Eoghan Harris terminated

Frank Abigail

Is Harris’s old pal John-Paul McCarthy involved? He was based in Oxford, as was Barbara Pym.

Cilldara_2000

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

I'm not sure the moniker West Brit denotes allegiance to Britain per se so much as the Anglophilic and partitionist views that these people hold. See also cultural cringe, obsession with the British/German royal family and so on.

Thankfully it is becoming less prevalent and 20silkcut is correct that Brexit has diminished it severely.

Btw here's exhibit A of the fawning obsequiousness of these people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHsvb7k7_ho

Ofc the video doesn't include the worst, eg that the prince represented "everything we aspire to".

Were the 30000+ that came out to greet the Queen in Cork fawning and obsequious? Or the big ratings on TV here for Royal events?

Cilldara_2000

Marine Layer wrote: »

Were the 30000+ that came out to greet the Queen in Cork fawning and obsequious? Or the big ratings on TV here for Royal events?

Regarding the Queen, no.

Regarding watching them on TV, it depends - I don't know or care what people are thinking when they watch TV.

Btw, even the British media thought he went overboard:

Bruton presided over the first official visit by a member of the British Royal Family since 1912, the Charles, Prince of Wales. His welcome speech to Prince Charles, was viewed by many journalists negatively in Ireland. In Britain, The Times accused him of being "embarrassingly effusive" while The Guardian lambasted that Bruton get a grip on his "extravagantly nonsensical attitudes".

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Bruton

iffandonlyif

fvp4 wrote: »

Well some people in Ireland, as we have seen, have views indistinguishable from ultra unionists. You yourself get triggered by a cupla focal on the radio once. Got you into a rage, it did.

Ultra unionists?? You are so incredibly ill-informed.

It’s quite ironic that you bring up an exchange I was part of under a post criticising token Irish on Newstalk. The response from Irish speakers was to call OP and others self-hating Irish or West Brits. The very point I made there was that those explaining away the criticism on the basis of some deluded ad hominem were hopelessly ignorant of why people were annoyed. You are guilty of the exact same ignorance here! How foolish you’ve made yourself look.

Incidentally, I invite anyone to look for themselves regarding whether I was in a rage. It’s vile, schoolyard behaviour to sneer a false accusation.

Unshelved

Why did it take so long for Harris to be found out as the mediocrity he undoubtedly is? He lectured us for a couple of classes in UCD back in the early 90's and I genuinely thought that his real genius was his self-promotion. I have never met anyone with such a high opinion of himself - an opinion not shared by anyone in my class - especially the women (whom he either patronised or ignored).

Terry Prone hits the nail on the head when she says in today's article "His key instrument was the unstoppable monologue" - the man is an unsufferable bore, ready at any minute to wear the ear off you telling you what a great chap he is. He's the type that if you met him in the pub, you'd run a mile to avoid getting into conversation with him.

I never understood why he was held in such high esteem in political and media circles, unless they're all like that and he was the first among equals. A golf club bore writ large - it just shows how pitful the Irish media is that this nonentity has been given so much undeserved respect for so long. Baffling.

TheCitizen

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

I'm not sure the moniker West Brit denotes allegiance to Britain per se so much as the Anglophilic and partitionist views that these people hold. See also cultural cringe, obsession with the British/German royal family and so on.

Thankfully it is becoming less prevalent and 20silkcut is correct that Brexit has diminished it severely.

Btw here's exhibit A of the fawning obsequiousness of these people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHsvb7k7_ho

Ofc the video doesn't include the worst, eg that the prince represented "everything we aspire to".

Desperately sad that that eejit was our Taoiseach at one time.

FrancieBrady

TheCitizen wrote: »

Desperately sad that that eejit was our Taoiseach at one time.

Desperate regret among partitionists and monarchists that he is a relic of former times along with Harris too.

More to come no doubt.

JamesFlynn

Cilldara_2000 wrote:

I think you could trust the word of the Jewish Representative Council of Ireland when they say someone is not an antisemite:

Mules wrote: »

That was only because Kevin Myers is a Zionist. Other Jewish people weren't happy about his article. In fact Jewish people complained and that's what led to his downfall. I don't think journalism has lost much by his absence. The same goes for Harris.

For me, the bizarre thing is that it's accepted as normal for journalists to act as political campaigners, especially on the national broadcaster.

Completely untrue. Myers consistently supported Jewish causes for over 40 years of his career, which is why the JRCI supported him.

He wrote one article with a sentence that was badly phrased and correctly apologised for it immediately after.

Some who read the article in isolation were outraged, those who knew his long track record over decades, such as the Jewish Council of Ireland, knew the reality and supported him.

For me, the bizarre thing is that in this current environment, a single badly phrased sentence can end a career. It's all fun until the mob comes for you.

iffandonlyif

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

I'm not sure the moniker West Brit denotes allegiance to Britain per se so much as the Anglophilic and partitionist views that these people hold. See also cultural cringe, obsession with the British/German royal family and so on.

Thankfully it is becoming less prevalent and 20silkcut is correct that Brexit has diminished it severely.

Btw here's exhibit A of the fawning obsequiousness of these people:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LHsvb7k7_ho

Ofc the video doesn't include the worst, eg that the prince represented "everything we aspire to".

‘Partitionist.’ Well that immediately marks you out as an extremist and removes any credibility you might have had.

People like you haven’t any consistent understanding of what West Brit means. You use it in whatever way suits your pathetic purposes.

That visit, in the years before the Belfast Agreement, was the first by a member of the Royal Family since independence. During a time of fierce acrimony, it was momentous and brave, and deserved praise. Are you also going to call Mary McAleese a West Brit for the exaggerated praise she gave the Queen?

FrancieBrady

iffandonlyif wrote: »

‘Partitionist.’ Well that immediately marks you out as an extremist and removes any credibility you might have had.

People like you haven’t any consistent understanding of what West Brit means. You use it in whatever way suits your pathetic purposes.

That visit, in the years before the Belfast Agreement, was the first by a member of the Royal Family since independence. During a time of fierce acrimony, it was momentous and brave, and deserved praise. Are you also going to call Mary McAleese a West Brit for the exaggerated praise she gave the Queen?

To me, on behalf of Irish people, 'brave' would have been requiring the titular head of the British Army to ensure they released all files hidden away for another 80 years (that dealt with the bombing of our capital city and a number of irish towns) before visiting any state ceremony on her.

That would have been 'brave'.

iffandonlyif

JamesFlynn wrote: »

Completely untrue. Myers consistently supported Jewish causes for over 40 years of his career, which is why the JRCI supported him.

He wrote one article with a sentence that was badly phrased and correctly apologised for it immediately after.

Some who read the article in isolation were outraged, those who knew his long track record over decades, such as the Jewish Council of Ireland, knew the reality and supported him.

For me, the bizarre thing is that in this current environment, a single badly phrased sentence can end a career. It's all fun until the mob comes for you.

Apparently the decision was made in London, where, as you say, they read the article in isolation, in the context of the antisemitism allegations against the Labour Party. Any Irish reader knows that when he said Jewish people are known to extract their full value, he wasn’t alluding to the antisemitic stereotype (albeit that it remains a dubious cultural generalisation).

Ironically, most objectionable about the article was its sexism, which went completely ignored.

Cilldara_2000

iffandonlyif wrote: »

‘Partitionist.’ Well that immediately marks you out as an extremist and removes any credibility you might have had.

People like you haven’t any consistent understanding of what West Brit means. You use it in whatever way suits your pathetic purposes.

That visit, in the years before the Belfast Agreement, was the first by a member of the Royal Family since independence. During a time of fierce acrimony, it was momentous and brave, and deserved praise. Are you also going to call Mary McAleese a West Brit for the exaggerated praise she gave the Queen?

Funny that you mention McAleese. She showed how this sort of thing should have been done.

I think for the vast majority of Irish people you'll find that there is nothing in Prince Charles that they aspire to. Bruton could easily have thanked him for coming without making a show of himself.

McAleese was embarrassing for her reaction to the British Queen speaking a couple of words of Irish, when the content of the speech was known and worked out in advance (like they always are for state occasions like this), and hence was no surprise.

Dyr

Sure look, you always have that cringeworthy carry on when you introduce our lot to those that they percieve as their betters

Compare it to their attitude when dealing with Joe Soap

magicbastarder

Kole Delightful Woodchuck wrote: »

McAleese was embarrassing for her reaction to the British Queen speaking a couple of words of Irish, when the content of the speech was known and worked out in advance (like they always are for state occasions like this), and hence was no surprise.

you mean her saying 'wow'?

Cilldara_2000

Tbf the wow was a bit cringey but no where near Bruton levels of cringe.

magicbastarder

yeah, i wasn't sure if i'd missed something else. you can't compare the two.

conorhal

Unshelved wrote: »

Why did it take so long for Harris to be found out as the mediocrity he undoubtedly is? He lectured us for a couple of classes in UCD back in the early 90's and I genuinely thought that his real genius was his self-promotion. I have never met anyone with such a high opinion of himself - an opinion not shared by anyone in my class - especially the women (whom he either patronised or ignored).

In the absolute sea of mediocrity that is the Irish press and university establishment, his bloviating self importance hardly stands out now does it?
He is elevated for promoting a narrative that suits the establishment with regards Sinn Fein, for that, all sins are forgiven or swept under the carpet until it's either inconvenient, or possibly convenient for them to be aired.

Terry Prone hits the nail on the head when she says in today's article "His key instrument was the unstoppable monologue" - the man is an unsufferable bore, ready at any minute to wear the ear off you telling you what a great chap he is. He's the type that if you met him in the pub, you'd run a mile to avoid getting into conversation with him.

It's reffered to as a gish gallop, a term for an eristic technique in which a debater attempts to overwhelm an opponent by excessive number of arguments, without regard for the accuracy or strength of those arguments.
Typically any attempt to debunk such a gish gallop founders because it takes far longer to correct every wrong or inaccurate statement then it does to bleat them out and you run out of time in any debate.
Terry Prone can get stuffed however, she makes her money teaching politicians how to avoid answering question in exactly that manner and she is very much part of the problem.

I never understood why he was held in such high esteem in political and media circles, unless they're all like that and he was the first among equals. A golf club bore writ large - it just shows how pitful the Irish media is that this nonentity has been given so much undeserved respect for so long. Baffling.

Nail meet head!

That said, his detractors are no less disingenuous as they employ the standard tactics of cancel culture to dispense with him. As far as I can see, nothing libelous has been said, nor anything that the likes of Harris wouldn't publish in his column on a weekly basis.This has all the halmarks of a targeted assassination with some murky motives by some thin skinned establishment types that don't like critisism and have decided Harris has outlived his usefulness.

iffandonlyif

iffandonlyif wrote: »

Ultra unionists?? You are so incredibly ill-informed.

Wel Harris fits the bill, not you.

It’s quite ironic that you bring up an exchange I was part of under a post criticising token Irish on Newstalk. The response from Irish speakers was to call OP and others self-hating Irish or West Brits. The very point I made there was that those explaining away the criticism on the basis of some deluded ad hominem were hopelessly ignorant of why people were annoyed. You are guilty of the exact same ignorance here! How foolish you’ve made yourself look.

I was in there any I didn't use those terms, nor am I an Irish speaker as I made clear. I did say it was culturally weird to get angry at the very use of a tiny few words in Irish on an otherwise English dominated show.

Incidentally, I invite anyone to look for themselves regarding whether I was in a rage. It’s vile, schoolyard behaviour to sneer a false accusation.

The very existence of a thread about 5 words in Irish on an Irish radio show is a form of rage.

Fann Linn

I hope that when he does realise he's outlived his usefulness that he decides to take some more of his ilk down with him.

Beanntraigheach

iffandonlyif wrote: »

Such utter tripe. This person seems actually to believe that there existed a class of Irish people in the 21st century with allegiance to Britain! West Brit is a term used by zealous nationalists to denounce people not sufficiently enamoured of Gaelic culture: if you don’t conform to their sense of Irishness you must be British. The literal sense of the term has no truth.

"not sufficiently enamoured of Gaelic culture" -
That's a pretty tame description of what often amounts to a rabid, obsessional hatred of Ireland's indigenous culture and language.
A hatred primarily based on feelings of inferiority in being Irish and the fact that it's this culture that distinguishes us from the Anglo/British identity some view as superior and crave to be part of.

Cilldara_2000

Cilldara_2000 wrote: »

Tbf the wow was a bit cringey but no where near Bruton levels of cringe.

I kind of said wow myself. Fair play to the Queen though.

iffandonlyif

fvp4 wrote: »

The very existence of a thread about 5 words in Irish on an Irish radio show is a form of rage.

A form of rage?! Pathetic contrivance.

'5 words'? Why are you persisting with these ridiculous misrepresentations? The thread was quite obviously about the general impulse to include a politicised minority language where it doesn't belong.

Beanntraigheach wrote: »

"not sufficiently enamoured of Gaelic culture" -
That's a pretty tame description of what often amounts to a rabid, obsessional hatred of Ireland's indigenous culture and language.
A hatred primarily based on feelings of inferiority in being Irish and the fact that it's this culture that distinguishes us from the Anglo/British identity some view as superior and crave to be part of.

Where do you people get this stuff from?! Does it not bother you in the slightest whether it's actually true or not?

The rabid folk of this country are invariably the ones with fads in their names.

conorhal

Shebean wrote: »

You don't have to give a care but to go the other way and talk about the pros of being harangued and trolled is a bit much.
In human nature we do have empathy or sympathy for victims not jump to hand waving before the dust settles.

Because we've become an emotionally incontinent culture that prioritises 'hurt feeling' and thus you get 'performative victimhood' on the part of Journo's that all know perfectly well where the block button is, but clicking it is not as useful to their agenda at crafting a victim narrative that suits their own ends.

cameramonkey

JamesFlynn wrote: »

It's all fun until the mob comes for you.

Myers and Harris didn't mind when they were directing the media mob which was all powerful in its day. They don't like it when they get a belt of it though, hoisted by their own petard.

cameramonkey

Marine Layer wrote: »

Were the 30000+ that came out to greet the Queen in Cork fawning and obsequious? Or the big ratings on TV here for Royal events?

Probably lots of that Cork mob were. watching TV is maybe a different story.

Tony EH

magicbastarder wrote: »

you should read his bio on wikipedia. he had many tricks, there was never an opinion he deeply held which at some point in his life he was diametrically opposed to.

I don't think the man ever really had any real deep seated convictions and was more about the game than anything else. One year he'd aligned with this, then the next year he'd align himself with that. Anyone that can flip flop so much to (the point of polar opposites at times) doesn't have true allegiance to anything other than the gallery he's currently playing to.

I'd say he'd offer his "services" to anyone with the right amount of shillings.

gormdubhgorm

TheCitizen wrote: »

They're right to sneer at him. Why does it annoy you that they or anyone else is sneering at him? He deserves it.

Yes I agree Harris deserved his comeuppance
The bit that annoys me is how SF and SF supporters 'play' it.
Ok it is a semi-serious issue, but it is not life and death. But yet SF and SF supporters taking the 'moral high ground'.
It seems like a bit of oxymoron to me to be honest. Given, their history, past general utterances, and dedicated social media 'operatives'. Undertone of anti semitism on occasion etc etc.

Dyr

iffandonlyif wrote: »

A form of rage?! Pathetic contrivance.

'5 words'? Why are you persisting with these ridiculous misrepresentations? The thread was quite obviously about the general impulse to include a politicised minority language where it doesn't belong.

A very unusual viewpoint and I think most people in Ireland would agree.

I hope you don't plan on spending any time in Wales

cameramonkey

gormdubhgorm wrote: »

Yes I agree Harris deserved his comeuppance
The bit that annoys me is how SF and SF supporters 'play' it.
Ok it is a semi-serious issue, but it is not life and death. But yet SF had SF supporters taking the 'moral high ground'.
It seems like a bit of oxymoron to me to be honest.

If I was in SF I would be absolutely delighted. He has been caught doing what he has been accusing them of doing for years. He has also been attacking them every week since anyone can remember. I think his demise will also make those who have the same agenda a bit more careful. I mean what is not to like if you are a SFer?