Employers struggling to fill positions with hundreds of thousands unemployed

guy2231

Exactly who in their right mind is going to stop getting their covid payment and get up at 7 every morning for an extra 50 quid.

enricoh

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Wellthen why are so many people not taking all the jobs on offer ? Is it because we gave them too much free money and now theyre going to milk it until the government turn off the tap - probably

In a nutshell!

Eric Cartman

guy2231 wrote: »

Exactly who in their right mind is going to stop getting their covid payment and get up at 7 every morning for an extra 50 quid.

Honest people with work ethic who realise that suckling at the states teet should be a last resort.

Wanderer78

LillySV wrote:

Ireland got a lot better at hiding their unemployment figures so would take those figures with a pinch of salt .... anyone that’s on back to work, back to education , lone parents , community employment etc are not included in those figures ... i would expect pup is included though ...

I'd imagine most countries have similar programs, so it's all relative, but as you can see from the data, we actually don't have an enormously high unemployment rate, under normal conditions

Eric Cartman wrote:

The PUP needs to be clamped down on, its very clear that there is a national crisis of work ethic, many would rather sit on their arse getting handouts than earn their money. This really does explain why the left does so well in irish politics.

Again, we don't have such a crisis.

Again, which left leaning parties would they be, baring in mind, both main party governments are from a more Conservative background?

Eric Cartman wrote:

But even socialist countries needed waiters and bin men so something will have to be done

Again, what countries would they be?

Wanderer78

Eric Cartman wrote:

Honest people with work ethic who realise that suckling at the states teet should be a last resort.

So people should have gone out working in the middle of the pandemic?

LillySV

Dempo1 wrote: »

Bashing SW/ generally /recepients etc, read back slowly and no, I'm not a dept official whom I have the upmost respect for.

Bashed no one apart from the govt and top level decisions makers in the payment , I actually said I couldn’t blame anyone for going home while on it ... so your bashing accusation doesn’t really stand

Do u know that if a person had only worked a week or so in their whole life from March 2020 and had then put in pup claim stating they had lost work due to covid , They can get €350 for at least a year and a half ... having contributed almost nothing for the payment and without any means assessment - meanwhile a guy who might have worked all his life for example loses job in shop in April as contract over.. he is paid €203 on jobseekers for 9 months and then if he’s lucky, might qualify for ja means tested payment ... doesn’t seem right to me .

Anyways not getting into it with you any more ... if you think that’s good decisions making by govt then good for you

Eric Cartman

Wanderer78 wrote: »

So people should have gone out working in the middle of the pandemic?

As I said last resort, if your industry was closed then fair enough but if you work in an industry that has re opened and could actively make the choice and choose to sit on your hole on the PUP then its a selfish and lazy choice.

listermint

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Honest people with work ethic who realise that suckling at the states teet should be a last resort.

You realise the other option of giving people nothing would have put the entire country straight into a recession something which there would be no swing or bounce back from.

RandomViewer

listermint wrote: »

You realise the other option of giving people nothing would have put the entire country straight into a recession something which there would be no swing or bounce back from.

I don't think he gets the fact that without SW payments he'd be paid a hell of a lot less, they brought up NI welfare rates but not NI wage rates, that comparison wouldn't sit as well

hatrickpatrick

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Wellthen why are so many people not taking all the jobs on offer ? Is it because we gave them too much free money and now theyre going to milk it until the government turn off the tap - probably

It could be that certain industries need to get with the program and stop exploiting their workers. This whole "paying frontline staff more leads to increased consumer costs" BS is a total red herring, income inequality is at the root of this and maybe people on the corporate side need to take a smaller slice of the pie so that those on the frontline staff can have a little more of it, without changing the size of the pie itself?

In other words, maybe, just maybe, businesses need to realign their distribution of income just a little, paying ownership, shareholding and management slightly less and frontline slightly more. Just maybe.

c.p.w.g.w

I worked in a place before, we got paid poorly(just above minimum wage)

We had product training in our own time, expected to go in early and stay late- unpaid

And deal with costumers, while trying the hard sell with many items that had very ropey claims...

The company made serious profits during my time...

The company gave no benefits-no sick pay, no pension contributions, no health insurance...and they wondered why they couldn't get great staff...

Most staff were under so much pressure to make sales and/or different targets for different KPI's...

Some of the sales pitches I had heard over my few years working there were scary...and for minimum wage

Mimon

RandomViewer wrote: »

Don't think you qualify for HAP on PUP, it's not a means tested payment, 350 is the upper rate ,anyone who was working part time will be on lower rates,

?? I know someone working full time who gets HAP.

Mimon

LillySV wrote: »

Bashed no one apart from the govt and top level decisions makers in the payment , I actually said I couldn’t blame anyone for going home while on it ... so your bashing accusation doesn’t really stand

Do u know that if a person had only worked a week or so in their whole life from March 2020 and had then put in pup claim stating they had lost work due to covid , They can get €350 for at least a year and a half ... having contributed almost nothing for the payment and without any means assessment - meanwhile a guy who might have worked all his life for example loses job in shop in April as contract over.. he is paid €203 on jobseekers for 9 months and then if he’s lucky, might qualify for ja means tested payment ... doesn’t seem right to me .

Anyways not getting into it with you any more ... if you think that’s good decisions making by govt then good for you

I know someone who left their job where I work to go back to barbering when the opened before Christmas. So they worked for a few weeks then and then got the PUP for 5/6months.

For me they should not have been entitled to it as they voluntarily left a job that was not affected by lockdown to one that was.

SnuggyBear

guy2231 wrote: »

Exactly who in their right mind is going to stop getting their covid payment and get up at 7 every morning for an extra 50 quid.

PUP won't last forever

Bellbottoms

[Deleted User] wrote: »

That’s econ 101 nonsense.

If a Bussiness can't adapt. That is the Bussiness problem. They don't have a viable Bussiness anymore.

Isn't that capatalism 101?

Eric Cartman

listermint wrote: »

You realise the other option of giving people nothing would have put the entire country straight into a recession something which there would be no swing or bounce back from.

And i dont think Ive said anything about giving those who truly need it nothing. The PUP wasnt a bad idea, it kept sections of the economy ticking over. But its now becoming increasingly clear that with the economy re-opening we are seeing mass increases ofpeople fraudulently claiming while working cash in hand or choosing to be a drain on the state instead of fulfilling their duty to take up the work available to them as a productive member of society

Shebean

Eric Cartman wrote: »

And i dont think Ive said anything about giving those who truly need it nothing. The PUP wasnt a bad idea, it kept sections of the economy ticking over. But its now becoming increasingly clear that with the economy re-opening we are seeing mass increases ofpeople fraudulently claiming while working cash in hand or choosing to be a drain on the state instead of fulfilling their duty to take up the work available to them as a productive member of society

Are we? Any links?


If it's a person's duty to work and earn a living its also an employers duty to provide a good wage.
You can't walk into a shop and tell them what you think their product is worth. Why should workers be told what their time is worth? In both cases people have the freedom to shop around. If that doesn't suit low paying employeers they need realise they can't afford to operate. Why should workers suffer under a low wage to help a business make more profits? Handy when peoples backs are to the wall and they've no option.

growleaves

Eric Cartman wrote: »

And i dont think Ive said anything about giving those who truly need it nothing. The PUP wasnt a bad idea, it kept sections of the economy ticking over. But its now becoming increasingly clear that with the economy re-opening we are seeing mass increases ofpeople fraudulently claiming while working cash in hand or choosing to be a drain on the state instead of fulfilling their duty to take up the work available to them as a productive member of society

The equivalent to PUP in the US is being wound down in most states, will be gone by the end of the summer where it isn't already gone.

We're winding PUP down as well aren't we? It will be gone by September is my understanding. But we chose to prolong our restrictions whcih may be the reason its taking time to undo the subsidies.

Eric Cartman

Shebean wrote: »

Are we? Any links?


If it's a person's duty to work and earn a living its also an employers duty to provide a good wage.
You can't walk into a shop and tell them what you think their product is worth. Why should workers be told what their time is worth? In both cases people have the freedom to shop around. If that doesn't suit low paying employeers they need realise they can't afford to operate. Why should workers suffer under a low wage to help a business make more profits? Handy when peoples backs are to the wall and they've no option.

Im all for shopping around , but choosing to be on PUP isnt shopping around, if theres a job available (even if its for 50 euro a week more than the PUP as one poster stated) then any good citizen should be jumping at the chance to take it rather than continue to leech off the state.

kalych

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im all for shopping around , but choosing to be on PUP isnt shopping around, if theres a job available (even if its for 50 euro a week more than the PUP as one poster stated) then any good citizen should be jumping at the chance to take it rather than continue to leech off the state.

By your own logic any good citizen employer should aim to pay a living wage as it would stimulate the economy further increasing their profits in the long run. If so, then why so many businesses pay only minimal wages? Is it that being a 'good citizen' only apply to workers in your mind, not business owners?

rolling boh

I THINK THE TERM LIVING WAGE MEANS DIFFERENT AMOUNTS TO DIFFERENT PEOPLE SO THAT DEBATE COULD GO ON AND AROUND IN CIRCLES FOR SOME TIME .

Shebean

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Im all for shopping around , but choosing to be on PUP isnt shopping around, if theres a job available (even if its for 50 euro a week more than the PUP as one poster stated) then any good citizen should be jumping at the chance to take it rather than continue to leech off the state.

If the option is a lower income and more hardship you'd be a fool to leave PUP.
'A good citizen'? low paid workers are to do the right thing and be good citizens? How about companies taking a minor hit to profits to increase employee wages, to be good citizens? Society doesn't work like that.
PUP won't be around forever. If low paying companies are suffering maybe they might learn something like those in the U.S..
I don't approve of people putting themselves out so others can make profits off their work.

Bobeagleburger

guy2231 wrote: »

Exactly who in their right mind is going to stop getting their covid payment and get up at 7 every morning for an extra 50 quid.

That's the problem. Some people will get a shock when they have no job when PUP dries up.

Shebean

6 wrote: »

That's the problem. Some people will get a shock when they have no job when PUP dries up.

Hopefully the low paying employers feel the pain first.

Banana Republic 1

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The PUP needs to be clamped down on, its very clear that there is a national crisis of work ethic, many would rather sit on their arse getting handouts than earn their money. This really does explain why the left does so well in irish politics.

But even socialist countries needed waiters and bin men so something will have to be done

Give up your key board warrior-ing and go be a waiter and see if you can live on a pittance.

Banana Republic 1

Mimon wrote: »

?? I know someone working full time who gets HAP.

Read up on HAP before you shoot your pants. HAP entitlement is tapered based on your income.

Eric Cartman

kalych wrote: »

By your own logic any good citizen employer should aim to pay a living wage as it would stimulate the economy further increasing their profits in the long run. If so, then why so many businesses pay only minimal wages? Is it that being a 'good citizen' only apply to workers in your mind, not business owners?

The vast majority of jobs are not minimum wage, the vast majority of minimum wage jobs have paths to earn more , minimum wage full time in Ireland is liveable in most places that are not dublin.

Its very telling that many people think the only reason a minority of roles pay minimum wage is to bolster employers profits. Retail and the food and beverage trade operate on tiny margins , save a few venues where usually no rent is owed or at the higher end of the market , if most of those employers decided to make their minumum even 2-3 euro more an hour for the entire staff it could easily wipe them out.

The idea that every bar and restaurant owner is paying a 10er an hour and keeping an extra 25 and going home to their scrooge mcduck vault of gold is laughable

Strumms

SnuggyBear wrote: »

PUP won't last forever

True, but neither will the pandemic. It’s better that PUP is paid a couple of months in excess then possibly needed then getting pulled too soon, just because businesses and political elements are clamoring for it.

kalych

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The vast majority of jobs are not minimum wage, the vast majority of minimum wage jobs have paths to earn more , minimum wage full time in Ireland is liveable in most places that are not dublin.

Its very telling that many people think the only reason a minority of roles pay minimum wage is to bolster employers profits. Retail and the food and beverage trade operate on tiny margins , save a few venues where usually no rent is owed or at the higher end of the market , if most of those employers decided to make their minumum even 2-3 euro more an hour for the entire staff it could easily wipe them out.

The idea that every bar and restaurant owner is paying a 10er an hour and keeping an extra 25 and going home to their scrooge mcduck vault of gold is laughable

Agreed it's laughable to think that a bar manager could contemplate competing on quality of service rather than price alone as based on your 'margin' talk. I laugh myself to sleep every day. Mostly at your logic.

AbusesToilets

Eric Cartman wrote: »

The vast majority of jobs are not minimum wage, the vast majority of minimum wage jobs have paths to earn more , minimum wage full time in Ireland is liveable in most places that are not dublin.

Its very telling that many people think the only reason a minority of roles pay minimum wage is to bolster employers profits. Retail and the food and beverage trade operate on tiny margins , save a few venues where usually no rent is owed or at the higher end of the market , if most of those employers decided to make their minumum even 2-3 euro more an hour for the entire staff it could easily wipe them out.

The idea that every bar and restaurant owner is paying a 10er an hour and keeping an extra 25 and going home to their scrooge mcduck vault of gold is laughable

If your business plan is dependent on exploiting workers by paying a poor wage, then you don't have a viable product. Society is built on suppressing wages and the prices we pay reflect that.