Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951914#Comment_120951914

We definitely shouldn't be in that position - but it would look like that's the plan, since that's where he's played in his preseason games (and to be fair, did alright there). I guess there's literally no other option though. The kids are injured, and neither Mac Allister or Szobo are any better suited to it, and at least Jones is familiar with the system... tbh if they get Lavia over the line before then, would nearly just throw him straight in.

Electric Nitwit

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120950551#Comment_120950551

Not in the squad

https://twitter.com/SkySportsNews/status/1688878699452502017?t=OSzUZg51xQ8ceBEmFpzqOA&s=19

hynesie08

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952302#Comment_120952302

Didn't travel with them either, looks like it's making progress.

Tusky

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952088#Comment_120952088

Crazy that we've allowed this to happen. Very poor planning.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952319#Comment_120952319

Incredibly. Like, even if Fab had stayed, we'd still have been very weak at DM... it was the spot I think a lot of us had as first choice to be sorted. It's great to have those other two very good midfielders brought in, but here we are on the doorstep of the season and our weakest position last year is even weaker than it was.

dogbert27

If Barcelona don't register Gudongen by Saturday he's free to leave.

Maybe that's part of the master plan, another cheap midfielder! 😂

giveitholly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120951892#Comment_120951892

Hope not,need another defensive midfielder and centre half. With the way the Lavia transfer has dragged out its hard to see another two players coming in unfortunately

Talisman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952075#Comment_120952075

A cryptic tweet from Lavia ...

https://twitter.com/RomeoLavia/status/1688869812921896961

McFly85

Allowing Fabinho to head off before the Lavia deal was concluded basically removed any leverage we might have had.

Southampton are well aware that all of our eggs are in this basket so it’s no surprise they’ve been holding out for more money.

Ottoman_1000

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952319#Comment_120952319

The main problem has been the Hendo and Fab situations, it has given us an absolute zero bargaining position. After we got the MaCallister and Sobo deals across the line, there's a couple of links and soundbites from the club claiming that they may sign another midfielder if one became available at the right price, but Klopp was happy with his lot, it was strongly rumoured that Lavia was that midfielder at the time. I reckon the clubs position was put out these soundbites, unsettle the player and try force a deal from Southampton, if Liverpool weren't happy with the deal after that, they're in a position to walk away and focus on another target. Obviously that position of power in no longer the situation and Southampton are giving Liverpool the 2 fingers for the earlier mind games...

I think the people that were delighted to see Fab and Hendo gone as they needed to be replaced anyway failed to see the position this was going to put us in. I also wanted both players replaced but not like this, this Lavia deal could now set the precedent for any deals required over the next few windows. Teams now know Liverpool are desperate and will pay up eventually, this is what has happened UTD every window for the past 8/9 years, the difference been they can afford the inflated prices. Our transfer committee has always worked best when its done on their terms, we rarely see them chasing targets and its quite clear they're not very good at that strategy.

dougal

Southampton pay City 20 percent of the base fee so the 50 million is basically 40 million to Southampton and 10 to City.

I'd say the main argument is on having a lower base fee and realistic add ons to ensure that most of fee is going to Southampton in add ons.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952672#Comment_120952672

It has put the club in a weird position alright - though I don't really see it impacting future windows. Liverpool are desperate right now because of the specific situation the club is in, with the season coming soon and 2 midfielders leaving late unexpectedly. Them being willing to pay up under these specific circumstances does not necessarily translate to "Teams now know Liverpool are desperate and will pay up eventually".

In this case Lavia is clearly by far and away their first choice (as has been the case on a few rare occasions in the past like VVD), but for future moves I'd expect the club to go back to the usual policy of moving on if the price isn't right.

BorneTobyWilde

Southampton to Liverpool on twitter '' DM sent ''

Talisman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952672#Comment_120952672

Southampton made it clear that they won't be messed with on transfers. The Van Dijk transfer should have made that clear to Liverpool and if that was too long ago for those at the club to remember they should have paid attention to what happened with Newcastle's efforts to land Livramento this summer.

The pursuit of Lavia followed the same playbook as Van Dijk, get in the player's head and eliminate the competition. Southampton had their £50M valuation for the player and gave an indication that they would be willing to take £45M if the deal was structured to their liking, that was over 3 weeks ago. That was the opportunity to get a deal on the player.

Liverpool misread the situation and made the initial £37M offer. The second offer was the opportunity to correct the error of judgement but instead of doing so they compounded the issue by offering £38M plus add-ons. Unsurprisingly that got shot down and then the media campaign about Liverpool looking at alternative options rolled into action. The £45M offer was rejected, possibly because of the arsing around that went on in the lead up to the previous offers.

These negotiations by Liverpool have been amateur hour. Since the transfer wizard vacated his position last summer I don't think the club has negotiated a 'deal'. Nunez, Gakpo, Mac Allister and Szoboszlai have all been signed for release clause valuations or for fees with add-on clauses that met their club's valuation.

awec

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120953054#Comment_120953054

Yea spot on IMO.

Yea, Henderson and Fabinho have weakened our position, but that makes it all the more reason to not mess about with these transfers and end up having your bluff called every single time.

This deal could have been sorted weeks ago and we could be on to the next target.

Talisman

Liverpool might be keen to get a deal agreed today because Fluminese's Copa Libertadores fixture is tonight. If they go through then their asking price for Andre Trinade will increase and Southampton could seize the opportunity to value Lavia at £60M tomorrow.

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120952672#Comment_120952672

This is a direct consequence of poor planning and not reinforcing obvious squad weaknesses over the past few seasons, the club is now reaping what it sowed; last seasons shitshow, missing out on CL football and now getting fleeced in the transfer market as everyone and his dog knows we're desperate; Southampton are dead right to squeeze every last penny out of Liverpool that they can get.

Widdensushi

Some moaning going on here, you need to calm down, enjoy the soccer or stop following it if it's constantly causing ye so much anxiety.

Fitz*

There has been a few suggestions that Liverpool have asked Southampton a couple times for their valuation of Lavia, which has fallen on deaf ears. Instead the new bids are just being rejected.

Even though the player meets a couple of needs, at this stage I'd nearly just prefer they walked away and brought in Doucoure or someone. There are not many other clubs who will come in for Lavia this late. Arsenal brought in Rice. Chelsea look to have Caicedo now.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120953285#Comment_120953285

sure the moaning and anxiety's half the point 😅

happyoutscan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120953224#Comment_120953224

How exactly are we getting fleeced?

happyoutscan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120953318#Comment_120953318

Wouldn't be surprised if the hold up is due to Southampton wanting a percentage of any future selling on of Lavia.

mormank

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120953443#Comment_120953443

Sure it was the moaning and anxiety that attracted me to Liverpool in the first place!! 😆 Otherwise I'd have been a Utd fan initially and a city fan now.

JPup

Southampton fans are very positive about Lavia.

I remember when we signed Vin Dijk I was a bit nervous of the fee. Went on the main Southampton Forum and they were calling him world class, best defender ever to play for the club and were in no doubt he would do brilliantly for Liverpool.

It's by no means to same situation with Lavia, but the consensus is that he is the best player at the club and potentially world class. None of them seem regard £50 million as a huge fee given his ability and potential. So fingers crossed.

I get the impression that Liverpool would rather be signing another midfielder about the same age as MacAllister and Sobo. Maybe we bring Andre in from Brazil in January as well which would round off the midfield better in terms of age profile.

Talisman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120953546#Comment_120953546

WhoScored ranked him along side Caicedo and Bellingham for winning possession.

https://twitter.com/WhoScored/status/1664542868910768129

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120953445#Comment_120953445

If we pay well over 40 million for Lavia, as it looks like we will have to in order to get him, that's getting fleeced. He's not worth that much, but, Southampton have the power in this situation, so can demand more as they don't need to sell, but, know how desperate Liverpool are, plus looks like we have no alternative lined up. If we already had a defensive midfielder at the club ( even Fabinho) our need wouldn't be quite as bad and we could walk away, Southampton know Liverpool can't really walk away at this stage. Even if we sign Lavia, it's asking an awful lot of a young inexperienced player to come straight into the team, not knowing the system or players, with no real alternative for his position.

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120953445#Comment_120953445

Opposition fans are saying this. It covers all angles. If you get him you overpaid, if you're don't you are too tight.

This is nearly always the case with big signings. Only time will tell I guess. If he's a decent player it'll be a good price. He's very young.

giveitholly

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120953791#Comment_120953791

How much do you think Lavia is worth?

happyoutscan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120953791#Comment_120953791

I'm interested in how/why you think he is not worth 40 or 50 million? How have you come to this opinion?

As for Fabinho, we got 40 million for a DM who lost his athleticism (it dropped off a cliff) as well as his anticipation. He'd offer nothing at the level we want a DM to be at.

40 million. For Fab. Mind-boggling but thank you SA.

What do you think Lavia is worth?

According to Klopp, Curtis Jones is going to be/or is capable of being a DM. So we seem to have a DM. Not sure exactly how that will work but at least Jones can move on the pitch.

noodler

Again, maybe my own ignorance but didn't hear much about Lavia during the season so hard to reconcile a 50m fee for him other than by accepting our relative desperation.

I get 40m for Fab was great business if you can replace but with Keita, Milner, Ox and Carvalho out the door, it seemed more sensible to add a midfielder to the pot rather than sell one and buy one.

I definitely didn't want Hendo to leave.

Fitz*

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120953898#Comment_120953898

Transfermarkt have him at €32m.

FWIW, they valued Henderson at €10m and he moved for €14m. Fabinho was rated at €42m and moved for €46.7m.

And then Szoboszlai was rated at €50m (with a release clause of €70m) and MacAllister was rated at €65m (but that that release clause for €42m)

The release clause bit was a trend for our early summer business. Both were fairly easy deals to do. Pay the clause or feck off, basically. Without the release clause, Jorg has been left embarrassed.

happyoutscan

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954127#Comment_120954127

I don't know the first thing about Lavia.

I'd agree on Henderson though, would have had no problem with him staying.

Not sure if losing the deadwood impacts us this year. We are better off giving minutes to Bajcetic and Jones over Keita and Ox. Jury out on Carvalho but I don't think we'll be seeing him again.

Talisman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954001#Comment_120954001

Jones improved at the end of last season because he had the opportunity to play in the space where Robertson previously operated on the left.

Klopp will try to fit a square peg in a round hole to prove a point. Curtis Jones is not a #6. If Klopp thinks he can be transformed into a DM player then there are going to be a lot of lost games during the bedding in period.

Maybe Klopp envisions Jones as his new Milner.

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954001#Comment_120954001

He has only played 30 senior games, so very inexperienced, we are buying potential really. It's true that we got a fantastic price for Fabinho, but, the excess we got for him will be wiped out by the excess we pay for Lavia. If he works out we might look back on him as a bargain in years to come ( if he signs) but, paying close to 50 million for a guy with just one senior season is a huge risk.

As for Jones playing as a defensive midfielder, he doesn't strike me as a natural fit for the role, but, Klopp knows best

JPup

Repeating myself, but the fact that Southampton fans don’t regard £50m as being a great price for him is telling. Their view is if Rice and Caicedo are worth £100m then Lavia is worth at least £50m. Time will tell, but that’s encouraging to me.

Widdensushi

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954272#Comment_120954272

Not sure how you can say klopp knows best for one point while questioning the other, homegrown tax is a major factor in the lavia transfer, it distorts the value, basically gaining a squad player when numbers are tight.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954418#Comment_120954418

That homegrown angle could be a big one alright, and may also be disrupting the CB signing too. If they need to leave Lavia and go elsewhere for a DM, then there might not be a spot for a foreign CB. If we get Lavia, we've a bit more breathing room there. Might also be what's holding up Nat's move to Leeds, as one of our homegrown CBs.

theoneeyedman

50 million is the new 20 million, thanks to our Arabian friends....

brevity

I think Jones would be awful as a DM.

martyos121

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954161#Comment_120954161

The funny thing about Jorg is that his trademark was supposedly finding great value in the middle to lower range of the transfer market. Oh, and his wonderful sense of humour too, obviously.

Granted, Alexis was a great value signing at that price but if Jorg is so good at identifying young, overlooked talent available at reasonable fees, why haven’t we even been linked with one such player, let alone sign one? Seems a bit pointless bringing him in only to activate two release clauses and struggle massively to negotiate a fee for a third player.

I totally get that we can’t sign a £10m valued player for the same fee as a club like Wolfsburg for example because of the PL and big PL club taxes that are always factored in, but surely we can be doing more business at that end of the market? Julian Weigl, for example. Signed by Monchengladbach this summer for around £6m (and that was a release clause that any club could’ve triggered). Is he as good as Fabinho in his prime? Obviously not, but I’m pretty certain he’s better than last season’s version. Plenty of experience in the Champions League as well with Benfica and Dortmund, would’ve been a nice little bargain even if he was only cover for another new DM.

It’s only one example, and a needless rant, but there was smart business to be done this summer and given the mass exodus in our midfield, I feel we really should’ve been keeping an eye on that type of deal to round out the squad a bit.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954534#Comment_120954534

Unfortunately we don't currently have any fit options that wouldn't be.

SuperTortoise

Jesus you lot got my hopes up, 2 new pages since this afternoon, we must have signed someone said i...

GiftofGab

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954534#Comment_120954534

Agree but didn't he also play the U21 championship earlier in the summer at a DM role?? Well that's what I read, didn't see any of the games myself. If that's the case at least he has some experience there.

But can't see him excelling at DM. End of last season was the only time he's put in a consistent performance for us and that was playing further up the left flank.

Girly Gal

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954418#Comment_120954418

Klopp has full control over the squad, working closely with the players so he should know best if Jones can play DM role, I'm only going on what I've seen of him and Jones has never really struck me as being good defensively. While klopp has an input into our transfer dealings, he doesn't have full control over transfers or the transfer negotiations; the club's approach to the Lavia transfer/ getting in a DM hasn't been great, that's what I was criticising not Klopp, not sure how you came to that conclusion, in any case Klopp is not above criticism or questioning.

Talisman

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120954901#Comment_120954901

At the Euro U21 tournament England played a 4-4-2 system mostly. Jones was in the middle with Angel Gomes and they both went box to box but Gomes was the more defensive minded of the two. England played a 4-2-3-1 system against Germany and Jones was benched for that game.

Talisman

Fluminese have beaten Argentinos Juniors 2-0, winning the tie 3-1 on aggregate. It will be interesting to see if there will be a bid from Liverpool for Andre Trinade now.

~Rebel~

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120955124#Comment_120955124

His price will have gone up anyway as I'm sure they'll want to keep him around for the quarter finals. Little enough chance of getting him before January now I'd say.

Widdensushi

FB_IMG_1691543007833.jpg

Sums up the thread 😁

LuckyLloyd

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/120953285#Comment_120953285

Good vibes only babes xx

That said, the hand wringing over the negotiating with Southampton misses the point. Lavia is not a serious solution for a team with ambitions of challenging for trophies. He’s a developmental prospect, who will be forced to play because we have nobody else.

Lavia got sliced and diced last year for a team that lost 25 games and conceded 73 goals. His acquisition doesn’t make us better or solve any problems.

There’s a long frustrating season ahead.

Riesen_Meal

https://twitter.com/_OnTheConcourse/status/1689200419103240192?s=20

Poor Ramsay...

Lad has been very unlucky with injury...

Plenty of time for him though at his age