Employers struggling to fill positions with hundreds of thousands unemployed

Shebean

It's a lot to do with PUP giving people breathing room to change careers or look for better wages. In the states fast food places are offering decent wages, sick pay, medical insurance and the like. Goes to show they could always afford it.

RandomViewer

punisher5112 wrote: »

I know hotels are bringing in staff from abroad.

Wouldn't surprise me, chances of another lockdown and everything shutting again will make people wary of going through the whole process again, theres also the lack of guaranteed hours ,
Very little in the lines of accomodation because of everywhere been holiday let's so hotels will have to provide accomodation for staff which they'll no doubt deduct plenty for.

Dempo1

punisher5112 wrote: »

I know hotels are bringing in staff from abroad.

It's inevitable really, ironically history repeating itself but for an opposite reason, back in the boom times the work permit programme came in and literally over night hotels were staffed by foreign nationals, in particular Kitchens. I certainly would not be critical of this as I personally worked with some excellent people but there was a down side, wages dropped dramatically, Conditions of employment deteriorated dreadfully, some shocking abuses, accommodation issues, eventually driving most home when they earned enough.

In the mean time Home grown staff left for better pay and less hours and Training came to a stand still, eventually standards dropped and here we are again.

Just got a report from neighbours who booked a night in a hotel in Galway, Fawlty towers not a patch on the experience. Poorly trained staff, no bar food being served, Draught beers ran out around 8pm, I'm afraid this will be the new norm for quite some time.

If these hotels, restaurants, Bars had of done the decent and sensible thing, namely retain staff on wage subsidy schemes at almost no cost, rather than letting them all go to fend for themselves on PUP, they wouldn't be in this mess and I've little sympathy.

The DayDream

So sick of all these articles about hoteliers moaning they can't get staff and blaming the PUP.

I've worked in 3 Irish hotels and I would rather live starving in a tent than do it again. Treat you like muck, pay is a joke, expect you to work all the hours available during the busy periods (which happen to be the times you want off to go socialize yourself) and then give you nothing when it's quiet.

If you're Irish you will probably feel like an outsider in most places as the staff (and lots of management) will often be Eastern European. Often they don't bother speaking English unless speaking directly to you. And the Irish ones that manage in them are so used to foreign workers that they can work like a dog, who will never insist that they give proper breaks or rest times between shifts, or be treated decently, that they treat the Irish staff like dirt, too.

Unless they change how they treat workers and how they pay nowhere near a living wage I hope their struggles get even worse.

What I don’t understand is why the employers are moaning instead of reporting those who refuse to return to their jobs. I hope these shysters get a tough lesson in consequences of actions and have to repay their ill gotten gains.

Dempo1

The DayDream wrote: »

So sick of all these articles about hoteliers moaning they can't get staff and blaming the PUP.

I've worked in 3 Irish hotels and I would rather live starving in a tent than do it again. Treat you like muck, pay is a joke, expect you to work all the hours available during the busy periods (which happen to be the times you want off to go socialize yourself) and then give you nothing when it's quiet.

If you're Irish you will probably feel like an outsider in most places as the staff (and lots of management) will often be Eastern European. Often they don't bother speaking English unless speaking directly to you. And the Irish ones that manage in them are so used to foreign workers that they can work like a dog, who will never insist that they give proper breaks or rest times between shifts, or be treated decently, that they treat the Irish staff like dirt, too.

Unless they change how they treat workers and how they pay nowhere near a living wage I hope their struggles get even worse.

I hear you, spent 30 years in the Game, Chef, Restaurant owner, GM Hotels, even teached and saw the industry go down hill a long time ago, and yes I agree re blaming PUP, has I've stated if these concerned employers have a damn about their staff, they would have retained them on wage subsidy schemes but no, they took less than a second to lay everyone off and fend for themselves.

Just a final point, Sky News reported last week that the UK has serious hospitality staff shortages, the only difference, employers there can't blame PUP

Dempo1

[Deleted User] wrote: »

What I don’t understand is why the employers are moaning instead of reporting those who refuse to return to their jobs. I hope these shysters get a tough lesson in consequences of actions and have to repay their ill gotten gains.

Explain what you mean Shysters and I'll gotten gains? Are you referring to employees who lost their Jobs and forced onto PUP? If so, shameful nonsense.

The reason why employers Not reporting is quite simple, it's utter nonsense. To date a tiny amount of reports made and for the record, the DEASP themselves have said little or no evidence people refusing to return to work, even the normally right wing Leaky Leo admits no anecdotal evidence available. I also direct you to the UK who never had a PUP style support and they are struggling to find staff.

Kewreeuss

Gradius wrote: »

Work from home is a very real prospect that potentially allows some to escape the work/cost trap, but beware the ramifications of that too; if a company realised that they no longer need people in a building, then how long until they realise they don't need people in this country at all?

If they want to continue to do business in this country they need to keep their employees in this country, or else set themselves up as an employer in all the countries where they have staff wfh and pay the taxes and social security there. That’s if they want to do business here. Otherwise move out altogether.

enricoh

punisher5112 wrote: »

I know hotels are bringing in staff from abroad.

Read an article the other day of a resteraunteur in Sligo paying people e30 to attend interviews! We're a welfare state nowadays, what could possibly go wrong!

martingriff

Simple way to stop this. If you were working and then put on the PUP but still an employe if you refuse to go back to work (unless a good reason such as underlying health and not got second jab), then taken off the PUP and on to dole. Its not possible put you should be made pay back the PUP as you effect quite your job as you had no idea of going back when your job opened up

Dempo1

martingriff wrote: »

Simple way to stop this. If you were working and then put on the PUP but still an employe if you refuse to go back to work (unless a good reason such as underlying health and not got second jab), then taken off the PUP and on to dole. Its not possible put you should be made pay back the PUP as you effect quite your job as you had no idea of going back when your job opened up

I think you might be missing the point, this is actually the current policy re PUP and again, there is ZERO evidence of anything needs to have a stop put to it. Employers moaning like the boy who cried wolf does not equate to the recruitment problem being anything to do with PUP, the two most vocal industries, Hospitality have lost staff to other career's and as explained, if they were so concerned about retaining staff, they had the option of wage subsidy schemes at practically no cost to them, instead, they dropped staff like bad habits and now crying because they disappeared.

Personal care/Salons next, this I'll grant you might be a concern and an enormous black market has been created due to Salon closures, I've absolutely no doubt there are lots who we're in this industry thinking they are much better off doing private work. Unfortunately it's very difficult to investigate a black market.

jimmycrackcorm

There's an upside, Thanks to PUP having people refusing to go back to work, my youngling who finished school last year, just got offered a job.

Dempo1

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

There's an upside, Thanks to PUP having people refusing to go back to work, my youngling who finished school last year, just got offered a job.

A bit of tongue and cheek in your post? But delighted for her but again, few if any refusing to return to work.

Shauna677

punisher5112 wrote: »

I know hotels are bringing in staff from abroad.

If they have any sense they will stay away.

Shauna677

The DayDream wrote: »

So sick of all these articles about hoteliers moaning they can't get staff and blaming the PUP.

I've worked in 3 Irish hotels and I would rather live starving in a tent than do it again. Treat you like muck, pay is a joke, expect you to work all the hours available during the busy periods (which happen to be the times you want off to go socialize yourself) and then give you nothing when it's quiet.

If you're Irish you will probably feel like an outsider in most places as the staff (and lots of management) will often be Eastern European. Often they don't bother speaking English unless speaking directly to you. And the Irish ones that manage in them are so used to foreign workers that they can work like a dog, who will never insist that they give proper breaks or rest times between shifts, or be treated decently, that they treat the Irish staff like dirt, too.

Unless they change how they treat workers and how they pay nowhere near a living wage I hope their struggles get even worse.

It is appalling how badly the staff were treated, working for a pittance with no hope of ever getting on the housing ladder, no work benefits like personal pensions or medical insurance. Do employers not grasp that all people deserve a proper living wage, they were not born to be slaves and these employees have decided enough is enough and many gone off to look for better careers and good luck to them all. Covid has shown us how unequal we were as a country and things are going to have to change in one way or another as we go forward.

ineedeuro

Shauna677 wrote: »

It is appalling how badly the staff were treated, working for a pittance with no hope of ever getting on the housing ladder, no work benefits like personal pensions or medical insurance. Do employers not grasp that all people deserve a proper living wage, they were not born to be slaves and these employees have decided enough is enough and many gone off to look for better careers and good luck to them all. Covid has shown us how unequal we were as a country and things are going to have to change in one way or another as we go forward.

It's great to be back in 2002

What could go wrong

ZX7R

I don't think people realise, there has been a mass exodus of foreign labour in the Irish market since last March, I am irish living in Poland and the amount of polish that have returned is amazing.
From listening to friends, family and old work contacts, construction and security have also been impacted by a loss of labour force since last March.

Shauna677

Dempo1 wrote: »

I


Personal care/Salons next, this I'll grant you might be a concern and an enormous black market has been created due to Salon closures, I've absolutely no doubt there are lots who we're in this industry thinking they are much better off doing private work. Unfortunately it's very difficult to investigate a black market.

I think you might be right there, I saw very few people with messy hair over the five months since hair salons closed in December. They were obviously getting it professionally done somewhere and it sure wasn't in the salons.

Shauna677

ineedeuro wrote: »

It's great to be back in 2002

What could go wrong

Many of these people can't even afford to rent their own places, is it any wonder there is a mass exodus of foreign workers leaving the country.

Up here in a hotel in Inishowen. Very obvious that new untrained staff have had to brought in last minute for probably the same reason. Things are a mess. No organisation.

I feel very sorry for the young ones having to learn on the job to a very large volume of customers, that's for sure.

I have a friend in the construction industry reporting the same.

ulster

jimmycrackcorm wrote: »

There's an upside, Thanks to PUP having people refusing to go back to work, my youngling who finished school last year, just got offered a job.

As a jedi padawan.....

Del2005

Kewreeuss wrote: »

If they want to continue to do business in this country they need to keep their employees in this country, or else set themselves up as an employer in all the countries where they have staff wfh and pay the taxes and social security there. That’s if they want to do business here. Otherwise move out altogether.

They need 1 employee to stay in the country to trade here. So they can move the remaining jobs to countries that are paid way less and still trade here with a single employee, there's plenty of companies in the IFSC already trading this way.

Pauliedragon

It's amazing how all these hospitality operators are saying they can't get staff yet I've over 20 years worth of experience and can't even get an interview after applying day after day let alone a job. They can't be that stuck.

Shoelaces

Worked my last shift in a hotel restaurant on the 23rd. Have worked in hospitality for 9 years. Christmas this year sealed it. Insane hours for little pay in a place that was breaching Covid regulations so they could jam as many in as possible. No problem enforcing the 90 minute rule to ensure maximum table turnover. Im going back to college and I hope that industry burns to the ground.

Wildly Boaring

ZX7R wrote: »

I don't think people realise, there has been a mass exodus of foreign labour in the Irish market since last March, I am irish living in Poland and the amount of polish that have returned is amazing.
From listening to friends, family and old work contacts, construction and security have also been impacted by a loss of labour force since last March.

The main steel fixers and shutters are now Romanian on a lot of Dublin sites.
I spoke to 2 guys in the last month who would enerally have 50 to 100 guys here.
Neither can get more guys to come to Ireland. It's too obvious that we'll just shut construction if covid is an issue again.
Only country in Europe to do so in 2021.

Edit. Like the UK we are forcing hem all into fame self employment with no rights. This can't continue.

Shauna677

Shoelaces wrote: »

Worked my last shift in a hotel restaurant on the 23rd. Have worked in hospitality for 9 years. Christmas this year sealed it. Insane hours for little pay in a place that was breaching Covid regulations so they could jam as many in as possible. No problem enforcing the 90 minute rule to ensure maximum table turnover. Im going back to college and I hope that industry burns to the ground.

The very best of luck to you on your return to education. Onwards and upwards!

enricoh

ZX7R wrote: »

I don't think people realise, there has been a mass exodus of foreign labour in the Irish market since last March, I am irish living in Poland and the amount of polish that have returned is amazing.
From listening to friends, family and old work contacts, construction and security have also been impacted by a loss of labour force since last March.

I get some work done from time to time in a big engineering workshop they'd have 50+ lads there and on sites. The gaffer was stuck for staff and was saying the majority of his good polish lads had gone home in the last year or two.

Poland had picked up and they were sick of paying the increased rents here. It'd be e1500 a month on average now for a 3 bed semi where I am. He said the useless ones had packed in but were staying here for the dole and housing. It's easy to tell him to pay more but he's competing against northern crowds with much lower overheads for jobs.

punisher5112

It's simply a cost savings tactic, cheapest labour they can find and mad hours.

Guy I know is renting out a room, guy only arrived in the country, he has siblings here already and he is doing the crappy jobs in the kitchen for buttons, he is here around 2 weeks, they are calling him in early, staying late, days off getting called in etc.... Now I can't say if he is happy or not going this or is happy to get the extra for more money but by God he is working very hard for buttons.


This I know has gone on years but it's a worrying trend across a lot of sectors where these businesses and business owners are really really doing unbelievably well and making an absolute killing.


If I were young id be very worried especially now more so with these types willing to work for so little but also the housing nonsense and how it's going to be near impossible to get a mortgage.

We got approved in 2019 and I can say I know for a fact if we had of been held up any longer we wouldn't have a hope in hell of getting on it now.....

Plenty of exploitative employers out there. I always think that something changed about us as a nation in the first Celtic Tiger where people including employers went money mad in this country, even at the expense of labour fairness.

punisher5112

enricoh wrote: »

I get some work done from time to time in a big engineering workshop they'd have 50+ lads there and on sites. The gaffer was stuck for staff and was saying the majority of his good polish lads had gone home in the last year or two.

Poland had picked up and they were sick of paying the increased rents here. It'd be e1500 a month on average now for a 3 bed semi where I am. He said the useless ones had packed in but were staying here for the dole and housing. It's easy to tell him to pay more but he's competing against northern crowds with much lower overheads for jobs.

The smart ones rent in multiple occupancy dwellings or rent a room etc....

This is another issue, some will never go back, or will never work again and would be more then happy to stay on the dole or disability etc as it's still better off then what they'd be on at home....


I've absolutely no issues whatsoever people coming to work, sure the Irish have had no choice but to leave too to get work so it works both ways but the big problems I have is those not willing to work.