Employers struggling to fill positions with hundreds of thousands unemployed

ypres5

Eric Cartman wrote: »

You can get a room in a shared house for about 500 a month 15 mins outside the city, nobody needs to pay 350 a week to live in the city earning minimum wage.

Living alone or in dublin city is a luxury not a necessity. I love how you think 50 quid a week in taxes is abhorrent, you can only imagine how I feel having to pay infinitely more than that

Show me all the €500 a month places please, try doubling that figure.

https://www.daft.ie/sharing/dublin-city

Howcanyou

170 a week left, what about food, electricity, internet, mobile top up, any health issues you may need to cover? What if you need new clothes or toiletries? After you take all of the above into the equation you’ll be lucky if you have a fiver left for a local chipper.

GT89

Shebean wrote: »

The minimum wage is the least you can legally pay, so a worker can survive. Not the bar.
If you're only paying minimum wage you should have to justify it.

The job description surely justifies minimum wage. Basic jobs with little training, skill, responsibility or effort required to do.

ypres5

GT89 wrote: »

The job description surely justifies minimum wage. Basic jobs with little training, skill or effort required to do.

You go work in a bar, pub, restaurant or hotel and see how long you last applying minimum effort before your bollocks get bitten off by your supervisor

Bits_n_Bobs

GT89 wrote: »

The job description surely justifies minimum wage. Basic jobs with little training, skill or effort required to do.

There is a very tenuous relationship between "effort" and "reward"

By far the most effort i ever put into a job was working in McDonald's as a teenager. 8 hours on your feet, dealing with the public and working late into the night. Every job since has been relatively easy and much better remunerated

mohawk

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thankfully the minimum wage is very fair for most of the positions that pay it.

When I think of childcare I tend to disagree with you. Huge staff turnover in many crèches and yet government wants increased education levels for staff. Some places it looks like every member of staff is early 20’s and honestly out of their depth. Your very lucky to find a place with experienced staff and those places usually cost way more (and out of price range for many). Some move from crèche to childminding and many others change careers altogether.

Murph85

Genius move by ffg of giving out way higher welfare, than those made unemployed were earning beforehand...

mohawk

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

There is a very tenuous relationship between "effort" and "reward"

By far the most effort i ever put into a job was working in McDonald's as a teenager. 8 hours on your feet, dealing with the public and working late into the night. Every job since has been relatively easy and much better remunerated

Generally speaking more I get paid the easier the work (I guess my experience helps).
One of my first jobs was in a pub. Customers couldn’t act up too much otherwise they went thirsty. I loved that job. Working in a shop/cafe was way worse then a pub. Awful customers and washing floors and cleaning shop after we closed.

Mimon

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Thankfully the minimum wage is very fair for most of the positions that pay it.

When I see the cleaners cleaning other peoples ****e in the toilets they deserve to be paid double what they are getting.

Get Real

GT89 wrote: »

The job description surely justifies minimum wage. Basic jobs with little training, skill, responsibility or effort required to do.

This is the complete opposite of the type of work a minimum wage job is.

Tbh, if you have this world view, I feel sorry for you.

I think everybody should work an entry level, minimum wage job, its an education in itself.

Even if you're an heir to a fortune, and parents fund college and all aspects of your life, a minimum wage job keeps you grounded, and helps you learn alot about society good and bad.

GT89

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

There is a very tenuous relationship between "effort" and "reward"

By far the most effort i ever put into a job was working in McDonald's as a teenager. 8 hours on your feet, dealing with the public and working late into the night. Every job since has been relatively easy and much better remunerated

Would explain why somewhere like McDonald's has such a high turnover of staff. I used to work in a supermarket myself and it was a tough job physically especially at busy times like Xmas but mentally you didn't really need to apply yourself much. I thought McDonald's pay considerably more the minimum wage anyway.

The reason why other jobs pay more than McDonald's is because they require certain skills and qualifications to do. Also other jobs need to compete for talent whereas almost anyone can work in McDonald's.

RandomViewer

The bit that everyone seems to be leaving out is that lots of minimum wage jobs don't have guaranteed hours and people are sent home if not busy,

GT89

Jordan Peterson explains it well
https://youtu.be/pu__97bVyOc

Tell me how

RandomViewer wrote: »

The bit that everyone seems to be leaving out is that lots of minimum wage jobs don't have guaranteed hours and people are sent home if not busy,

Zero Hour contracts are exploitation.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Wages are too low OR more likely expenses are too high.


AFAIK there is no calculated basis for the minimum wage. It's just the minimum someone can pay. A number that was plucked out of the air twenty years ago and incrementally increased since then.
the living wage is calculated to give people what is considered an acceptable standard of living in Ireland.



No. They vary based mainly on geography, age and family. Urban vs. Rural, living with parents etc.


the government says you're in poverty if you don't have two or more of these:
two pairs of strong shoes
a warm waterproof overcoat
buy new not second-hand clothes
eat meals with meat, chicken, fish (or vegetarian equivalent) every second day
have a roast joint or its equivalent once a week
had to go without heating during the last year through lack of money
keep the home adequately warm
buy presents for family or friends at least once a year
replace any worn out furniture
have family or friends for a drink or meal once a month
have a morning, afternoon or evening out in the last fortnight, for entertainment

Honestly though, it's not hard to get two of these, if don't choose to spend your money a certain way.
Even on a living wage, you may not afford new furniture, or go out for drinks or a meal once a month.

Again, it all comes down to living expenses. Some things are too expensive in Ireland, and suck up the majority of people's income.
Increasing their income isn't fixing the root of the issue.

That's why I was asking what constitutes poverty. I'd argue a lot of these aren't essentials but I'd also question someone's ability to fund all of it on 10 euro an hour after tax.

ypres5

ypres5 wrote: »

You go work in a bar, pub, restaurant or hotel and see how long you last applying minimum effort before your bollocks get bitten off by your supervisor

Bits_n_Bobs wrote: »

There is a very tenuous relationship between "effort" and "reward"

By far the most effort i ever put into a job was working in McDonald's as a teenager. 8 hours on your feet, dealing with the public and working late into the night. Every job since has been relatively easy and much better remunerated

I worked in the McDs on Grafton Street in the late 90s, after I switched from Quinnsworth in the Jervis just as it was bought by Tesco. I went from £2.02 an hour to £3.50, thought I was minted. The work is literally like chalk and cheese. No time to be slacking off in the back stores or taking it handy collecting trolleys. On your feet for 7 of those 8 hours, cleaning tables, making food, mopping floors, cleaning toilets and taking in deliveries.

It was easily the hardest work, physically, bar maybe two weeks labouring on a site. Place was run like a tight ship as well, no time for stragglers or youd be left behind. Also, ironically, it was one of the best induction / training schedules I've had.

Eric Cartman

RandomViewer wrote: »

And you wonder why nobody wants to work for you,

I dont believe I ever said they didnt or that I had any problems recruiting

Eric Cartman

ypres5 wrote: »

Show me all the €500 a month places please, try doubling that figure.

https://www.daft.ie/sharing/dublin-city

I said suburbs.

ypres5

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I said suburbs.

Well how far out do we have to go to reach your mythical €500 a month houseshare ? I hear it's a speedy commute from Roscommon town to dublin

Eric Cartman

ypres5 wrote: »

Well how far out do we have to go to reach your mythical €500 a month houseshare ? I hear it's a speedy commute from Roscommon town to dublin

Lucan, tallaght, santry, ballyfermot, clondalkin, blanchardstown. Ive seen a load of rooms come up for 500 a month

RandomViewer

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I dont believe I ever said they didnt or that I had any problems recruiting

Well you come across as Colin Farrells character from Horrible Bosses so guessing they aren't lining up when you advertise

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I said suburbs.

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Lucan, tallaght, santry, ballyfermot, clondalkin, blanchardstown. Ive seen a load of rooms come up for 500 a month

I think you'll find most of those places are a bit more tha 15 mins outside the city unless you have a private helicopter.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eric Cartman wrote: »

I dont believe I ever said they didnt or that I had any problems recruiting

What sector are you in and kind of wage do you offer?

ypres5

Princess Consuela Bananahammock wrote: »

What sector are you in and kind of wage do you offer?

I imagine the pay and working conditions are similar to what was covered in the Monty python 4 yorkshiremen sketch. Or maybe he gets management tips from the Gulag Archipelago

jrosen

Eric Cartman wrote: »

Lucan, tallaght, santry, ballyfermot, clondalkin, blanchardstown. Ive seen a load of rooms come up for 500 a month

People that work in these industries aren't all single people. They are men and women who have families, bills to pay etc. Its quite narrow minded to think anyone in any sort of lower paying job is single and can just simply live in a house share.

There are many with no health benefits, no sick pay, no overtime rates, no pension benefits. Not so big a deal when your a late teen or early 20's and your looking for some socializing cash to get you through the weekend. But it soon becomes a big deal as you get older and your wages dont increase with what your life costs are.

Eric Cartman

jrosen wrote: »

People that work in these industries aren't all single people. They are men and women who have families, bills to pay etc. Its quite narrow minded to think anyone in any sort of lower paying job is single and can just simply live in a house share.

There are many with no health benefits, no sick pay, no overtime rates, no pension benefits. Not so big a deal when your a late teen or early 20's and your looking for some socializing cash to get you through the weekend. But it soon becomes a big deal as you get older and your wages dont increase with what your life costs are.

According to the cso the majority of these jobs are held by people 24 and under so while im sure some have children and theres probably a few hitting pension age, this is not true for the vast majority of cases , youre using the edge case to prove your point which is a bit redundant

Princess Consuela Bananahammock

Eric Cartman wrote: »

According to the cso the majority of these jobs are held by people 24 and under so while im sure some have children and theres probably a few hitting pension age, this is not true for the vast majority of cases , youre using the edge case to prove your point which is a bit redundant

Where is this CSO survey type talking about?

Geuze

Eric Cartman wrote: »

According to the cso the majority of these jobs are held by people 24 and under so while im sure some have children and theres probably a few hitting pension age, this is not true for the vast majority of cases , youre using the edge case to prove your point which is a bit redundant

Is this it?

https://www.cso.ie/en/releasesandpublications/er/lfsnmw/lfsnationalminimumwageestimatesq42019/

Padre_Pio

Padre_Pio wrote: »

Are the majority of business owners who employ people on minimum wage actually rich themselves?

We have nonsense like zero-hour contracts that need to end, but less than 10% of jobs are minimum wage, so how many are actually on poor wages?

I'm not really replying to your exact argument, I realise, but it is only fair to point out that there are businesses out there that deliberately mess their staff over, to make life handier for the business.

For example, the shop nearest to me pays minimum wage, and most staff are part time. However, what that shop have decided to do is spread the workers hours over 4-5 days.

So instead of giving the person 2 full days work, and letting them claim Social Welfare for the other days, they make them work 4-5 days a week, which disqualifies them from getting a social welfare payment.

(once I found out about this, I never shopped there again).


This is the kind of stuff that should be illegal. Or at the very least, the social welfare system should be based on how much you make, rather than how many days a week you work. Nonetheless, there you have very low-pay employees getting shafted and not really being able to do anything, cos if they walk from the job they'll get no dole at all (for 6 or 8 weeks).

EDIT: I removed the shop name, incase it causes hassle. Well-known 'corner shop' around the country though.

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I'm not really replying to your exact argument, I realise, but it is only fair to point out that there are businesses out there that deliberately mess their staff over, to make life handier for the business.

For example, the shop nearest to me pays minimum wage, and most staff are part time. However, what that shop have decided to do is spread the workers hours over 4-5 days.

So instead of giving the person 2 full days work, and letting them claim Social Welfare for the other days, they make them work 4-5 days a week, which disqualifies them from getting a social welfare payment.

(once I found out about this, I never shopped there again).


This is the kind of stuff that should be illegal. Or at the very least, the social welfare system should be based on how much you make, rather than how many days a week you work. Nonetheless, there you have very low-pay employees getting shafted and not really being able to do anything, cos if they walk from the job they'll get no dole at all (for 6 or 8 weeks).

EDIT: I removed the shop name, incase it causes hassle. Well-known 'corner shop' around the country though.

When Jobbridge was a thing a certain supermarket franchise let part time staff go so they could get workers free from the state, I'm guessing it's the same crowd