F1 2021 Round 4 : Spanish Grand Prix

2011

Inquitus wrote: »

Fair play to Hamilton, I didn't see that coming! The harder Red Bull try they just seem to come up oh so short......

Yes, very disappointing alright. Now we will have to endure the most biased commentary know to man. I’m hopeful that Max can win tomorrow and save F1 from a complete implosion due to the Mercedes car advantage.

Inquitus

2011 wrote: »

I’m hopeful that Max can win tomorrow and save F1 from a complete implosion due to the Mercedes car advantage.

I really don't think Merc have a car advantage any more, I think the RB and Silver Arrows are very finely matched this season and results have turned on the smallest of things and hopefully continue too as well!

waynescales1

Does Pedro De La Rosa have a twin brother named Paul?

Indestructable

The first two races this year were phenomenal and it did actually look like a decent season was on the cards.
Last week in Portugal and now this qualifying, and it looks like business as usual. Ominous and disappointing.

namloc1980

Inquitus wrote: »

I really don't think Merc have a car advantage any more, I think the RB and Silver Arrows are very finely matched this season and results have turned on the smallest of things and hopefully continue too as well!

The Red Bull with Max behind the wheel is a match for the Merc. Perez once again nowhere near the front to help his teammate.

Joeface

Should Max have stayed where he was and gone for a clean pole lap instead of racing up to be behind the 2 Mercedes .

Inquitus

namloc1980 wrote: »

The Red Bull with Max behind the wheel is a match for the Merc. Perez once again nowhere near the front to help his teammate.

I agree, but that's a problem Red Bull have created themselves and you can't blame anyone else for that. They have built their car soo much around Max they have been unable to unearth anyone since Danny Ric who could get the same out of the car as Max does. If RB had their own Bottas they'd be laughing, someone who can put the car reliably on the front 2 rows, get the odd Pole here and there and give the team a level tactical playing field each GP weekend.

klose

Bit like last week when nobody really improved in their second lap, perez making things difficult again for himself for the race. Ocon quietly motoring along the last couple weeks and Danny ric with a bit of redemption after last week

waynescales1

Inquitus wrote: »

I agree, but that's a problem Red Bull have created themselves and you can't blame anyone else for that. They have built their car soo much around Max they have been unable to unearth anyone since Danny Ric who could get the same out of the car as Max does. If RB had their own Bottas they'd be laughing, someone who can put the car reliably on the front 2 rows, get the odd Pole here and there and give the team a level tactical playing field each GP weekend.

Ricciardo leaving RB is a move that worked for nobody.

Irishjg

Inquitus wrote: »

I agree, but that's a problem Red Bull have created themselves and you can't blame anyone else for that. They have built their car soo much around Max they have been unable to unearth anyone since Danny Ric who could get the same out of the car as Max does. If RB had their own Bottas they'd be laughing, someone who can put the car reliably on the front 2 rows, get the odd Pole here and there and give the team a level tactical playing field each GP weekend.

What a great point about Bottas. He consistently qualifies near or on the front row. He gets a lot of stick from a lot of people including me but putting it into perspective compared to Red Bull as a team well said.

klose

waynescales1 wrote: »

Ricciardo leaving RB is a move that worked for nobody.

Bar ricciardos Bank account

Jordan 199

klose wrote: »

Bar ricciardos Bank account

I think he got paid more at Renault.

MadYaker

Hopefully we get a decent scrap between Max and Lewis at the start.

El_Duderino 09

Inquitus wrote: »

I really don't think Merc have a car advantage any more, I think the RB and Silver Arrows are very finely matched this season and results have turned on the smallest of things and hopefully continue too as well!

Another way to look at is to see how you rank bottas and Perez against each other as drivers, And then see how they're doing against each other. Given that perez isn't looking fast and bottas is well ahead of him, either bottas is a lot faster than Perez or the Mercedes is faster than RB.

I think the Mercedes is considerably faster and max is making the cars look similar by driving it so well. I think that also explains why gasley and Albon have performed so poorly in the second car. I think those lads reflect the car's pace in the hands of normal decent drivers. But max makes it look like they're messing up.

Red bull want to believe they're making brilliant cars so they take it out on the second driver. I think it only looks close because is max making up the difference between the cars.

Inquitus

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Another way to look at is to see how you rank bottas and Perez against each other as drivers, And then see how they're doing against each other. Given that perez isn't looking fast and bottas is well ahead of him, either bottas is a lot faster than Perez or the Mercedes is faster than RB.

I think the Mercedes is considerably faster and max is making the cars look similar by driving it so well. I think that also explains why gasley and Albon have performed so poorly in the second car. I think those lads reflect the car's pace in the hands of normal decent drivers. But max makes it look like they're messing up.

Red bull want to believe they're making brilliant cars so they take it out on the second driver. I think it only looks close because is max making up the difference between the cars.

How do you explain Danny Ric's performances against Max then? In the same car?

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11363892/daniel-ricciardo-v-max-verstappen-two-years-as-red-bull-team-mates

Frank Bullitt

Indestructable wrote: »

The first two races this year were phenomenal and it did actually look like a decent season was on the cards.
Last week in Portugal and now this qualifying, and it looks like business as usual. Ominous and disappointing.

1:16.741 to a 1:16.777, not sure why that is either ominous or disappointing. It was nearly 5 times that gap last year.

chicorytip

Perez has one pole position to his credit, does he not? I think neither Albon nor Gasly came close to managing that for RB. So, Perez is a significant upgrade on those two although a bit flaky and prone to making the odd silly mistake like today's.

El_Duderino 09

Inquitus wrote: »

How do you explain Danny Ric's performances against Max then? In the same car?

https://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/11363892/daniel-ricciardo-v-max-verstappen-two-years-as-red-bull-team-mates

I dont explain it. Explain it how? It's a while ago now. If I were to describe it I'd say they were pretty similar over their two seasons (Ric slightly ahead by most metrics) together when max was a relative rookie.

What's the point you're making about today's cars?

klose

https://twitter.com/wtf1official/status/1391071385263484930?s=19

Not that it makes any difference as he was last anyways, but another penalty point on his licence before the 4th race has even started, is it 12 points to getting a suspension? Fitipaldi will be getting another spin you'd imagine.

Joeface

Was that for blocking Lando . Cause there were a few others involved in That and he had zero choice really but to try push .

Inquitus

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

I dont explain it. Explain it how? It's a while ago now. If I were to describe it I'd say they were pretty similar over their two seasons together when max was a relative rookie.

What's the point you're making about today's cars?

I don't think Max is doing anything that special, yes Max and Hamilton are head and shoulders the best drivers on the grid, but the Red Bull has been designed around Max and that has contributed to their 2nd driver issues, that and a generally poor selection over time. They seem happy to have a single pronged attack on the WDC and it's been costing them dearly for years, along with chopping and changing drivers like a bad premiership football team does with its managers. Bottas although much maligned is the perfect driver for Mercedes, good enough to extract almost as much out of the car as Hamilton can ensuring he's always there or thereabouts in Qually and the race and always giving Mercedes 2 angles with which to attack the single Red Bull.

pjohnson

klose wrote: »

https://twitter.com/wtf1official/status/1391071385263484930?s=19

Not that it makes any difference as he was last anyways, but another penalty point on his licence before the 4th race has even started, is it 12 points to getting a suspension? Fitipaldi will be getting another spin you'd imagine.

If his F2 points carried into F1 I think he'd be suspended.

Frank Bullitt

klose wrote: »

https://twitter.com/wtf1official/status/1391071385263484930?s=19

Not that it makes any difference as he was last anyways, but another penalty point on his licence before the 4th race has even started, is it 12 points to getting a suspension? Fitipaldi will be getting another spin you'd imagine.

So does that mean he starts the race on Monday?

Inquitus

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

So does that mean he starts the race on Monday?

LOL, he probably won't finish anyways!

El_Duderino 09

Inquitus wrote: »

I don't think Max is doing anything that special, yes Max and Hamilton are head and shoulders the best drivers on the grid, but the Red Bull has been designed around Max and that has contributed to their 2nd driver issues, that and a generally poor selection over time. They seem happy to have a single pronged attack on the WDC and it's been costing them dearly for years, along with chopping and changing drivers like a bad premiership football team does with its managers. Bottas although much maligned is the perfect driver for Mercedes, good enough to extract almost as much out of the car as Hamilton can ensuring he's always there or thereabouts in Qually and the race and always giving Mercedes 2 angles with which to attack the single Red Bull.

Do we know the car is built to suit max or is that just an assumption? It might be a reasonable assumption but I Don't think we've seen much explicit talk about it. And I think it's a bit of a cop out to explain how bottas is so much closer to Hamilton than perez is to Max. I think we need to either give credit to bottas for being much better than the narrative in these threads would suggest, or the red bull isn't as good as the media are making out. Maybe the red bull is designed for Max and thst also happens to make it hard to drive, but it's a bit of a punt

Inquitus

El_Duderino 09 wrote: »

Do we know the car is built to suit max or is that just an assumption? It might be a reasonable assumption but I Don't think we've seen much explicit talk about it. And I think it's a bit of a cop out to explain how bottas is so much closer to Hamilton than perez is to Max. I think we need to either give credit to bottas for being much better than the narrative in these threads would suggest, or the red bull isn't as good as the media are making out. Maybe the red bull is designed for Max and thst also happens to make it hard to drive, but it's a bit of a punt

Agreed apart from Danny Ric years ago there are little comparisons of meaning that can be used, and that is soo long ago as you point out it may or may not even be relevant at this point. Personally I think Bottas is a much better driver than most people think, but again the lack of comparatives make it hard to draw conclusions.

The RB has generally been seen, by the "experts", as being the better package this season through testing and into the first few races, this again could simply be bad assumptions. I just hope for a competitive season as in all likelyhood unless Max and Lewis ended up in the same car we are never going to know the real answer.

Frank Bullitt

Inquitus wrote: »

Agreed apart from Danny Ric years ago there are little comparisons of meaning that can be used, and that is soo long ago as you point out it may or may not even be relevant at this point. Personally I think Bottas is a much better driver than most people think, but again the lack of comparatives make it hard to draw conclusions.

The RB has generally been seen, by the "experts", as being the better package this season through testing and into the first few races, this again could simply be bad assumptions. I just hope for a competitive season as in all likelyhood unless Max and Lewis ended up in the same car we are never going to know the real answer.

On paper, we have as close a season as we could have asked for, especially on the evidence of todays times.

That gap from Max to Hamilton is razor thin, comparing to last year. I think people generally thought that Merc were in real trouble after testing, and they probably were. However, a team with those kinds of resources were never going to fall too far behind at all, it was only a matter of time before they found their balance.

Having said that, to have 2 teams this close on this track is a real gift. We will probably not have a super exciting race from it but t shows the margins (with almost 20 raves still to go) are super tight.

Some of it will now come down to who blinks first with the shift to 2022. RB have been clever in the past with moving them around with larger rule changes. Merc clearly are too with 2014 (granted, they lobbied and push for those changes to benefit themselves).

We still have a long season to go, and it looks like a mega close one at that.

Inquitus

Frank Bullitt wrote: »

Some of it will now come down to who blinks first with the shift to 2022. RB have been clever in the past with moving them around with larger rule changes. Merc clearly are too with 2014 (granted, they lobbied and push for those changes to benefit themselves).

We still have a long season to go, and it looks like a mega close one at that.

I think Merc switched to 2021 far ahead of Red Bull last season and that should have put them in a better development position for 2022, this season will certainly have a big impact though, and they may have lost that lead due to the low rake cars getting slammed more than the high rake cars by the scissors taken to the rear end of the floor. But then, with the scope of the rule changes, there really could be a bolter from the blue, Brawn GP style, as various teams interpret the 2022 ruleset and come up with ingenious ways to get the most out of the re-introduction of ground effect!

AMKC

Great job by George Russel getting into his first Q2 in Spain. Well done to Ricciardo and the two Alpines all getting into Q3. The Ferraris looking good too. Hope they keep improving.
Some lap at the end by Hamilton. You have to give it to him some driver. I think him watching Vettel been so successful way back in 2009, 2010, 11, when he was have sh-it times and the Mclarens were not as good as the Red Bulls etc drove Lewis even more. That is why we are seeing all these monsters achievements now. One has to wonder do how many more poles would Ayrton Senna have got had he not been killed at Imola in 94. Maybe he might not have got 100 but he might have got 70 or 80 maybe even 90.

El_Duderino 09

Inquitus wrote: »

Agreed apart from Danny Ric years ago there are little comparisons of meaning that can be used, and that is soo long ago as you point out it may or may not even be relevant at this point. Personally I think Bottas is a much better driver than most people think, but again the lack of comparatives make it hard to draw conclusions.

The RB has generally been seen, by the "experts", as being the better package this season through testing and into the first few races, this again could simply be bad assumptions. I just hope for a competitive season as in all likelyhood unless Max and Lewis ended up in the same car we are never going to know the real answer.

Yeah I also think we hear about these things through the media. And the media will pick the most sensational angle to talk about. There's very little to talk about if the Mercedes is the fastest car again and likely to result in Hamilton getting another championship... snooze. But an expert is much more likely to get airtime if they tell you it's absolutely nip and tuck between Mercedes and RB and we're in for a cracking season.

I actually agree that bottas is better than these threads give him credit for. In one of these threads there was talk about bottas being the worst driver on the grid apart from Mazepin. That's crazy stuff. He's decent and it's very disappointing that he's not good enough to challenge Lewis.

I'm afraid the red bull looked the best car in the first race and the narrative has stuck even though the Mercedes has looked stronger at the three weekends since then. I think Mercedes has reacted really well to whatever was holding them back in the first weekend.

Frank Bullitt

Inquitus wrote: »

I think Merc switched to 2021 far ahead of Red Bull last season and that should have put them in a better development position for 2022, this season will certainly have a big impact though, and they may have lost that lead due to the low rake cars getting slammed more than the high rake cars by the scissors taken to the rear end of the floor. But then, with the scope of the rule changes, there really could be a bolter from the blue, Brawn GP style, as various teams interpret the 2022 ruleset and come up with ingenious ways to get the most out of the re-introduction of ground effect!

Agreed, I think these rule changes hindered Merc and also helped RB. Merc also lost the DAS system, which they said wouldn't hurt them, but then they wouldn't have had it on the car if it wasn't a help :rolleyes:

The philosophy of each car is so different too, and RB totally changed the rear suspension, so each car still has a lot to be learned about as well.

I am thankful at least for the closer gap, last year there were some shambolic gaps in qualy and the race, thankfully they are gone now...I hope.

This is it

LeClerc awesome again. A podium is unlikely but 4th would be fantastic

flazio

Jordan 199 wrote: »

Did Crofty say Ted is away?

Lawlesz wrote: »

Crofty having the top bants with Simon Roberts there. Sounded like Simon couldn't get away quick enough.

Adamocovic wrote: »

Crofty is a great man for telling others to shut up during team radios but then yammers on himself when they play.

Drives me mad. What did Yuki say?

waynescales1 wrote: »

Mother of God Croft is a complete nuisance. Get Coulthard in there with Brundle, that’d be a quality pairing.

Faugheen wrote: »

Hamilton didn't have to slow down ffs Croft.

Adamocovic wrote: »

Crofty going off like Perez was going to snatch pole and going mad when he “couldn’t beat” Lewis.

Sergio was a second off the pace. Was never in fear.

Felt good to have Ben Edwards back. Using the radio stream on the F1 app alongside Now TV on my laptop, sadly couldn't get the app to pause the radio so I could sync it up. So audio was about 20 seconds ahead of picture, still made the most of it.
Sadly the replay recording on the BBC Sounds app/website didn't take the 10 minutes into account so ends before the session.

Jordan 199

klose wrote: »

https://twitter.com/wtf1official/status/1391071385263484930?s=19

Not that it makes any difference as he was last anyways, but another penalty point on his licence before the 4th race has even started, is it 12 points to getting a suspension? Fitipaldi will be getting another spin you'd imagine.

Mazepin. The gift that keeps on giving

Adamocovic

With Mazepin getting his 2 points on his license in 4 race weekends ( so far) could we finally see a driver hit 12?

Has a way to go but would be something else.

Gaoth Laidir

Why does Ted Kravitz not attend every race? I find him annoying at times but I do like the Notebook. Is his absence a warning that this particular race could be especially snorefestly?

flazio

Gaoth Laidir wrote: »

Why does Ted Kravitz not attend every race? I find him annoying at times but I do like the Notebook. Is his absence a warning that this particular race could be especially snorefestly?

23 weekends is too much for quite a few media people and that's why he's taking a week off. Lawrence Buretto and David Alorka from F1 TV (former also working for C4) are also off this weekend. Natalie Pinkham and Rachel Brooks alternate weekends, Simon Lazenby took a race off last year, as did Martin Brundle and will likely have at least one this year as well. Although David Croft is likely to be at every race, he has started taking Free practice 1 off.

eviltimeban

flazio wrote: »

Although David Croft is likely to be at every race, he has started taking Free practice 1 off.

Pity not the other way around!

Charlie-Bravo

It could very well be contract related. I'm only doing X number of races and if you want me to do more, then you'll pay me over-time.

Harika

https://mobile.twitter.com/pirellisport/status/1391317096265654280

Two stop race on the card. F3 race was a struggle with tyres, so one stop seems really risky

BrentMused

Think the only chance of an exciting race here is if the rain starts pouring.

Couple of drivers reporting drops, but saying it's very light.

We can hope!

Joeface

it does look a lot cooler there , still be a dry race .

but I do think there will be safety cars

Cool_CM

Great to see some fans there

Harika

Joeface wrote: »

it does look a lot cooler there , still be a dry race .

but I do think there will be safety cars

You can always count on mazespin

Jordan 199

Mazepin to retire on lap two. You heard it here first.

Itssoeasy

Good stuff max.

PsychoPete

Love that aggressive approach from Max

Cool_CM

Max - balls of steel

Busi_Girl08

Absolutely beautiful stuff from Max

Hopefully it lasts

unplayable

yes i screamed there great move