Am I mad not wanting to get a mortgage?

Geuze

Smouse156 wrote: »

No Irish people are deluded into thinking their home is an asset. It’s only an asset for banks! But as most people haven’t a clue about finance this isn’t surprising!

A house owned by a person/couple is an asset.

Banks do not own houses.

dubrov

Geuze wrote:

A house owned by a person/couple is an asset.

Geuze wrote:

Banks do not own houses.

I think they were getting confused between a house and a mortgage

Casati

awec wrote: »

What are these options?

Look up many of the experts who have given examples on financial freedom. The essence of the practice is around being totally flexible and reducing your expenditure as much as possible while also maximising your savings by learning how to invest. For many people they have multiple options to live a lot cheaper with the aim of removing all long term debt but don't realise the benefits associated with doing so.

Ultimately I think most people don't want a mortgage, they want it paid off and to be debt free, but often as soon as that milestone might be in sight, they often trade up/ or extend massively, and typically take out another mortgage that sees them tied to the bank till they are mid 60's. People often max out the most they can get a mortgage for too rather than buying something cheaper and continuing to try to save.

For every person happy their mortgage is €1000 while the current rent is €2000, their is another neighbour who has it all paid off, and yet another lad who bought in 2012 and paid 40% of what the lady who bought in 2006 paid. These direct comparison are futile unless you know the full situation and timing.

My comments in the main are targeted at the OP who I guess from his intro that he is in his late 20's or early 30's and doesnt have a pressing need to house dependents, but everybody about to sign on the dotted line should do their research and review all options.

Graham

Casati wrote: »

For every person happy their mortgage is €1000 while the current rent is €2000, their is another neighbour who has it all paid off, and yet another lad who bought in 2012 and paid 40% of what the lady who bought in 2006 paid. These direct comparison are futile unless you know the full situation and timing.

And I'd wager the larger part of those in the better position are there more by luck than judgment. That's not to say there are no exceptions but make no mistake they are exceptions.

While the 'live mortgage free' or 'buy your home for cash' makes for a great title for a self-help book, the reality is it's unrealistic for most people.

I see sheep

Probably the main reason in my opinion to want to own a house is so that when you're older and aren't working anymore you have security of a roof over your head.

And this has been said on this tread and others, but I think people are judging that situation based on how Ireland is today and things will be totally different in 30 years' time.

Literally everyone I know (family, family friends etc.) in their 60s owns a house and has done since they were quite young but when I'm my 60s I think only about half of my friends & family will.

Renting for older people in the future will have to made sustainable (i.e. cheap).

wrangler

Graham wrote: »

And I'd wager the larger part of those in the better position are there more by luck than judgment. That's not to say there are no exceptions but make no mistake they are exceptions.

While the 'live mortgage free' or 'buy your home for cash' makes for a great title for a self-help book, the reality is it's unrealistic for most people.

It has to be said that the 20 - 30 year olds now spend a lot more money on themselves than the people that own houses did when they were 20 -30.
Best of luck to them , they're probably right, if they've a child they won't need to worry about mortgages

JimmyVik

wrangler wrote: »

It has to be said that the 20 - 30 year olds now spend a lot more money on themselves than the people that own houses did when they were 20 -30.
Best of luck to them , they're probably right, if they've a child they won't need to worry about mortgages

Funny you should say that.
Myself and the OH have had exactly that conversation.
And nowadays people buying houses seem to be ready to gut them and have all new furniture.
Only 15 -20 years ago i remember people buying houses and sleeping on camp beds and cooking on campoing stoves for a long time as they were doing up their houses themselves while the lived there. And then no holidays for 3 or 4 years while they did it.
Dont see much of that nowadays.

wrangler

JimmyVik wrote: »

Funny you should say that.
Myself and the OH have had exactly that conversation.
And nowadays people buying houses seem to be ready to gut them and have all new furniture.
Only 15 -20 years ago i remember people buying houses and sleeping on camp beds and cooking on campoing stoves for a long time as they were doing up their houses themselves while the lived there. And then no holidays for 3 or 4 years while they did it.
Dont see much of that nowadays.

Yea, people made sacrifices to get their own homes,

Claw Hammer

fairyribbon wrote: »

Am I mad for not wanting to jump on board? .

This is thye wrong question. mad means lunatic or deranged or utterly irrational.
The real question should be "Am I unwise?" It is all a judgement call.

voldejoie

Tbh my main motivation for buying a house is to have somewhere to live in my old age. I know there will always be maintenance costs etc, but the thought of being old and at the mercy of a landlord and paying rent is sobering for sure.

An Ri rua

beerguts wrote: »

You should approach your parents regarding their will. If it is indeed left to your sister you should ensure that a provision is made that you have right of residence until your death.
It is best to hash this out now as your post infers that you are assuming this is how it will play out. Don't be naive regards an asset

If you have exclusive right of residence, that has tax implications for your sister. And you.
If it's her PPR and you're staying in it, you'll get away with it. But it doesn't sound like a firm plan for stable living.

Diemos

Casati wrote: »

Look up many of the experts who have given examples on financial freedom. The essence of the practice is around being totally flexible and reducing your expenditure as much as possible while also maximising your savings by learning how to invest. For many people they have multiple options to live a lot cheaper with the aim of removing all long term debt but don't realise the benefits associated with doing so.

Ultimately I think most people don't want a mortgage, they want it paid off and to be debt free, but often as soon as that milestone might be in sight, they often trade up/ or extend massively, and typically take out another mortgage that sees them tied to the bank till they are mid 60's. People often max out the most they can get a mortgage for too rather than buying something cheaper and continuing to try to save.

For every person happy their mortgage is €1000 while the current rent is €2000, their is another neighbour who has it all paid off, and yet another lad who bought in 2012 and paid 40% of what the lady who bought in 2006 paid. These direct comparison are futile unless you know the full situation and timing.

My comments in the main are targeted at the OP who I guess from his intro that he is in his late 20's or early 30's and doesnt have a pressing need to house dependents, but everybody about to sign on the dotted line should do their research and review all options.

That's all very well but what you are suggesting here is the FIRE method right?

In my experience it is suitable only to young single professionals.

You could argue that the smart thing to do would be to buy a house / apartment and rent out a room or two and massively over pay on the mortgage and knock the thing out fast.

But for most families, this approach is not an option, reducing expenditure isn't as easy an option when you have childcare and nappies to pay for.

Casati

Diemos wrote: »

That's all very well but what you are suggesting here is the FIRE method right?

In my experience it is suitable only to young single professionals.

You could argue that the smart thing to do would be to buy a house / apartment and rent out a room or two and massively over pay on the mortgage and knock the thing out fast.

But for most families, this approach is not an option, reducing expenditure isn't as easy an option when you have childcare and nappies to pay for.

Yeah comments are targeted with the OP in mind and I agree it not feasible for every family in every situation

Louis Friend

FIRE always strikes me as a miserable way to live.

I could live on baked beans and retire at 45 but why would I want to?

There should be a happy medium and FIRE isn’t it.

Casati

Louis Friend wrote: »

FIRE always strikes me as a miserable way to live.

I could live on baked beans and retire at 45 but why would I want to?

There should be a happy medium and FIRE isn’t it.

Sorry to be clear I never heard of FIRE but looked it up and it’s not what I’m referring to - agree seems terribly extreme and probably not feasible

GoneHome

fairyribbon wrote: »

I’m worried that I’m missing out on the chance of gaining a profit in years to come.

And therein lies the problem, that's why the whole housing system in this country is f^&ked, a house for which you get a mortgage should be a home.

riclad

There was an article in the irish times about this,
many people in full time jobs earning 40k plus giving up hope of buying a house.living in substandard rental accomodation ,sharing a house is not ideal when you are over 30 ,theres a lack of privacy.
Unless you have Full written legal agreement ,document you should not presume you can stay in the house for 20-30 years from now.

JustAThought

OP
while I understand your glee at being gifted a rent free guaranteed place to live in foc forever - and lets face it who wouldn’t say no that - I think like many others there are a lot of issues that will arise that could rock your boat entirely and make your life quite miserable. By the time you decide to get out , or are forced out, you could be priced right out of the area our too late (old) to get a mortgage, or to want to rent and/or have to share with others.

Like many others I agree that your sister is getting a v bad deal in this and WHEN she has to pay death dues and inheritance tax on the house she may choose not to or not be able to afford them. The ownership will be unviable for her and the taxman will step in and force the sale of the house. You will lose your place to live, your share of an inheritance you would otherwise have got, your sister will get the cash balance after the forced sale, and a large chunk of your parents life savings will be wasted by going to the taxman. You will lose out most and you will gain neither cash in lieu of asset (not being a part owner) and be left with nowhere to live foc. Revenue will just take what would have been your share.

Should, God forbid, one or either of your parents need health care, cancer treatment or home help their lifes savings will be quickly swallowed up. They don’t sound as if they will qualify for a medical card and medical costs, hospital charges, teats, consultants, medicines etc swallow up a lot of cash for two people over ten or twenty years. The irish cancer society has frightening statistics on how much per annum a cancer diagnosis costs a non medical card family - its frightening reading. 1 in 3 people in ireland are diagnosed with cancer.

Your parents might live well into their 90’s. Many people do - even with bad health. Do you want to be living at home in your childhood bedroom with your elderly parents for the next 20/30 years?

Should, God forbid, one or either of your parents be unfortunate enough to get a diagnosis of alzheimers or dementia you will be forced into the living hell of this. Falls, no short term memory, unable to function properly or be left alone because of fears/absentmindedness leading to accidents/violence/rages etc. You will be immersed in this 24/7 and become the de facto live in carer, trapped.

Should one or both of your parents have a stroke, become too frail or ill to be mobile or need a full time carer you will be living in this too - with working strangers who may each need a room for the 24/7 care - your home will take on a very different tone & athmosphere & you win’t have great options but to bear it. Stair lifts, ramps, handicapped rails in bathrooms and walls, commodes in corners of living rooms, TV’s turned on at full blast for hearing difficulties, burn & gaurd rails on radiators, downstairs rooms turned into bedrooms and others turned into wet-rooms etc.

If /when the maximum 5 hours allowed by the HSE are no longer deemed safe for one or both of your parents who need care either you or they will have to pay for private live in care. 24/7 - AND the holiday days off on full pay and weekend - overtime/nighttime pay needs . Thats in top of any medical care and all other needs. Believe me - its BIG money. The current rate of 3k per week for a nursing home bed (each) (no medical bulls included in this) will seem like a doodle by comparison after years of stress and misery - and will still need to be paid.

Say one parent at home with a live in carer part time in the house (you’ll be out all day at work so unavailable and your sister will be working to pay for her house ) and one in a nursing home at 3k+ per week. If they both live 10 or 20 years of illness and medical costs and caring needs, at the end of that the house and 90% of ALL their income, pension, AND savings as well as a % of ALl their assets (including house) will be taken by the government to pay for their care by the (UN) FAIR DEAL - the greatest health & HsE scam to rip off pensioners, homeowners, and taxpayers in decades.


And that’s all just the start of your problems.

As a fair few have mentioned here already things can change dramatically in terms if peoples goodwill / capacity to be generous even if they want to as their circumstances can change/ etc etc.

Say your sister God forbid gets a cancer diagnosis or her husband does and one of yhem can’t work. They have to rent our their own house to pay its mortgage and move into the one the sister inherited. All of them. You are given your bedroom. You are now living with your sisters family in her house. As adults.

Your partner may not have right of residency. Yhey can simply be refused into the house. You can be frozen out - literally. Repairs not done. Boiler not fixed, burst pipes not repaired, briken windows not repaired - like someone I know who has shared residency. They now live inna rundown 1980’s style unkept hovel.

What if you din’t have a partner but have a child. Will your partner or child have residency. One?Two? Or your child may not have a bedroom of its own allocated. There mY not be enough rooms. Your sister may have the rest of the house rented out - to nightworkers, or dossers, or nice peope you just don’t like or don’t speak the same language as. She may not have a choice in who her other tenants will be. You certainly won’t. Imagine that when you’re 40, or 50, or 60.

Or your sister may not be able to afford the roof repairs, or ‘proper’ upkeep of an older house, or heating bills, or the annual house tax, etc What do you do then - when her cute kids have mived out of her house and into the one she owns that you live in & are playing drumkits at midnight, or playing loud music & you have a 55 yo migrane, or they divide and makeover the house but not your bedroom, or move you to a downstairs ex-living room turned into a kitchenette bedsit & deny you access to the rest of the house? etc.

FRAUGHT.

derekgine3

fairyribbon wrote: »

I should adD- I am planning eventually to live in my parents house rent and mortgage free

Assuming you are male, if you were my son i would be sending you down to the doctor's to get your Testosterone levels checked. It is not normal for a young male to be content with such a low aim in life.


I'm dead serious and don't mean to sound like a d!ck. Also, it's worth noting that the lunacy in the property market won't last forever, prices can't go much higher and there will likely be a crash within 5 years that will lower prices.

JustAThought

I’m not sure thats not a bit harsh about the testosterone - OP may be a girl & either way who wouldn’t embrace a stress free lots of extra disposable income lifestyle if they could. Not everyone wants a family or a high powered job or independence or their own place to fit out and do up or to live outside their hometown or live in new places/cities/countries/climates. I think the problem is that they maybe are too young or inexperienced to see how badly they are hobbling themselves and their life options - as well as their attractiveness to a potential partner - ( who wants to move into that kind of can of worms even if they were legally allowed). But also the worry would be the sister may not realise either and WILL be totally screwed by the taxman or life might get in the way - and the OP like someone who leaves school at 15 to get a job in a factory or sweet shop thinking e200 a week is a huge thing - might seriously live to regret their decision and by the time they realise might be too far gone or late to go back and fix all the problems - many of which in this case will be totally out of their control and unfixable - ever

CarMc

derekgine3 wrote: »

It is not normal for a young male to be content with such a low aim in life.

Would love to see the basis of this claim, aim in life in young males vs young females.

derekgine3

CarMc wrote: »

Would love to see the basis of this claim, aim in life in young males vs young females.

Men conquer, if they at that age and supposedly full of testosterone, they shouldn't be content with waiting for the aul pair to die so they can get a place of their own.

L1011

Take the amateur medical advice somewhere else - preferably entirely off boards.ie

fairyribbon

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/117171725#Comment_117171725

Hey,on your advice I got checked and my levels are okay 👍