Employers struggling to fill positions with hundreds of thousands unemployed

Tar.Aldarion

It is the MNC getting another company to do the dirty work to give less benefits and rights, definitely on them too. People can be contractors to a company for years and it is a handy out for them.

ineedeuro

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

It is the MNC getting another company to do the dirty work to give less benefits and rights, definitely on them too. People can be contractors to a company for years and it is a handy out for them.

How is it on them?

The World is full of companies contracting for other companies to do work. That is all sort's of outsourcing to staff aug. The company who brings in these contracts have no control what so ever of the T&C's the employees have signed up to.

If the employees of that company have an issue they approach the company they signed a contract with, they are the ones who can change terms etc.

Every day of the week these contractor companies are sucking up staff all around Ireland, then going to MNC who cannot find staff in some circumstances and saying they can provide at XYZ.

Tar.Aldarion

The likes of Google or Microsoft etc are able to find whatever staff they want and are not looking to contracting companies to fill roles due to that, yet google has over 100,000 contractors. Full time staff are costly due to administration, benefits, compensation, and potential liability. They are perfectly happy for them not to get sick leave or vacation in the US. What happened when the pandemic hit? Thousands of people that had left jobs for the chance to be even a contractor at a company like this were dropped easily. They want these contracting companies to exist. There are essentially caste systems in these offices where you wear colour coded badges to show you don't have the same rights as the other employees, get paid less, can't even use the same cafeterias and other amenities. No free coffee for you red badge boy. Often people take these jobs for the mere hope of getting a full time job in years (with 15 internal references) and of course the company hiring them as contractors are happy about it, they have huge power here.

ineedeuro

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The likes of Google or Microsoft etc are able to find whatever staff they want and are not looking to contracting companies to fill roles due to that, yet google has over 100,000 contractors. Full time staff are costly due to administration, benefits, compensation, and potential liability. They are perfectly happy for them not to get sick leave or vacation in the US. What happened when the pandemic hit? Thousands of people that had left jobs for the chance to be even a contractor at a company like this were dropped easily. They want these contracting companies to exist. There are essentially caste systems in these offices where you wear colour coded badges to show you don't have the same rights as the other employees, get paid less, can't even use the same cafeterias and other amenities. No free coffee for you red badge boy. Often people take these jobs for the mere hope of getting a full time job in years (with 15 internal references) and of course the company hiring them as contractors are happy about it, they have huge power here.

We don't live in the US. Employment law in the US is completely different to over here so its irrelevant.

The reason you have different colour badges is because contractors are not allowed access to some parts of building etc I have found. This is because they are not employees of the company.

Not sure how you still dont get it, in this case google has zero information on the employees wages. That is between them and the company they are with. If the employee has a problem then go to the company which they signed a contract with and complain.

I am surprised by the lack of knowledge about contractors, if it is such a terrible thing then don't sign up with the companies. Simple.

zom

ineedeuro wrote: »

The reason you have different colour badges is because contractors are not allowed access to some parts of building etc

That's exactly what Tar.Aldarion said:

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

you wear colour coded badges to show you don't have the same rights as the other employees, get paid less, can't even use the same cafeterias and other amenities.

Dyr

Tar.Aldarion wrote: »

The likes of Google or Microsoft etc are able to find whatever staff they want and are not looking to contracting companies to fill roles due to that, yet google has over 100,000 contractors. Full time staff are costly due to administration, benefits, compensation, and potential liability. They are perfectly happy for them not to get sick leave or vacation in the US. What happened when the pandemic hit? Thousands of people that had left jobs for the chance to be even a contractor at a company like this were dropped easily. They want these contracting companies to exist. There are essentially caste systems in these offices where you wear colour coded badges to show you don't have the same rights as the other employees, get paid less, can't even use the same cafeterias and other amenities. No free coffee for you red badge boy. Often people take these jobs for the mere hope of getting a full time job in years (with 15 internal references) and of course the company hiring them as contractors are happy about it, they have huge power here.

I've never been able to figure out how contracting and services companies in the EU get away with it. It's fairly obvious that its all just to avoid employment law or shift jobs outside of the jurisdiction.

starkid

ineedeuro wrote: »

If you are a contractor you are then not working for that company. You are contracted in by a 3rd party. If you have a complaint you need to raise with the company that employees you.

They are also the ones who pay you. they are the ones who should provide sick pay etc. I think you will find the contractor company are making huge profits on each person they provide into these companies. So your problem doesn't lie with the large MNC

So can you explain why a tech company like Google claims they employ over 8k people in Ireland?

BUt sure thanks mr HR for your insight, i totally didn't get that. :rolleyes: i must have missed the memo. i work inside one with pgms. They know the wages. They set the bonuses and targets. Please stop saying things you clearly don't understand. Its not all equal.

Of course much of the culture is fostered by the MNC. Your being obtuse or naive if you think it isn't. You're giving them a ridiculous pass. Look into the history of Microsoft and its contracting culture for some insight. And a hint to how wrong you are, the WFH policy i'm currently on, was set by the tech company not the contractor. OF course "the client" (how the contractor refers to them) has no say, no say whatsoever in this.

The only reason they get away with this **** is because of people like you. Apologists and gaslighters for the tech industry. Its sickening really.

I'm under no illusions how my bread is buttered. When i walk into a google plated and paid for building but get told im getting docked pay because my daughter had to attend emergency department for mental health crisis, don't worry i get it. I never said i'm employed by the client. But 1 don't condencend to me and 2 don't be so utterly naieve (or complicit if you are in that area) to think its all on the contractor. There's a thing called benchmarks etc. There were Mountainview walkouts and internal memos over the system being two tier. Just google it...

starkid

ineedeuro wrote: »

We don't live in the US. Employment law in the US is completely different to over here so its irrelevant.

The reason you have different colour badges is because contractors are not allowed access to some parts of building etc I have found. This is because they are not employees of the company.

Not sure how you still dont get it, in this case google has zero information on the employees wages. That is between them and the company they are with. If the employee has a problem then go to the company which they signed a contract with and complain.

I am surprised by the lack of knowledge about contractors, if it is such a terrible thing then don't sign up with the companies. Simple.

jesus this is such a simplistic, and utterly wrong take. You clearly haven't done any research into it. Google actually changed some policy around this due to non contracting staff protests. Wages, contracts lengths, leaves etc. Therefore your position is debunked. I've seen the internal emails, read the reports and media stories.

Facebook is being sued by contractors. So yeah i mean the way your slanting it, the media and courts should be sued by Facebook for getting it so wrong. I mean it was all on the contracter. jaysis

the tech companies know the wages ffs. They set the targets and bonus structure. they said the contractors could be wfh or not. do some research or talk to people involved in different areas before you take such a bloody absolute, arrogant position.

If the tech companies took a greater interest and responsibility in their contractors recruitment and retention then maybe we wouldn't be heading for absolute chaos with this. Instead we have apologists like you claiming its got nothing to do with them, people with cancer not getting paid is all on the evil contractors, while SUndar Pichai visits Dublin and claims me as part of his 8k strong workforce, enabling taxt breaks, governments ear, kudos and goodwill. You can't have it both ways.

ineedeuro

starkid wrote: »

jesus this is such a simplistic, and utterly wrong take. You clearly haven't done any research into it. Google actually changed some policy around this due to non contracting staff protests. Wages, contracts lengths, leaves etc. Therefore your position is debunked. I've seen the internal emails, read the reports and media stories.

Facebook is being sued by contractors. So yeah i mean the way your slanting it, the media and courts should be sued by Facebook for getting it so wrong. I mean it was all on the contracter. jaysis

the tech companies know the wages ffs. They set the targets and bonus structure. they said the contractors could be wfh or not. do some research or talk to people involved in different areas before you take such a bloody absolute, arrogant position.

If the tech companies took a greater interest and responsibility in their contractors recruitment and retention then maybe we wouldn't be heading for absolute chaos with this. Instead we have apologists like you claiming its got nothing to do with them, people with cancer not getting paid is all on the evil contractors, while SUndar Pichai visits Dublin and claims me as part of his 8k strong workforce, enabling taxt breaks, governments ear, kudos and goodwill. You can't have it both ways.

They don't know the wages unless you signed in your contract that they can be told your wages? what does it say in your contract?

In regards to signed a contract which says you can docked pay for taking personal time well that is your own fault. You should always read the contract

In terms of a bonus, of course they don't need to know you wages. They agree with contract company lets say a 60/40 spilt. 60% up front on wages and 40% on bonus. They agree 100k for you and give 60k and then 40k if you meet all targets
It is then down to what you are negotiated with the contractor companies in regards to what you are actually paid.

starkid

ineedeuro wrote: »

They don't know the wages unless you signed in your contract that they can be told your wages? what does it say in your contract?

In regards to signed a contract which says you can docked pay for taking personal time well that is your own fault. You should always read the contract

i'm telling you in this case they do know.

seriously get stuffed with your last line you jerk. it wasn't ****ing personal time you absolute bootlicker. it was refused force majeur.ou for a company that loves to trade on mental health and wellness, its quite a look for agents interacting on their behalf.

Anyway you've been proved wrong and your Sealioning now.

theres been government intervention on the back of all these cases so you're the one talking through your hoop.

All that is before you even get to the unethical practices and shoddy work equipment that are set by the MNC.

Obviously some contracting places are different. This is the one in my experience. In Microsoft i know the contractors from arvato(now majorel) have to do the same hours because the "client" wants that parity, but of course not in wages.

ineedeuro

starkid wrote: »

i'm telling you in this case they do know.

seriously get stuffed with your last line you jerk. it wasn't ****ing personal time you absolute bootlicker. it was refused force majeur.ou for a company that loves to trade on mental health and wellness, its quite a look for agents interacting on their behalf.

Anyway you've been proved wrong and your Sealioning now.

theres been government intervention on the back of all these cases so you're the one talking through your hoop.

All that is before you even get to the unethical practices and shoddy work equipment that are set by the MNC.

Obviously some contracting places are different. This is the one in my experience. In Microsoft i know the contractors from arvato(now majorel) have to do the same hours because the "client" wants that parity, but of course not in wages.

If it was force majeure you are entitled to it so they cannot refuse it. It illegal, simple as that.

You seem incapable of understanding that you signed the contract, I didn't so no idea why you are insulting me. Did you read the contract before you signed it?

Plus you just admitted on the post that other contract companies are different, so again it goes back to what T&C you signed. If you signed a s**ty contract that is on you, nobody else.

starkid

ineedeuro wrote: »

If it was force majeure you are entitled to it so they cannot refuse it. It illegal, simple as that.

You seem incapable of understanding that you signed the contract, I didn't so no idea why you are insulting me. Did you read the contract before you signed it?

Plus you just admitted on the post that other contract companies are different, so again it goes back to what T&C you signed. If you signed a s**ty contract that is on you, nobody else.

well they did.

they tuped the contract from CPL. signed the contract...what are you on about. Stop sealioning on that point man, its annoying as hell. ****ty work practices etc aren't on me they are on the people and organisations who create it. Thats the reality. I'm insulting you cause you're gaslighting me and defending ****ty organisations. One of the richest organisations benefiting from a system that doesn't pay sick pay or has such disdain for people in its sphere is immoral.
Its people like you that allow it to go on. I could probably try for constructive dismissal at this point due to a number of factors but do i want my name dragged into the mud. I applied for numerous roles however im coming up against the exact same problem im outlining. People with two or three languages being able to secure jobs. I've had two utterly terrible, colleagues with no degrees leave my place and secure work that i haven't even got an interview for.

all i'm saying is its not as simple as you make out. and what im saying about others is just that its common, but its not applicable to every contracting position. I'm telling you that i know for a fact that Google knows every detail about everything in its eastpoint operation. I don't quibble that yeah i don't work directly for the organisation and b that they create a complex situation where they value us per head and pay on that. But to keep it on topic the whole area is a complex beast and one now that is directly affecting the labor market and the costs etc.

Google has lost over 1k people to tiktok paying 10k more. Where are the numbers replacing them coming from? clue, its not the people on PUP or irish graduates etc.

ineedeuro

starkid wrote: »

well they did.

they tuped the contract from CPL. signed the contract...what are you on about. Stop sealioning on that point man, its annoying as hell. ****ty work practices etc aren't on me they are on the people and organisations who create it. Thats the reality. I'm insulting you cause you're gaslighting me and defending ****ty organisations. Its people like you that allow it to go on. I could probably try for constructive dismissal at this point due to a number of factors but do i want my name dragged into the mud. I applied for numerous roles however im coming up against the exact same problem im outlining. People with two or three languages being able to secure jobs. I've had two utterly terrible, colleagues with no degrees leave my place and secure work that i haven't even got an interview for.

all i'm saying is its not as simple as you make out. and what im saying about others is just that its common, but its not applicable to every contracting position. I'm telling you that i know for a fact that Google knows every detail about everything in its eastpoint operation. I don't quibble that yeah i don't work directly for the organisation and b that they create a complex situation where they value us per head and pay on that. But to keep it on topic the whole area is a complex beast and one now that is directly affecting the labor market and the costs etc.

As part of a TUPE/ARD they cannot change the T&C of your contract.

Why would your name get dragged through the mud? everyone is entitled to force majeure so if they didn't provide it is illegal. The company name would be dragged through the mud if they are not adhering to employment law in Ireland.

Final point on it anyway. Best of luck

I will give you simple calculation of earnings and rent in Ireland and Lithuania to make rough understanding why many places cant find cheap labour anymore.
Many cheap labour based places simply cant find workers because they gone home.
Person from Lithuania in Ireland at minimum wage has 1500 euros per month or 3000 per couple
The house rent in Ireland is about 1300 euros at average that not include Dublin
3000 -1300 = 1700 left for both or 850 euros per person
The average low paid labour salary in Lithuania home are 800 or 1600 euros for couple
The average rent not include capital Vilnius is 250 euros per month
So 1600-250=1350 or 675 per person what is only 175 euros less than in Ireland
Some could live at own or parents property and dont pay rent at all when in Ireland everybody had pay it
The economy situation in Poland even better and salary minus rent there is even bigger than in Ireland
That is one of the main reasons why employers in Ireland cant find labour which came back home already and not gona back to Ireland due with small wages and high rents

RandomViewer

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I will give you simple calculation of earnings and rent in Ireland and Lithuania to make rough understanding why many places cant find cheap labour anymore.
Many cheap labour based places simply cant find workers because they gone home.
Person from Lithuania in Ireland at minimum wage has 1500 euros per month or 3000 per couple
The house rent in Ireland is about 1300 euros at average that not include Dublin
3000 -1300 = 1700 left for both or 850 euros per person
The average low paid labour salary in Lithuania home are 800 or 1600 euros for couple
The average rent not include capital Vilnius is 250 euros per month
So 1600-250=1350 or 675 per person what is only 175 euros less than in Ireland
Some could live at own or parents property and dont pay rent at all when in Ireland everybody had pay it
The economy situation in Poland even better and salary minus rent there is even bigger than in Ireland
That is one of the main reasons why employers in Ireland cant find labour which came back home already and not gona back to Ireland due with small wages and high rents

Rents would be reasonable where I'm from but lots of Eastern European workers are heading home for the reasons you say , many of them have been here for quite a while,

RandomViewer

India seems to be the source if cheap labour at the moment, nursing homes filling the positions they lost to the HSE

malinheader

€10 an hour is minimum wage but far from a living wage in this country at the present time.
Minimum wage for low paid jobs is why alot of people shun these jobs.

mondeoman72

Social welfare emailing out a link to a jobs fair tomorrow. Will be interesting to see what they say. 11am Thursday


https://vimeo.com/event/1059307/6714c118f7

The difference from Eastern Europe labor and labor coming from South America or Asia is
The Eastern European was highly educated and skilled also highly motivated and many of them came back or coming back home because wages in them countries minus rent in Ireland getting the same .
Mainly they came to earn money for property in own countries or start own business at home
The labor from South America and Asia are less educated and less motivated.Mainly they come to create life in Ireland using social welfare system.Not all for sure.
The problem will be only bigger and if government will reduce social welfare we only will have more criminal activity on streets.
Ireland will facing serious issues with cheap labor and social housing.

Lets wait when quarantine in Australia will be gone and things in USA will get better !
Tens of thousands Irish youngsters will fly from Ireland !

c.p.w.g.w

mondeoman72 wrote: »

Social welfare emailing out a link to a jobs fair tomorrow. Will be interesting to see what they say. 11am Thursday


https://vimeo.com/event/1059307/6714c118f7

Ah yeah working unsociable hours dealing with drunks and Karen's... hospitality is a soul destroying industry

malinheader

c.p.w.g.w wrote: »

Ah yeah working unsociable hours dealing with drunks and Karen's... hospitality is a soul destroying industry

It sure is and your expected to do it for peanuts in the biggest majority of places. To much of a gap in the minimum wage and a fair living wage.

mondeoman72

I actually agree but as a job seeker, you are supposed to be seeking. Don't give them a reason to sanction you.
If you are vaccinated but still in a vulnerable group, this is unsuitable anyway, but would that stands up to a sw inspector?

mondeoman72

if anyone is interested, there is a presentation starting now.


https://vimeo.com/event/1059307/videos/560364331/6714c118f7

oopsies

I worked in a hotel throughout college and made a fortune! We used to just live off tips and save the rest.

The only reason I wouldnt go back to it now is the hours. I have small babies and couldnt really work residents bars again!

Its not all bad. We all had a ball; was hard work but good craic!

Sunny Disposition

Revolution 1917 wrote: »

The difference from Eastern Europe labor and labor coming from South America or Asia is
The Eastern European was highly educated and skilled also highly motivated and many of them came back or coming back home because wages in them countries minus rent in Ireland getting the same .
Mainly they came to earn money for property in own countries or start own business at home
The labor from South America and Asia are less educated and less motivated.Mainly they come to create life in Ireland using social welfare system.Not all for sure.
The problem will be only bigger and if government will reduce social welfare we only will have more criminal activity on streets.
Ireland will facing serious issues with cheap labor and social housing.

Lets wait when quarantine in Australia will be gone and things in USA will get better !


Tens of thousands Irish youngsters will fly from Ireland !

This is very negative stereotyping. Brazilians have come to Ireland to work and by God they do work, you must never have employed anyone from Brazil, the Brazilian work ethic is incredible.

oopsies

I think people will go back slowly to hospitality. Definitely a lot of people have moved on to "better" jobs..

But office work is also pretty soul destroying at the bottom end, which is where those previously in hospitality will find themselves.

mondeoman72

Just this morning someone got a call about a job, not connected to hospitiality, offering 11 euro an hour. 3 years in college, mortgage, kids, the works.
Trying to do the figures now.

Munstergirl854

I don't know if anyone is in my boat but I'm struggling to find work at the moment.

I apply for most local jobs on indeed daily and I've even started applying for kitchen porter roles..they show as having received between 10-100 applicants but I never hear back anywhere.

I'd believe they're struggling to fill roles alright but I still think they're going to hold out for experienced candidates as opposed to people applying because they're just out of work and trying hospitality for the first time, if that makes sense.

I currently get about one interview a week out of all the jobs I apply for...

Just my experience.

Shebean

oopsies wrote: »

I worked in a hotel throughout college and made a fortune! We used to just live off tips and save the rest.

The only reason I wouldnt go back to it now is the hours. I have small babies and couldnt really work residents bars again!

Its not all bad. We all had a ball; was hard work but good craic!

Was this summer months where they didn't need the extra staff off-peak due to low guest numbers? A part time after school or summer job is a different animal.

Shebean

Munstergirl854 wrote: »

I don't know if anyone is in my boat but I'm struggling to find work at the moment.

I apply for most local jobs on indeed daily and I've even started applying for kitchen porter roles..they show as having received between 10-100 applicants but I never hear back anywhere.

I'd believe they're struggling to fill roles alright but I still think they're going to hold out for experienced candidates as opposed to people applying because they're just out of work and trying hospitality for the first time, if that makes sense.

I currently get about one interview a week out of all the jobs I apply for...

Just my experience.

Catering is tough. If you need to do it print off some one page CV's with your phone number and drop them in to a few places. People walk in and out of kitchen jobs. They often don't have the time to post and wait.