Gardai conspire to ignore thousands of reported crimes

Flinty997

No one who has tried to report crime to the Garda, needs any convincing of these reports.

Its a tough, under resourced job we get it. Its vital role in our society. But it does itself no favor's.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119293040#Comment_119293040

I have to say that I think anyone finding this shocking must have had a pretty sheltered life. I rang to report a car being set alight on a public road and they were just interested in my details. They never sent anyone out (owner or good Samaritan neighbour got to it to put it out before I could get to it. I reported someone hanging around my street with a machete, they never sent anyone. I pointed out a brawl with a couple of dozen people just up the street and the 2 Gardai followed me for about 5 minutes on my way home instead. When they do come they still try to minimise. My dad rang about teens lobbing rocks from the railway line, they arrived down that time, first question was "Name and address?"... ehh, yous just got here, don't remember no? Spent 5 minutes taking our details and fucked off. Took another few weeks til one of the scrotes was caught and given a hiding by a neighbour before it stopped despite hundreds of calls between ourselves and a couple of dozen other neighbours. Another time someone tried to break into the house, my mother was awake and rang the Gardai, they came down and didn't even go into the garden where the person was. 5 minutes later a 70 year old neighbour ran out of her house in a panic because someone was in it. My best friend had the **** kicked out of him for no reason by a group who killed someone a month or two later, they did everything to delay and kept lying saying there was no CCTV in the area. They do not care.

The one semi-decent experience was after we were burgled they bothered to send down a detective. Obviously couldn't do much by the time they arrived but the detective was friendly with my ould lad and ahem, let slip who was doing it so justice was at least served and aided by the Gardai in that case.

I Blame Sheeple

Underfunded and under resourced feels like excuses to be lazy nowadays whereas in the past it was a genuine issue for the Gardai.

The general feeling I get from the Gardai as an organization is that the beat copper you see in uniform responding to calls in the car or out on foot in the estate (hahahahaha) are trained to a minimally poor standard and then sent out, unequipped, to handle the madness of Dublin. Whereas the only real time, effort and training goes into the specialist unit Gardai and because these lads are constantly playing catch-up, we see very little actual effective policing. All the effective ones were pushed into niche or specialist units because they were capable of learning and doing more. All the thick goons with no interest in ambition or applying themselves are left to respond to your 999 calls... Hence why none of them ever seem to give a crap.

Esel

^ The victim was not his wife.

Topgear on Dave

https://www.breakingnews.ie/ireland/evil-garda-jailed-for-coercive-control-of-terminally-ill-partner-1341527.html

"Detective Inspector Cormac Brennan told Shane Costello SC, prosecuting, that an investigation was launched against the man after he made a complaint about one of the woman’s relatives and handed in his own phone to allow for it to be examined in the context of that allegation.

Officers became concerned that there was an abusive relationship between himself and the victim, and they arranged to meet the woman. She later made a statement of complaint, which ran to 280 pages."

It sounds like the guards seem to have become suspicious and contacted her to find out what was going on.

lukonmaki

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119390840#Comment_119390840

I can't for the life of me get my head around the lack of reaction to this case. Apologies if it's been covered elsewhere on boards but the reaction here seems muted. In an era where nothing is truly shocking anymore, the levels of depravity in this case are truly jaw dropping. As for Martin Nolan... just another one to add to his greatest hits collection!

JP Liz V1

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119391315#Comment_119391315

Not that it matters but the sentence was too short and he deserves no pension

Potential-Monke

I was going to say you'll find no one to defend that former Garda, but the articles all say some people still did, so it would have been a false statement. He was a bad apple, caught by good apples through his own fault. Not sure where you're getting he had a colleague to help him, just seems like he managed to divert the call to him, but I did also read the below article which gives a little more (but still not enough) detail about that part. Seems like AGS acted as soon as they became aware (via his phone) and reached out to the victim to initiate the process.

That's the thing about these types, you don't expect it and they do a great job of hiding it. I'd like to know who, in court, still backed him. They should also be named and shamed imo. Sentence is far too light, but I expect no less from that useless prick Nolan. The sooner he steps down, the better. I actually can't see how he came to that conviction. Moody probably won't have a great time in prison, and good, he's pure scum.

https://www.dublinlive.ie/news/dublin-news/survivor-torture-former-garda-speaks-24606475

Fandymo

https://extra.ie/2022/08/25/news/irish-news/gardai-services-sex-worker

Those “few” bad apples sure are busy.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119523377#Comment_119523377

I look forward to the study that asks drug dealers for their opinions of the cops and then treats their claims like gods gospel.

Fandymo

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524889#Comment_119524889

It was an academic study. What would be the point of the anonymous ladies making stuff up about anonymous Gardai? If anything it would put more of a target on them for our angelic Gardai.

Muahahaha

It should come as no surprise that some Gardai are trying to use sex workers for free sex, this goes on in police forces the world over and it wouldnt take long to find loads of other examples of it, from memory alone cops in Sydney were caught actually running a prostitution ring. Its more to do with how the force deals with it, I cant ever remember a Garda getting done for coercing a sex worker into free sex but you'd be pretty naive to believe that it isnt going on and now this study confirms as much.

Dyr

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119525161#Comment_119525161

"It was an academic study. What would be the point of the anonymous drug dealers making stuff up about anonymous Gardai? If anything it would put more of a target on them for our angelic Gardai."

Also, why are you calling prostitutes ladies? Are all prostitutes ladies? Some of them are men. Seems bigoted.

Fandymo

All of the interviewees in the academic study were female brainiac.

Overheal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119524889#Comment_119524889

“The cops can’t lie to me look at uh uh uh the drug dealers yeah that will do”

Potential-Monke

Muahahaha hit it on the head. Happens everywhere. Humans being human.

GeneHunt

The 999 Cancelled calls was on Morning Ireland this morning, "public" meeting with the Policing Authority is on later today

https://rteradioapp.page.link/bWbzeRE78NnDSMr6A

link to the public meeting (starts at 3pm)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z2oNAunfJMA

GeneHunt

RTE have an article in relation to the 999 cancelled calls.

https://www.rte.ie/news/2022/0929/1326168-999-calls/

xxxxxxl

Did I hear people not trained to deal with calls ? Sweet jebus.

Potential-Monke

Not uncommon. Out of Templemore you come, and you could be thrown into the "comms room" (prior to the regional centres, which I believe are still not fully operational, but a call taker (or more) is still required at the responding station) and work away. Well, that's how it was with me anyway. There is no specific training for these kinds of calls, because you can't cover everything, and inevitably you'll get this kind of service. You get far better call handling training if you work for any of the customer care centres in Ireland, but it (wasn't) a priority in AGS when I was there. I think I did maybe.... 3 hours of call taking training in Templemore, and they were very specific "incidents".

The report makes me believe that there should be civilian call takers in every station, trained by the same people to the same level. Imo, it's too much to be asking a serving Garda to do this job on top of everything else (which also doubled a chance to do files), so that's why they started introducing the regional centres. Set staff working set patterns all the time. Intention was civilian call takers, Garda dispatchers, and Garda call takers in the smaller stations, the idea being that all calls would route to the regional comms centre. Not sure if it's up and running properly yet.

Oversight seems to be the big problem here, with the report stating it just didn't exist really. And it's not an easy job, you would be jumping from reports of thefts from shops, assaults with people screaming down the phone, domestics with screaming, drunk pr1cks, time wasters, suicidal callers, children in trouble... everything and anything, and it's just not possible to be properly trained to deal with the all.

Some of the issues though are standard practice, like not taking contact details. That's a stupid thing to do. I've done it, but usually when it's the 5th+ person reporting the same incident, already have 4 witnesses/reports, and if there are that many ringing in, then the lines are probably hopping. Throw on top of that, the call taker was usually in charge of the radios also, and often both would be going at the same time, potentially colleagues roaring for assistance and you have a suicidal caller on the line... But the basic stuff should be done right. No excuse there.

The Garda has to do so much, these regional centres were supposed to alleviate some of these issues. But like most things Government run, it's run by idiots.

Real Donald Trump

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682811#Comment_119682811

You should do an AMA on here, would love to hear about your experience in the guards.

xxxxxxl

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682811#Comment_119682811

Oh don't get me wrong not blaming individual Garda. I have worked on phone lines there was plenty of training in call handling logging all that. Seem like cost cutting does it not ?

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682826#Comment_119682826

I'd be too afraid I'd say something to identify myself! Long story short: insufficient training, insufficient uniform, insufficient vehicles, insufficient support, insufficient management, insufficient public support, insufficient wages, insufficient court and penal systems... quite insufficient!

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682847#Comment_119682847

Isn't everything cost cutting though? Pretty sure that's part of the reason body cams are not a runner yet, other issues aside, knowing AGS, they'll pick the cheapest supplier that charges the most. I reckon it comes from the old idea that only a Garda can do a Gardas job, which is technically correct, but they were never great at the customer service. And it does kinda annoy me to call Garda call taking customer service, they're not customers. AGS isn't a company trying to ensure they get 5* Yelp/TripAdvisor reviews. But I do agree it needs to improve, and it will only improve by making specific call takers and training them as good as you can. Was always madness to me to have a Garda taking the calls, but civillians, quite rightly, may not be able to ask the right questions, even a junior Garda may not ask the right questions, because a lot of it comes from experience.

I wouldn't fancy being in charge of these changes though. It's a massive task, no doubt will be under funded, and will initially look good on the outside but will probably have the same issues behind it all. Mention of CAD being an aging system... lol!

GeneHunt

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682811#Comment_119682811

The finger keeps getting pointed at "training", however I'll quote a section from Derek Penman's report, training is mentioned on page 13.

16. Training in call taking and dispatch has been extensive, and members should have understood the

limited circumstances when incidents could be cancelled. There is nothing to indicate that training

was inadequate or has been a factor in cancelled incidents or other workarounds by members.

thegame983

I used to work in a call center. When it came clear that we would not be able to hit our daily quota we would just hang up on people. All to maintain our stats and the illusion that we were doing our job.

This was by instruction by management.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682966#Comment_119682966

I'm only giving my experience of it. But at the same time I recognise that certain actions were taken which have no excuse. "Extensive" is a management term and means nothing without evidence of the exact extensive training every member who may be answering the phones had received (it doesn't exist because it didn't happen). The most extensive training was given to the selected few who would be manning the regional centres full time, but when I was last there it wasn't rolled out fully and didn't look to be done anytime soon. I spoke to an ex-colleague about 2 years ago who said civilians were just after getting hired so still wasn't set up properly, ie: not all calls routing to the regional centres yet.

From memory, I can't recall these "limited circumstances" he mentioned, but as the system is CAD based, a call can be easily removed. I'd imagine there's a paper trail, which leads us back to poor oversight. Not saying oversight would have caught everything, but it would definitely have prevented it from getting this big. And don't get me wrong, reports were being pulled, but there were no extra hands to do it. It was usually down to the working sergeant to read and report, or possibly higher depending on the station, but it's another report, on top of all the other reports/files/cases/etc. It didn't have priority before now, and basically due to a lack of manpower. All my opinion of course, based on my own experience. And now about 6 years out of date, but AGS are not exactly the quickest at change.

And having encountered all the Gardai ye have encountered over the years, can you picture the same ones answering the calls. Because at some point they would be. A massive force that can't all be trained to the same level. Might be fantastic at policing, but terrible on the phone. It happens. But no excuses for the ones who deliberately and wrongly cancelled calls. I'll always say that.

Augme

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119682891#Comment_119682891

Insufficient ability to sack incompetent Garda should be on that list too.

Muahahaha

Theres some serious shortcomings in that report

Shortcomings in call handling where there was potential for serious harm is illustrated in an incident where the call taker did not ask a caller for contact details and ended the call, even though the caller was at that time witnessing what they believed to be a serious sexual crime in progress. As the caller was not kept on the line, they could not provide potentially valuable information to the Gardaí attending. Nor could they be re-contacted to provide further information when the Gardaí attending the call were unable to locate the scene of the potential crime or victim. In this incident, it is feasible that a serious crime was committed, and the victim of a serious sexual crime never came forward to make a report. Although this incident was properly identified during the CAD Review, there was no possibility of identifying a victim and therefore no possibility to determine whether a crime occurred or if there was any injury to a victim.

Another example included a call from a confidential third-party reporting service that was relaying real-time information from a child reporting an ongoing serious sexual assault on their parent. The child also disclosed that they were also the victim of sexual abuse by the same perpetrator and provided some information about this person. The third-party reporting service provided contact details and a location for the child and Gardaí were dispatched immediately. However, it transpired that the address was incorrect and there was no trace of the child, their parent nor any evidence of a crime. As the call from the confidential third-party reporting service had not been kept open and the third-party call taker was not asked to keep the child on the line to maintain dialogue until Gardaí attended, there was no opportunity to re-establish contact or check the information initially provided.

As the Gardaí attending were unable to identify the child or their parent at the address given, the incident was cancelled, and no further investigation was initiated. Notwithstanding that this may have been a bogus call, the seriousness of the allegations and potential vulnerability of the child and parent should have ensured this CAD Incident was not cancelled, but instead passed for urgent investigation. Although this incident was properly identified during the CAD Review, it was not possible to identify a victim, their parent or possible perpetrator and therefore impossible to determine whether a crime occurred or if there was any injury to the victim(s).

Its unbelievable really, rape and child sexual abuse reported on 999 calls yet Gardai lost all contact with the victims and consequently couldnt investigate what are very serious crimes. If the calls do stack up (and there is no reason to believe they do not) then that means there are rapists and paedos in our society who were reported to Gardai by a 999 call but are now still free to continue on perpetrating more crimes on to others.

Potential-Monke

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/119683593#Comment_119683593

Completely agree