Employers struggling to fill positions with hundreds of thousands unemployed

Dempo1

Mimon wrote: »

Hope it's better than the much vaunted paternal pay. That was a load of crap.

I took it when it first came out, getting 203e for two weeks, at a time when you need money you end up taking a huge drop in income to avail of it.

Financially it makes no sense. I think they were expecting employers to top it up. Zero chance with my manager at the time.

That's extraordinary €203 at such a crucial time. I get a sense Gov bringing these feel good legislative measures in primarily so they don't get caught again like they did during pandemic, cynical I know but it just feels that way.

Even the clammer to restrict landlords looking for bigger deposits and extending tenant eviction protections feels more like panic stations that the homeless crisis will explode and housing crisis get worse, its a sticky plaster approach.

RandomViewer

Fr D Maugire wrote: »

With the follow on logic that people should train up if they want better pay. Well, if everyone followed that advice. Who would there be to do the crap jobs? Also, if more people trained up to better jobs, surely that would increase the supply for those positions, leading to a decline in wages or alternatively a huge drain of people from the Country as there wouldn't be the jobs available to match the skillsets with all the resultant knock-on effects.

Law and accountancy getting salaries far in excess of what they should be due to eighteenth century ideals of their value

Smee_Again

I thought parental leave is unpaid and paternity is the same as maternity leave, €245 a week and its up to your employer whether they to it up or not.

Mine will, and I'll get full pay for the 2 weeks but my friend's employer didn't top up her maternity so she was on €245 for 6 months.

The Mighty Quinn

Smee_Again wrote: »

I thought parental leave is unpaid and paternity is the same as maternity leave, €245 a week and its up to your employer whether they to it up or not.

Mine will, and I'll get full pay for the 2 weeks but my friend's employer didn't top up her maternity so she was on €245 for 6 months.

You're bang on the money.
I got 2 weeks paternity, 245 from the state, my employer made up the difference.

My wife is getting 245 a week for 26 weeks, employer not topping up... which is a ****ing balls. Takes a long time to build back up funds again after being down so much for so long. We've a 4 week old and a 16 month old. So we hadn't recovered from the first financial hit really, but shur look we'll get on with it!

jrosen

The Mighty Quinn wrote: »

You're bang on the money.
I got 2 weeks paternity, 245 from the state, my employer made up the difference.

My wife is getting 245 a week for 26 weeks, employer not topping up... which is a ****ing balls. Takes a long time to build back up funds again after being down so much for so long. We've a 4 week old and a 16 month old. So we hadn't recovered from the first financial hit really, but shur look we'll get on with it!

My industry the same, no maternity top up. Going from a full time wage (which isn't the best paid anyway) to then only earning 250 per week. No chance of ever taking extended unpaid leave. Id rather they did something to tackle this tbh.

Dempo1

jrosen wrote: »

My industry the same, no maternity top up. Going from a full time wage (which isn't the best paid anyway) to then only earning 250 per week. No chance of ever taking extended unpaid leave. Id rather they did something to tackle this tbh.

It's unfortunately a harsh reality that employers some sectors will never contribute generally and never top up, it would seem these sectors never have or will understand the benefits of looking after their staff. I was intrigued that seemingly only 40% of employees in Ireland don't benifit from a sick pay scheme, this I believe completely under estimated, I'd say it more like 60/70%. Unscrupulous employers will spend the next 4 years figuring out ways to avoid paying for any sick leave and that's about all that's gaurenteed.

jrosen

Dempo1 wrote: »

It's unfortunately a harsh reality that employers some sectors will never contribute generally and never top up, it would seem these sectors never have or will understand the benefits of looking after their staff. I was intrigued that seemingly only 40% of employees in Ireland don't benifit from a sick pay scheme, this I believe completely under estimated, I'd say it more like 60/70%. Unscrupulous employers will spend the next 4 years figuring out ways to avoid paying for any sick leave and that's about all that's gaurenteed.

I would agree.

My employer would be sneaky in that if someone is out sick they are paid anyway with a little note that the days were put through as annual leave. Made out like its being done for the benefit of staff.

Smee_Again

jrosen wrote: »

I would agree.

My employer would be sneaky in that if someone is out sick they are paid anyway with a little note that the days were put through as annual leave. Made out like its being done for the benefit of staff.

If you’re sick on annual leave and you get a cert you can claim back the annual leave day.

Mimon

Smee_Again wrote: »

I thought parental leave is unpaid and paternity is the same as maternity leave, €245 a week and its up to your employer whether they to it up or not.

Mine will, and I'll get full pay for the 2 weeks but my friend's employer didn't top up her maternity so she was on €245 for 6 months.

Its gone up to that, was lower when I availed of it.

Mimon

Smee_Again wrote: »

If you’re sick on annual leave and you get a cert you can claim back the annual leave day.

Like my employer they mean that you will get paid for a sick day but the employer will take a days holiday entitlement.

Smee_Again

Mimon wrote: »

Like my employer they mean that you will get paid for a sick day but the employer will take a days holiday entitlement.

I got that. What I’m saying is that if that absence was certified the employer can’t do that.

I’m not even sure they can do it if it’s not certified.

RandomViewer

jrosen wrote: »

I would agree.

My employer would be sneaky in that if someone is out sick they are paid anyway with a little note that the days were put through as annual leave. Made out like its being done for the benefit of staff.

Uses up your holiday days, any excuse

Dempo1

Smee_Again wrote: »

If you’re sick on annual leave and you get a cert you can claim back the annual leave day.

Easier said than done, who does an employee complain too? Won't happen in most situations were this occurs.

Smee_Again

Dempo1 wrote: »

Easier said than done, who does an employee complain too? Won't happen in most situations were this occurs.

WRC I presume.

Won’t happen because people are ignorant of their rights and responsibilities, employer might think they’re doing the employer a favour.

It’s not much different to wages, employees have to fight their case and be willing to take action if necessary. If they’re not then they’ll be exploited.

jrosen

I think employers know damn well what they are doing and its not a favor to their staff.

Dempo1

Smee_Again wrote: »

I got that. What I’m saying is that if that absence was certified the employer can’t do that.

I’m not even sure they can do it if it’s not certified.

In an idylic world this would happen but it doesn't in the real world. I managed all leave, holidays taken, sick days, training days, bank Holidays etc for a team of 15, everything documented, each team member gets a monthly rota on months end and yet despite this, every year theirs arguments with employer when he's told what's not used, owed etc, every year I could time the argument, they get the same monthly breakdown as everyone and still the annual arguments (which they loose by the way)

Also something people may not be aware of, every employee that was laid off temporarily during pandemic retains all their B/H holiday entitlements,during first 13 week lay off period, either paid for or time in lieu. In essence if someone was out for 13 weeks , taken back on and not let go fully, they retained all their contractual rights and entitlements, so potentially 6 days pay owed or 6days additional holidays. Theres likely to be a challenge given some had numerous lay off periods.

Another little nugget the WRC will no doubt be dealing with in the coming months and this aside an anticipated avalanche in redundancy claims and possible unfair dismissal claims, Some greedy employers are in for a shock.

Dempo1

Smee_Again wrote: »

WRC I presume.

Won’t happen because people are ignorant of their rights and responsibilities, employer might think they’re doing the employer a favour.

It’s not much different to wages, employees have to fight their case and be willing to take action if necessary. If they’re not then they’ll be exploited.

Interesting you mention the WRC, yes normally they should deal with these issue's but few employee's follow through with complaints but read my post about what's coming down the tracks, it's going to get very ugly

Smee_Again

Dempo1 wrote: »

Interesting you mention the WRC, yes normally they should deal with these issue's but few employee's follow through with complaints but read my post about what's coming down the tracks, it's going to get very ugly

I’ve managed leave myself and it’s a nightmare, arguments as regular as the New Year but that doesn’t change the employees rights or the employers responsibilities (and vice versa).

But, the onus is on the employee to follow through with complaints. If they don’t they only have themselves to blame.

Dempo1

Smee_Again wrote: »

I’ve managed leave myself and it’s a nightmare, arguments as regular as the New Year but that doesn’t change the employees rights or the employers responsibilities (and vice versa).

But, the onus is on the employee to follow through with complaints. If they don’t they only have themselves to blame.

I agree but honestly how many employees in small businesses in Ireland are seriously going to complain formally, there is a substantial cohort of employers know full well they are in control with little fear of repercussions.

Banana Republic 1

Dempo1 wrote: »

That's extraordinary €203 at such a crucial time. I get a sense Gov bringing these feel good legislative measures in primarily so they don't get caught again like they did during pandemic, cynical I know but it just feels that way.

Even the clammer to restrict landlords looking for bigger deposits and extending tenant eviction protections feels more like panic stations that the homeless crisis will explode and housing crisis get worse, its a sticky plaster approach.

Meanwhile the much talked up auto pension enrolment idea will dissolve into the ether

Dempo1

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Meanwhile the much talked up auto pension enrolment idea will dissolve into the ether

Forgot about that

Beatty69

mohawk wrote: »

I know people like this in real life. They go on about raising minimum wage, but complain about the price of everything. Pubs are too dear, restaurants and hotels are a rip off. Wages are one of the biggest costs to a business. Hospitality gets a mixture of staff from young to those who went back to work after raising their families. The young staff are gaining skills they can apply to other jobs in the future. The extra staff hotels etc take on in the summer are typically students earning enough to help them through college.
Also I do believe the majority of those on minimum wage are younger workers. I know personally I was on sh1te money the first couple jobs after I finished college. With experience and sometimes changing jobs came more money. This is the case for many people starting off their working life’s.
I do draw the line though with the employers that treat staff badly and expect unpaid work. This happens in all industries but I think more often in lower paid roles. I admire anyone who walks out of those jobs. You treat you staff with respect.

Minimum wage is not only paid to hotel/pub employees. People who care for the most vunerable in our population, the elderly are paid minimum wage for back breaking work whilst nursing home owners make millions.

Geuze

flexcon wrote: »

here is a thought.

A pub sells 20 pints an hour on a Sunday evening at 5euro a pint.
It has 2 staff members on at 10euro an hour. That's 20 euro an hour.
Increase their wage to 14 an hour and that's an extra 8 euro an hour to the pub in costs.
To recoup the cost that is an extra 40c per pint.

40c on a pint to give a socialist living wage is not the worst result in the world.

I personally don't have a fixed position on this, and of course this is an arbitrary simplistic example but I do like to test the waters.

Here is another idea:

the beer suppliers in Ireland charge way more than in the UK, that is the main reason for high prices

Let there be more competition / less dominance among the supplier, and input costs can fall, wages can rise, and the already high selling prices can be left alone

head82

Dempo1 wrote: »

Another little nugget the WRC will no doubt be dealing with in the coming months and this aside an anticipated avalanche in redundancy claims and possible unfair dismissal claims, Some greedy employers are in for a shock.

The cynic in me can't help but feel this is not going to be as straightforward for claimants as it should.
Despite Leo stating the moratorium on claiming statutary rendundancy would be lifted on Sep. 30 and NOT extended, I sense other hurdles being put in place.

Previously, an employer could counteract a claim by offering 13 weeks of full contractual unbroken weeks of employment.
But some of the wording on the Citizensinformation site sounds ominous:

"It may be difficult for your employer to guarantee 13 weeks of unbroken work with the rapidly changing nature of the COVID-19 pandemic."

And this is also somewhat vague:

"If an employer has verified financial difficulties caused by COVID-19 emergency measures, they will be supported through a COVID-19 Deferred Payment arrangement. Details of the deferred payment will be worked out at a later date."

Government seem to be falling over themselves to support businesses with not a word from those who take the high moral stance of demonising recipients of the PUP.

Tar.Aldarion

Banana Republic 1 wrote: »

Meanwhile the much talked up auto pension enrolment idea will dissolve into the ether

A terrible time bomb that, needs to be added.

Dempo1

head82 wrote: »

The cynic in me can't help but feel this is not going to be as straightforward for claimants as it should.
Despite Leo stating the moratorium on claiming statutary rendundancy would be lifted on Sep. 30 and NOT extended, I sense other hurdles being put in place.

Previously, an employer could counteract a claim by offering 13 weeks of full contractual unbroken weeks of employment.
But some of the wording on the Citizensinformation site sounds ominous:

"It may be difficult for your employer to guarantee 13 weeks of unbroken work with the rapidly changing nature of the COVID-19 pandemic."

And this is also somewhat vague:

"If an employer has verified financial difficulties caused by COVID-19 emergency measures, they will be supported through a COVID-19 Deferred Payment arrangement. Details of the deferred payment will be worked out at a later date."

Government seem to be falling over themselves to support businesses with not a word from those who take the high moral stance of demonising recipients of the PUP.

Extremely well observed, Leaky Leo or not, employment law is Law. The pandemic will certainly play a part in any potential cases taken, at a guess I think employers who availed of wage subsidy schemes may fair better but of course these two schemes have caused their own unintended problems, I've see numerous reports and indeed posts across boards re massive tax bills foe employees who had little or no choice or indeed we're not even consulted when put on these schemes.

Government to be fair acted swiftly and can't be faulted for that but it's blindingly obvious they've ran a mile or deflected any unforseen problems that have arisen and seem intent on not taking any responsibility.

starkid

Beatty69 wrote: »

Minimum wage is not only paid to hotel/pub employees. People who care for the most vunerable in our population, the elderly are paid minimum wage for back breaking work whilst nursing home owners make millions.

exactly i work in one of the tech firm's contracting centres. one which helps generate 1.4 billion in revenue. people don't get paid sick pay and its just above minimum wage. there was a woman who had cancer, they had to run a bake sale for her. in one of the richest companies in the World, for one of the most used apps in the World. ****ing shameful stuff. its a company that claims to employ 7k people in Ireland when in fact me and 3k others in Ireland can't avail of perks, put it on our cv and get treated like **** on their shoe. Its not FB.

jippo nolan

starkid wrote: »

exactly i work in one of the tech firm's contracting centres. one which helps generate 1.4 billion in revenue. people don't get paid sick pay and its just above minimum wage. there was a woman who had cancer, they had to run a bake sale for her. in one of the richest companies in the World, for one of the most used apps in the World. ****ing shameful stuff. its a company that claims to employ 7k people in Ireland when in fact me and 3k others in Ireland can't avail of perks, put it on our cv and get treated like **** on their shoe. Its not FB.

Is there a Link to that?

starkid

jippo nolan wrote: »

Is there a Link to that?

you'll find lots of articles about tech companies and their ****ty work practices in regards to contractors. what people haven't done yet is connect the dots to the housing crisis, and the lack of opportunities for certain people in Ireland. THe tech offices are all low skilled in Eastpoint. they could easily recruit from the local communities for the english language roles available but they don't. I work there, i know what i'm talking about. anyway THe SUnday Times had a few.

ineedeuro

starkid wrote: »

you'll find lots of articles about tech companies and their ****ty work practices in regards to contractors. what people haven't done yet is connect the dots to the housing crisis, and the lack of opportunities for certain people in Ireland. THe tech offices are all low skilled in Eastpoint. they could easily recruit from the local communities for the english language roles available but they don't. I work there, i know what i'm talking about. anyway THe SUnday Times had a few.

If you are a contractor you are then not working for that company. You are contracted in by a 3rd party. If you have a complaint you need to raise with the company that employees you.

They are also the ones who pay you. they are the ones who should provide sick pay etc. I think you will find the contractor company are making huge profits on each person they provide into these companies. So your problem doesn't lie with the large MNC