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Proposed UK Government Amnesty for Troops & Paramilitaries in NI during Troubles

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    #32
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    blanch152 wrote: »
    As a stain on this country, it is far worse when we see Irish thugs murdering innocent Irish children, Mullaghmore being one example of that.

    Is it. Or are there two distinct things here. A supposedly lawful army shooting civilians who were marching peacefully and terrorists.


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    #33
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,584 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    Is it. Or are there two distinct things here. A supposedly lawful army shooting civilians who were marching peacefully and terrorists.

    But any on here have previously stayed they weren't terrorists.


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    #34
    Endaaaagh
    Registered Users Posts: 638 ✭✭✭Endaaaagh


    An Claidheamh wrote: »
    So you're happy with that as long as the Brits get off also

    No, I never said that. I think all parties who committed any type of atrocity should be prosecuted.
    I was just wondering why your post was written as only an attack on the British? Why did you fail to mention that the amnesty was for all members of military or paramilitary forces? Why single out the "Brits"?
    Do you think that only the British murderers should be prosecuted and any Irish murderers should be allowed to go free?


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    #35
    alchemist33
    Registered Users Posts: 10,969 ✭✭✭✭alchemist33


    ec18 wrote: »
    humiliated is way too strong of a word for this

    Cheap political point-scoring by people who use the term "FFG". Not that I agree with this decision, btw


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    #36
    piplip87
    Registered Users Posts: 2,127 ✭✭✭piplip87


    I see a mention of a truth and Reconciliation commission is proposed too.

    Sinn Fein are terrified of a Truth and Reconciliation commission now that they are up in the polls. Imagine if all the missing bodies where found, all crimes of the IRA known and the trigger men all uncovered. No doubt it would do then serious damage in the polls. The new young woke lefty brigade would abandon ship fairly sharpish.

    I also noticed how SF want IRA men absolved of all crimes but want justice for any Loyalist or British Army murder. The bare faced hypocrisy.

    Personally I think those who killed anybody and those who ordered it should face the full rath of the law and spend the rest of their lives in prison.

    British Army, IRA, UDA, UVF essentially are the same scumbags in different uniforms


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    #37
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,801 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Timberrrrrrrr wrote: »
    But any on here have previously stayed they weren't terrorists.

    What the what now? This is more deflection. Should British citizens be shot or not while marching for any reason.

    Aren’t you an ultra liberal when it comes to pretty much anything else, but when it bites home, an oppressed minority marching for its right to housing or what not, it’s ok to mow them down. Because terrorism.


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    #38
    An Claidheamh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    blanch152 wrote: »
    As a stain on this country, it is far worse when we see Irish thugs murdering innocent Irish children, Mullaghmore being one example of that.

    So you prefer it when it is the Brits murdering Irish children?

    And the NI subjects are Irish now?

    Maybe their miltary personnel and royalty should not have been using kids as human shields and holidayed in their "British" NI instead considering Ireland dared to be its own country


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    #39
    An Claidheamh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    piplip87 wrote: »
    I see a mention of a truth and Reconciliation commission is proposed too.

    Sinn Fein are terrified of a Truth and Reconciliation commission now that they are up in the polls. Imagine if all the missing bodies where found, all crimes of the IRA known and the trigger men all uncovered. No doubt it would do then serious damage in the polls. The new young woke lefty brigade would abandon ship fairly sharpish.

    I also noticed how SF want IRA men absolved of all crimes but want justice for any Loyalist or British Army murder. The bare faced hypocrisy.

    Personally I think those who killed anybody and those who ordered it should face the full rath of the law and spend the rest of their lives in prison.

    British Army, IRA, UDA, UVF essentially are the same scumbags in different uniforms


    With respect a Truth and Reconciliation commission (along South African ways) was and is supported by SF (ANC are their allies)

    It is not supported by the unionists and the British

    Whether or not all Provos would comply is another story, whether or not the Irish Labour Party and the Official IRA admit their role is a bigger obstacle, whether the British would seriously set up a proper commission and force the Tans to comply is laughable


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    #40
    An Claidheamh
    Registered Users Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    Also fascinating, John Mercer a British politician and professional former squaddie of the Walter Mitty brigade is supporting Amnesty for those who took out his "comrades" and has the full support of unionists - they will never learn


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    #41
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    piplip87 wrote: »
    Imagine if all the missing bodies where found

    How many bodies are missing now? Is it two? And haven't the authorities said they've had full cooperation on recovery efforts?

    There are far far more missing bodies in Cork alone from the 'good' IRA in the 1920's. Some were even dug up and moved to prevent them being recovered. Carry on embarrassing yourself if you wish though.


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    #42
    blanch152
    Registered Users Posts: 27,971 ✭✭✭✭blanch152


    An Claidheamh wrote: »
    So you prefer it when it is the Brits murdering Irish children?

    And the NI subjects are Irish now?

    Maybe their miltary personnel and royalty should not have been using kids as human shields and holidayed in their "British" NI instead considering Ireland dared to be its own country

    What nonsense is this? Where did I say I preferred any killing.

    This thread isn't going the way you hoped, calm down.

    I want all unlawful killings prosecuted. Simple as that.


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    #43
    Blackjack
    Registered Users Posts: 3,615 ✭✭✭Blackjack


    An Claidheamh wrote: »
    Strange reaction to foreign scumbags murdering innocent Irish children

    I think you have a strange definition of humiliation.


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    #44
    Timberrrrrrrr
    Registered Users Posts: 25,584 ✭✭✭✭Timberrrrrrrr


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    What the what now? This is more deflection. Should British citizens be shot or not while marching for any reason.

    No one should be shot just for marching.
    Aren’t you an ultra liberal when it comes to pretty much anything else, but when it bites home, an oppressed minority marching for its right to housing or what not, it’s ok to mow them down. Because terrorism.

    No I'm really not, that's just a silly label that you have decided to slap on me for whatever reason.


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    #45
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users Posts: 19,802 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    fvp4 wrote: »
    Yes. Also. And?

    So we move on from these things. A better tomorrow for the children of today...do ye feel me brother?


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    #46
    Junkyard Tom
    Registered Users Posts: 10,117 ✭✭✭✭Junkyard Tom


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    So we move on from these things. A better tomorrow for the children of today...do ye feel me brother?

    The Ballymurphy families are still trying to have their murdered loved-ones found innocent.

    Think that through.


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    #47
    Hamsterchops
    Registered Users Posts: 3,274 ✭✭✭Hamsterchops


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    Weren't hundreds of terrorists released under the GFA?

    Yes, many of whom committed horrific murders.


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    #48
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users Posts: 69,156 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    US Senator John Boyle signalling that the same applies to the UK's Trade Deal and future agreements if they once again break an agreement they have signed up to (Stormont House Agreement) as applied if they broke the GFA

    Not best pleased with them for trying this one.
    More playing to the gallery bluster from Boris I would imagine, he'll pull the horns in when the Yanks tell him to.


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    #49
    PeadarCo
    Registered Users Posts: 1,937 ✭✭✭PeadarCo


    piplip87 wrote: »
    I see a mention of a truth and Reconciliation commission is proposed too.

    Sinn Fein are terrified of a Truth and Reconciliation commission now that they are up in the polls. Imagine if all the missing bodies where found, all crimes of the IRA known and the trigger men all uncovered. No doubt it would do then serious damage in the polls. The new young woke lefty brigade would abandon ship fairly sharpish.

    I also noticed how SF want IRA men absolved of all crimes but want justice for any Loyalist or British Army murder. The bare faced hypocrisy.

    Personally I think those who killed anybody and those who ordered it should face the full rath of the law and spend the rest of their lives in prison.

    British Army, IRA, UDA, UVF essentially are the same scumbags in different uniforms

    But would a proper Truth and reconciliation commission not be the best thing going forward. The sad fact is that at this stage anyone who committed shootings/bombing/kidnapping etc during the Troubles is unlikely to be prosecuted and that's on both sides. If the evidence was really there, people would have faced trial already. You might have a few more troubles related trials but as time passes they are going to just get fewer and fewer.

    For the families affected by the killing of their relative at least a properly run Truth and reconciliation commission might give them some sort of closure even if the people who committed those crimes go free. They might better understand why/how people died. The sad fact is the majority of unsolved atrocities at this stage will never face trial because the evidence isn't there to prosecute in a criminal trial.

    A well run commission would cause problems for the British army and former paramilitaries on both sides of the divide including politicians. But at least it might better expose how interlinked certain groups were ie IRA and Sinn Fein, the various loyalists paramilitary groups and British security forces, the exact role of certain individuals etc. That's probably the biggest barrier.


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