'd be surprised if there's more than a few dozen on it in Dublin if even that.

Todays teenagers are less into heavy drinking.

Back in the day it wasn't unusual to see kids of 8 or 9 years old from bad families on the streets after dark, today it is unheard of, even kids from the worst families their parents are too paranoid of stranger danger.

I would bet my life savings that statistics would show that youth crime is way, way down from what it was 20, 25 years ago.

clytemnestra

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

For all the pearl clutching I would seriously bet money that Dublin, and Ireland in general, had a bigger problem with youth crime in the 80's, 90's and 20 years ago than it currently has.

Cars were easier to steal.

Thousands of teenagers were addicted to heroin- in 2021 I'd be surprised if there's more than a few dozen on it in Dublin if even that.

Todays teenagers are less into heavy drinking.

Back in the day it wasn't unusual to see kids of 8 or 9 years old from bad families on the streets after dark, today it is unheard of, even kids from the worst families their parents are too paranoid of stranger danger.

I would bet my life savings that statistics would show that youth crime is way, way down from what it was 20, 25 years ago.

That's certainly not my experience from living in Dublin for 35 years. Of course Dublin always had a rough side. I do remember the north inner city was always dodgy, and being wary of pickpockets and muggers around there. I do *not* remember gangs of feral teenagers attacking randoms all over the city, or being on my guard all the time everywhere the way I am now. I walked up North Earl / Talbot St the other day and there was a gang of about 30 Roma gypsies including small kids, taking over the entire centre of the street and harassing passers-by for money. I don't think I've ever taken the Red line Luas without seeing at least one person off their face on something and annoying or threatening people.

There's a much harder edge to the city now. When I was younger I would have assumed that if I was ever in any bother, that someone would come to my help because I had seen it happen - a man chasing a mugger who had robbed a woman not known to him - another man rescuing a girl from a threatening situation with her boyfriend. There was an old-fashioned warmth and decency about Dublin people that older people still have - it was just a village really. It's really changed and not for the better.

crooked cockney villain

clytemnestra wrote: »

I walked up North Earl / Talbot St the other day and there was a gang of about 30 Roma gypsies including small kids, taking over the entire centre of the street and harassing passers-by for money. .

They are present there permanently and their numbers seem to grow- their old HQ was at the electric box just north of the GPO but when that was their spot there was no more than 9 or 10 men hanging around. It's an absolute disgrace, none of these people work and thus even under EU law have no lawful reason for residing within the state, they should all be fcuked out.

I read somewhere that there is reckoned to be 5000 Roma people in Ireland. I would bet there is more than 5000 living between the NCR and Gardiner Street alone.

tails_naf

gmisk wrote: »

Good luck with getting the fines from their parents...you honestly think they will be working? Lol
Doubt it's legal to take from their welfare either zzz

Make em work instead. Plenty of rubbish to be cleaned up, along the sides of motorways, and general maintenance.

zom

Lillyfae wrote: »

Just because you’re alright Jack it doesn’t mean that it’s acceptable in civilized society.

Standards what is acceptable in civilized society and what isn't changed dramatically last few years.

tails_naf wrote: »

Make em work instead. Plenty of rubbish to be cleaned up, along the sides of motorways, and general maintenance.

Forcing someone to work is illegal since I remember. I actually heard recently that work is a privilege and all privileged people who work should take care ($$) of people who "can't" work for some reason. And it was serious opinion spreaded by serious media.

soiseztomabel

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

They are present there permanently and their numbers seem to grow- their old HQ was at the electric box just north of the GPO but when that was their spot there was no more than 9 or 10 men hanging around. It's an absolute disgrace, none of these people work and thus even under EU law have no lawful reason for residing within the state, they should all be fcuked out.

I read somewhere that there is reckoned to be 5000 Roma people in Ireland. I would bet there is more than 5000 living between the NCR and Gardiner Street alone.

Moore st is jam packed full of them too, a disgrace

Strumms

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

For all the pearl clutching I would seriously bet money that Dublin, and Ireland in general, had a bigger problem with youth crime in the 80's, 90's and 20 years ago than it currently has.

Cars were easier to steal.

Thousands of teenagers were addicted to heroin- in 2021 I'd be surprised if there's more than a few dozen on it in Dublin if even that.

Todays teenagers are less into heavy drinking.

Back in the day it wasn't unusual to see kids of 8 or 9 years old from bad families on the streets after dark, today it is unheard of, even kids from the worst families their parents are too paranoid of stranger danger.

I would bet my life savings that statistics would show that youth crime is way, way down from what it was 20, 25 years ago.

Crime in general, don’t know, maybe, maybe not but..

Violent crime seems to be way more prevalent....

Drugs of choice these days cocaine or ecstasy....mixed with alcohol....helping people to show unpredictable, dangerous and violent sides of their ‘personalities’ ......

There seems to be a lot less fear in this generation of teens and early 20’s, of consequences.... because there aren’t many or any...

1. Parents don’t seem to give a fûck in many cases

2. The judges just are inhabiting a parallel planet.

So if family are not setting the scumbags on the correct path, justice system is failing to correct or influence their criminal trajectory.... Garda hands are tied.... society is kinda screwed.

starkid

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

For all the pearl clutching I would seriously bet money that Dublin, and Ireland in general, had a bigger problem with youth crime in the 80's, 90's and 20 years ago than it currently has.

Cars were easier to steal.

Thousands of teenagers were addicted to heroin- in 2021 I'd be surprised if there's more than a few dozen on it in Dublin if even that.

Todays teenagers are less into heavy drinking.

Back in the day it wasn't unusual to see kids of 8 or 9 years old from bad families on the streets after dark, today it is unheard of, even kids from the worst families their parents are too paranoid of stranger danger.

I would bet my life savings that statistics would show that youth crime is way, way down from what it was 20, 25 years ago.

so what? the animal paper boy gangs, al lthat jazz. of course it was worse.

but this is 2021, not years ago. deal with the here and now.

despiste the rheotric IReland is hugely prosperous and has mass employment. Ireland is a normal country yet some people are getting left behind even though we look after them from the cradle to the grave. We used to be a relatively poor, feckless country and a theocracy. And now we're not.

starkid

soiseztomabel wrote: »

Moore st is jam packed full of them too, a disgrace

exactly this. My daughter is mixed race, daughter of a legal immigrant before people think what i'm about to say is wrong. I'm 100 per cent pro immigration. I think its amazing.

however walk down moore street, or gardiner street side on a nice day and you'd think we're in a spot of bother going forward. i mean thats on top of the way you'd literally see no police over a 3 day period.

the other day i saw a somali lad pacing back and forth ranting and shouting at people down the bottom of OCS. alot of people on this thread genuinely don;t spend time in Dublin outside of office hours or shopping. i live in Ballybough. The issue is in a decade i reckon. We'll have an inquest then probably.

we have a lack of police in our capital city. something like 40 per cent less than the EU average. we have a huge social hosuing area all throughout the city centre, with all its intergenerational problems. I would harbour a guess that its the most of any EU capital. At least the least mixed social housing. In the same equivalent area in London city centre i can only find one true social housing project. its a huge issue particularly as SF and the like exploit it, feeding these people with the narrative that they are downtrodden, when in fact (rightly) we look after them from cradle to grave and allow them cut corners not avvailable to the majority.

we're in what Jay Landsman of the wire called the great experiment. except ours is a policing and justice one. An experiment in thinking we're alright and the cuts we made are grand and in ten years time the city won;t have grown by another couple of hundred thousand. An experiment of no pro active policing, and any sembelance of proactive crime prevention. we're genuinely ****ed unless we pull out the finger now. forget about the old days, the 80s, the black and tans all those cornerstones of the IRish myth. live in the here and now and deicde do we want Ireland to be living up to its true potential. we can be a great ****ing country. we can be a Denmark mark 2. we're pretty close. it needs a genuine model of social democracy. which means the dragged up ****s don;t get a pass, yet they get looked after. It means we need to be very strict on undocumented migration.

Dublin, at this point of time is genuinely safe. Yet having loads of micro agression and anger among a relatively large and well placed minority isn't going to be a good thing. I reckon the city will grow and grow. Places like Ballybough will gentrify. Yet you'd probably genuinely not be able to walk down cetain streets at night, much like many other nations that had decades head starts on us. Why do we think ireland could do it differently? cause of craic and Irish exceptionalim? we saw the ghettoes happening in real time and yet we are following it. because thats capitalism and the model nearly al lcountries choose to live by. is it any wonder we're nearly caught up. we skipped multiple levels, which is causing huge ballaches now. We wnt from one of the pooerest most homegenous countries in EUrope to the opposite. Yet some people think its going to stay the same. its genuinely naieve. YOu can actually see the changes happening in real time. some are amazing, some are seriously worrying.

JimmyVik

I think if you want people to go out and enjoy themselves in Dublin in the evenings now you are going to need to police it French or Spanish style.
Have lots of cops in the tourist/socializing areas and come down with an iron fist at the first sign of trouble.
Basically protect the ordinary punters from the vermin.
How many people were attacked in the last week in the city center? A fair few I think.

Kermit.de.frog

JimmyVik wrote: »

I think if you want people to go out and enjoy themselves in Dublin in the evenings now you are going to need to police it French or Spanish style.
Have lots of cops in the tourist/socializing areas and come down with an iron fist at the first sign of trouble.
Basically protect the ordinary punters from the vermin.
How many people were attacked in the last week in the city center? A fair few I think.

Man hospitalised last night in random attack on Parnell Sq is the latest.

I really think that the ever increasing amount of social housing within the canals is only making things worse.

Dubs are use to this by now but it's going to have serious consequences for businesses because people will be more reluctant to go in and let's not even start with tourism...

Strumms

JimmyVik wrote: »

I think if you want people to go out and enjoy themselves in Dublin in the evenings now you are going to need to police it French or Spanish style.
Have lots of cops in the tourist/socializing areas and come down with an iron fist at the first sign of trouble.
Basically protect the ordinary punters from the vermin.
How many people were attacked in the last week in the city center? A fair few I think.

French and Spanish always had the correct idea on public order policing...

No point in me running the gauntlet the way things are here, always if in Vicar St or Whelans it’s taxi back to local...

ThunbergsAreGo

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

I really think that the ever increasing amount of social housing within the canals is only making things worse.

I dont really think we do cause and effect in this country

Shebean

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Man hospitalised last night in random attack on Parnell Sq is the latest.

I really think that the ever increasing amount of social housing within the canals is only making things worse.

Dubs are use to this by now but it's going to have serious consequences for businesses because people will be more reluctant to go in and let's not even start with tourism...

Ever increasing? We've a housing crisis due to the lack. Putting people in leased apartments won't improve their temperament.
Also we need dispel the myth that social housing is all about ner do wells. Working people live and need more social and affordable. It's ignorant to make assumptions and it won't tackle any problem.
The Garda need to be increased on the ground.


Pre social media, if it didn't make the two national newspapers it didn't happen. Like racism, we are more aware of it but gurrier crime was always an issue.

cheezums

Our capital city centre is now a dangerous place to be. That is shameful. Is there any other European capital like that?

Strumms

Most European capitals I’ve been to and spent time in... the suburbs is the dodgeville area... Paris, Madrid, Copenhagen, Nice, Rome etc... here there isn’t the appetite to clean up the crime, police it adequately, we’ve been conditioned... “ that’s how it is “.

Lollipops23

crooked cockney villain wrote: »

They are present there permanently and their numbers seem to grow- their old HQ was at the electric box just north of the GPO but when that was their spot there was no more than 9 or 10 men hanging around. It's an absolute disgrace, none of these people work and thus even under EU law have no lawful reason for residing within the state, they should all be fcuked out.

I live on Bow St in Smithfield and they are up at the Capuchin Centre every. single. day. on the beg for free stuff.

You can always tell due to the constant hollering, because they seem incapable of speaking in a moderate tone and volume.

Thelonious Monk

Roma are just irritating but they're not exactly a threat, or unique to Dublin.

Kermit.de.frog

Shebean wrote: »

Ever increasing? We've a housing crisis due to the lack. Putting people in leased apartments won't improve their temperament.
Also we need dispel the myth that social housing is all about ner do wells. Working people live and need more social and affordable. It's ignorant to make assumptions and it won't tackle any problem.
The Garda need to be increased on the ground.


Pre social media, if it didn't make the two national newspapers it didn't happen. Like racism, we are more aware of it but gurrier crime was always an issue.

https://twitter.com/housingdcc/status/1405897483205627910

If you build Ballymun, you will get Ballymun. It doesn't matter how much it's spun if you put in social housing with no mixed tenure the outcome is inevitable. It does not matter what percentage might be working. That is a complete irrelevance compared to the trouble just a handful of tenants cause.

It's not a counter to it, it pales in comparison. It does not hide it.

They are making a ghetto of our city center and the results are there day in, day out for everyone to see.

Society's ills being dumped in there and then people act surprised at the absolute hole it's becoming.

Shebean

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/housingdcc/status/1405897483205627910

If you build Ballymun, you will get Ballymun. It doesn't matter how much it's spun if you put in social housing with no mixed tenure the outcome is inevitable. It does not matter what percentage might be working. That is a complete irrelevance compared to the trouble just a handful of tenants cause.

It's not a counter to it, it pales in comparison. It does not hide it.

They are making a ghetto of our city center and the results are there day in, day out for everyone to see.

Society's ills being dumped in there and then people act surprised at the absolute hole it's becoming.

Agreed. The main issues with Ballymun were location, lack of amenities and later a heroin epidemic the country wasn't prepared for.
You cannot compare 30 homes in the city to Ballymun.


We should not treat people like dirt because they don't earn enough to buy a house in the latest trendy area.
The Liberties was always working class. They tried to gentrify it and move all the socially housed out of the city. They even wanted to rename it SOHO, (South of Heuston). This is what trend or money deciding were the prime real estate is gets us.
We need mixed, or small all social, near transport and amenities.
We need the Garda to police and the council to evict trouble makers.
Low income workers shouldn't be discriminated against.

Kermit.de.frog

Shebean wrote: »

Agreed. The main issues with Ballymun were location, lack of amenities and later a heroin epidemic the country wasn't prepared for.
You cannot compare 30 homes in the city to Ballymun.


We should not treat people like dirt because they don't earn enough to buy a house in the latest trendy area.
The Liberties was always working class. They tried to gentrify it and move all the socially housed out of the city. They even wanted to rename it SOHO, (South of Heuston). This is what trend or money deciding were the prime real estate is gets us.
We need mixed, or small all social, near transport and amenities.
We need the Garda to police and the council to evict trouble makers.
Low income workers shouldn't be discriminated against.

You are missing the point. The problem is not workers in social housing. There is nobody begrudging a home to a working person or family or those down on their luck with every intention of improving things. The problem is the tenants that don't work and have zero intention of ever working while having out of control children.

It's the latter group that actively needs to be discriminated against on the housing list because they wreck the lives of everyone around them.

BronsonTB

Another teen before the courts....

https://www.msn.com/en-ie/news/world/teen-pleads-guilty-to-robbery-attempted-mugging-in-dublin-city-alley/ar-AALgYYK?li=BBr5KbJ

starkid

Shebean wrote: »

Agreed. The main issues with Ballymun were location, lack of amenities and later a heroin epidemic the country wasn't prepared for.
You cannot compare 30 homes in the city to Ballymun.


We should not treat people like dirt because they don't earn enough to buy a house in the latest trendy area.
The Liberties was always working class. They tried to gentrify it and move all the socially housed out of the city. They even wanted to rename it SOHO, (South of Heuston). This is what trend or money deciding were the prime real estate is gets us.
We need mixed, or small all social, near transport and amenities.
We need the Garda to police and the council to evict trouble makers.
Low income workers shouldn't be discriminated against.

thats a lie. they never tried to do anything of the sort. why do you feel the need to fabricate a narrative?

ThunbergsAreGo

Shebean wrote: »

Agreed. The main issues with Ballymun were location, lack of amenities and later a heroin epidemic the country wasn't prepared for.
You cannot compare 30 homes in the city to Ballymun.


We should not treat people like dirt because they don't earn enough to buy a house in the latest trendy area.
The Liberties was always working class. They tried to gentrify it and move all the socially housed out of the city. They even wanted to rename it SOHO, (South of Heuston). This is what trend or money deciding were the prime real estate is gets us.
We need mixed, or small all social, near transport and amenities.
We need the Garda to police and the council to evict trouble makers.
Low income workers shouldn't be discriminated against.

Absolutely, but arent they at the moment?

With shortages, they seem to be the ones pushed onto renting etc (as they can afford it to an extent)

Also medium income workers seem to be getting a short end of the stick in Dublin, its Social or nothing...

Patrick2010

Shebean wrote: »

Agreed. The main issues with Ballymun were location, lack of amenities and later a heroin epidemic the country wasn't prepared for.
You cannot compare 30 homes in the city to Ballymun.


We should not treat people like dirt because they don't earn enough to buy a house in the latest trendy area.
The Liberties was always working class. They tried to gentrify it and move all the socially housed out of the city. They even wanted to rename it SOHO, (South of Heuston). This is what trend or money deciding were the prime real estate is gets us.
We need mixed, or small all social, near transport and amenities.
We need the Garda to police and the council to evict trouble makers.
Low income workers shouldn't be discriminated against.

No they didn't, where did you get that idea?

Patrick2010

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/housingdcc/status/1405897483205627910

If you build Ballymun, you will get Ballymun. It doesn't matter how much it's spun if you put in social housing with no mixed tenure the outcome is inevitable. It does not matter what percentage might be working. That is a complete irrelevance compared to the trouble just a handful of tenants cause.

It's not a counter to it, it pales in comparison. It does not hide it.

They are making a ghetto of our city center and the results are there day in, day out for everyone to see.

Society's ills being dumped in there and then people act surprised at the absolute hole it's becoming.

I don't think theres anything new about the social housing in Dublin city. I've lived in Dublin for 50 years and the inner city like Sean McDermott street, Gardiner street, Sherrif street were always no go areas. Think was always to keep them off the tourist areas.

Shebean

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

You are missing the point. The problem is not workers in social housing. There is nobody begrudging a home to a working person or family or those down on their luck with every intention of improving things. The problem is the tenants that don't work and have zero intention of ever working while having out of control children.

It's the latter group that actively needs to be discriminated against on the housing list because they wreck the lives of everyone around them.

I did. You citing 30 social housing builds on turning the city into a ghetto and making comparisons to Ballymun threw me there.
If your point is we should tackle the trouble makers, I fully agree.
Leaving things as is won't help. Treating all low income families the same isn't right.

starkid wrote: »

thats a lie. they never tried to do anything of the sort. why do you feel the need to fabricate a narrative?

Ignorance doesn't excuse bad manners.

Patrick2010 wrote: »

No they didn't, where did you get that idea?

Indeedy they did.

€2.6bn plan for cultural 'SoHo' quarter in Liberties
https://www.irishtimes.com/news/2-6bn-plan-for-cultural-soho-quarter-in-liberties-1.1037546

Patrick2010

Shebean wrote: »

I did. You citing 30 social housing builds on turning the city into a ghetto and making comparisons to Ballymun threw me there.
If your point is we should tackle the trouble makers, I fully agree.
Leaving things as is won't help. Treating all low income families the same isn't right.





Ignorance doesn't excuse bad manners.



Indeedy they did.

Point out to me in that IT article where they tried to move people out as per your previous quote.
We should not treat people like dirt because they don't earn enough to buy a house in the latest trendy area.
The Liberties was always working class. They tried to gentrify it and move all the socially housed out of the city