Liverpool FC Team Talk, Gossip, Rumours 2024/25

Osmosis Jones · 02-10-2023 10:53am

Amazing that everyone can agree the PL refs are a problem until Liverpool mention it, now the refs are infallible and Liverpool are just whining.

Lauras Law · 02-10-2023 10:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184036#Comment_121184036

No offence but I think you need to educate yourself on the meaning of the word “everyone”.

McFly85 · 02-10-2023 10:58am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184012#Comment_121184012

Nah I’m pretty outraged too.

I fully expect Spurs to not care and take the 3 points, but it’s disappointing to see people defending the refereeing performance with whataboutery and both sides nonsense.

At every level on Saturday the referees failed.

blanch152 · 02-10-2023 11:01am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121183485#Comment_121183485

There is structured language in cricket and rugby. Anyone who has followed both of those games knows that errors by video referees are rare because of that and because of the professional way in which the conversations happen.

In soccer, we have nicknames being used - Tayls for Anthony Taylor is one I heard - and friendly discussion. A complete lack of professionalism.

I have said it many many times about refereeing in the Premier League, there are serious cultural issues there.

No Asian referees, one token referee of colour this season, one token woman, most referees from the Northwest of England, no international recruitment, how can you have competent referees when you recruit from such a limited pool?

Looking after your mates, as Mike Dean admitted to doing, is the result. Liverpool are the latest victim, but other teams have been victims too, the Brentford offside decision which would have seen Arsenal go eight points clear last season being one.

To give an example of how unstructured VAR is, just look at the Nketiah offside against Everton, VAR correctly ruled that Nketiah was in an offside position when the ball was played by Gabriel. However, they stepped into an on-field decision by also deciding that Beto had not played the ball deliberately. That is a decision for the on-field referee, and they should have sent him to the monitor to decide. The referee may well have decided that Beto did not make a deliberate play for the ball, and the offside may have stood. However, by denying him the chance to make that decision, VAR caused a problem for themselves. That decision is purely a result of the lack of procedures, the lack of structured language, the lack of professionalism.

Now, if you doubt what I am saying just think of why VAR works better in the Champions League and World Cup? Because it has to be more structured and professional due to different languages, different countries, different cultures. You don't have mates chatting to each other.

Osmosis Jones · 02-10-2023 11:04am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184054#Comment_121184054

Well done you've won your semantic argument, proud?

Ottoman_1000 · 02-10-2023 11:05am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184036#Comment_121184036

I find funny that Spurs fans of all fans are particularly up in arms at the outrage coming from Liverpool fans. This is the same group of fans who constantly bring up the 19 ECL final. A game in which they were completely hopeless in and lost 2 zip in the end.

DeanAustin · 02-10-2023 11:08am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184086#Comment_121184086

It's not semantics, your post was nonsense. No one thinks the refs are infallible much less "everyone". I've yet to hear anyone say that the offside decision on Saturday was correct - Spurs fans, United fans, City fans, Arsenal fans and Everton fans have all said the refs got it wrong. It's happened and the system needs to be fixed.

However, the reaction has been more extreme than from any other bad decision I can remember. And bad decisions have existed for as long as sport.

Fowler87 · 02-10-2023 11:19am

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121182989#Comment_121182989

Id say he aggravated the injury after scoring from a terrible tackle that went unpunished🙄 Hopefully he recovers well. Could have been worse

5starpool · 02-10-2023 11:36am

Zero chance Jones' red card gets appealed or overturned. Jota's can't be appealed afaik. He was extremely unlucky for the first yellow. The defender clipped his knee (rather than tripping himself as many are saying for some reason) but that is never a booking. The second one was just stupid by him though, just after getting a yellow. The ref was giving out cards like they were going out of fashion though, Salah's yellow was a joke too.

The minimum that needs to happen with VAR though after the Diaz **** up is that communication has to be improved. Refs need to say "check goal, on pitch decision offside" or similar, and the VAR should respond with something like "Check complete, VAR decision onside, award goal" or something equally clear. It wouldn't add any time to the process. I don't know why they aren't that prescriptive already given the focus on it all.

ConcertKing · 02-10-2023 11:45am

Still laughing at the ridiculously over the top celebrations by Spurs at beating 9 men.You would swear they won the Champions League.Have no doubt it will be the highlight of their season as they win nothing yet again!

https://youtu.be/zIlwMVkeJ5E?si=FkZfStTx5_iL49zw

And here is what it's like to win an actual Champions League by the way!

mightyreds · 02-10-2023 11:46am

I'm glad theres an extreme reaction so many bad decisions since late last year, some absolutely scandalous and all looked at by VAR, studs down Gapko's chest that left a trail mark down his front , Macallister red card, Diaz offside goal. It's ok to make mistakes but when you can stop play and analyse them and still get them wrong. These are decisions every pundit said were wrong when happening too, something needs to change.

5starpool · 02-10-2023 12:02pm

Technical procedures can be put in place to prevent the Diaz **** up happening again, fair enough.

Fixing subjective decisions that on review people agree are bad and wrong is a much harder thing to fix. The penalty Brentford should have had yesterday. That was a ridiculous one, and clearly wrong as well, there shouldn't be anything subjective there, but it was clearly a penalty that should have been given. Adjudicating 'excessive force', 'deliberate play' or 'unnatural position of the arm' is never going to be black and white and there will always be inconsistencies. It's when they get the basics so badly wrong that it makes a **** of the whole case for VAR in the first place. The Diaz goal, and Brentford penalty were both very wrong for very different reasons, and both were basic failures in VAR, one in process/comms, the other in judgement.

5starpool · 02-10-2023 12:07pm

On the MacAllister social media thing, this is like van Dijks additional game suspension earlier in the season. Players should know better than to do this, and should be clearly instructed by clubs to do nothing like this, whether on the pitch (arguing never changed a refs mind, especially after the review is complete) and social media posts like this are always acted upon. Players have emotions and things can get out of hand, but if the club isn't stressing this type of thing to players then they really should be.

In this instance, unless MacAllister has done similar in the past, hopefully it'll just be a warning as to future conduct in terms of social media.

SlickRic · 02-10-2023 12:41pm

Well, going into work was quite eye opening.

Rival fans seem to think this is just another case of VAR getting things a little wrong, and we should all move on.

And they’re not trolling.

Football rivalries are the weirdest, most one-eyed, nonsensical types of rivalries.

Princess Consuela Bananahammock · 02-10-2023 1:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184453#Comment_121184453

I think that's one of the sad issues about officiating - people have come to expect ****-ups of this magnitude.

rob316 · 02-10-2023 1:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184235#Comment_121184235

They still don't think that was a penalty 😂

ConcertKing · 02-10-2023 1:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184574#Comment_121184574

Even after all this time their salty tears taste oh so sweet! 🤣

citytillidie · 02-10-2023 1:36pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184574#Comment_121184574

If it VVD in the other box they would have been shouting for penalty, that is all you have to say to them

02-10-2023 1:39pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184574#Comment_121184574

Yeah, that the most bizaare thing I've read on here over this decision.

Spurs have never got over that CL defeat. That was their peak an they've been a mess since. Saturday was a cup final for them tbf, and you can't argue with their good start to the season.

I do think that they regard themselves as a big club. The roll of honours tell another story. The trophy haul in the last 20 years reads as follows :

1 x league cup.

DeanAustin · 02-10-2023 1:54pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184651#Comment_121184651

A few points of fact.

We got over the CL defeat pretty much straight away. There was no big campaign or club statements the next day. We got beat, in part because of a ropey/soft decision, but we moved on.
We weren't at our peak. Poch's team was on the way down at that point and our league form was horrendous from Christmas.
Saturday certainly wasn't a cup final. Jesus, we celebrated a last minute winner, as every fan base does but you won't find many Spurs fans drawing many conclusions from it.
Football wasn't invented 20 years ago. This is like me saying "well Man U have won a load of titles, Chelsea have won half a dozen and so have City and Liverpool have only won one. So all those clubs are bigger". Liverpool fans have created dozens of internet memes to show that football didn't start in 1992.

ConcertKing · 02-10-2023 1:57pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184718#Comment_121184718

🤣🤣🤣🤣

Left out alot of trophies conveniently!

BorneTobyWilde · 02-10-2023 2:00pm

I'm just shocked Hooper didn't give a second yellow to Alisson for punching the ball away.

WealthyB · 02-10-2023 2:01pm

I can't let this go.

Not one, not two, but all three VAR officials stopped watching the game, at the exact same time.
The moment all 3 VAR officials stopped watching the game coincided with a crucial incident in the game that would have turned the entire match.
The on-field communications from the VAR officials broke their own protocol for reasons unknown at this time. To give one example from VAR audio released by PGMOL from a previous game: "Craig, the lines have come out as onside, so I'm going to recommend that you award the goal. The recommendation is you award the goal". Instead, we're told in this instance, the VAR said just 2 words to the on-field Ref: "Check Complete".
Fatigue has been attributed (not by PGMOL it must be said) to this, because the 3 VAR officials were paid guests of the owners of Manchester City only 48 hours previously.

The accumulation and sequence of the first 3 events above to combine into one perfect storm is simply beyond the realms of probability. The last point is conspiratorial granted, but the first 3 separate incidents - all 3 Refs stop watching the match, at the exact same time, during a crucial moment, and then break their own protocol?

It was a fix. For anyone doubting me, who thinks it's mere incompetence, hit me up on Adverts because as mentioned before, I have plenty of bridges to sell.

WealthyB · 02-10-2023 2:04pm

On a side note, Tompkins has painted a pretty ugly picture of institutional bias against Liverpool here.

https://tomkinstimes.substack.com/p/referees-treat-lfc-very-differently

02-10-2023 2:05pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184718#Comment_121184718

Ok, let's go back 141 years and look at major honours. The ones that really matter.

2 league titles

0 European cups.

Until Spurs win something of importance they'll be forever known as a team whos fans love 'good football', but ultimately win **** all.

There's a reason Roy Keane said "Lads, it's only Spurs".

It'll happen at some stage no doubt but it's 62 years since the last league win. Even Everton have won the league since!

BorneTobyWilde · 02-10-2023 2:06pm

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eRScuxyQHkg

..

brevity · 02-10-2023 2:14pm

I think people are so accustomed to the incompetence that there is a general shrug of the shoulders about the whole thing.

BorneTobyWilde · 02-10-2023 2:17pm

I must have missed the part where PGMOL apologized in their statement. There is no apology, just a rambling about a human error.

Still waiting.....

5starpool · 02-10-2023 2:31pm

So Liverpool are appealing the Jones red. I'm surprised at that, and don't think there is any chance of it being overturned.

RonanG86 · 02-10-2023 2:41pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184765#Comment_121184765

I wouldn't be surprised if at least one of the assistant VAR officials did see the error, but didn't question Darren England's decision solely because he was the senior official there. "Oh Darren said the on pitch assistant gave it, he must be right and I've hallucinated that raised flag.". That sort of deferral to seniority happens in far more serious situations than refereeing a football game.

Then when the game went to restart, either England was too embarrassed to shout up and say "Wait! Stop! That was a goal!" before, or even as, Spurs took their freekick (how many times has a ref blown immediately after a set-piece been taken and ordered it re-taken? You seriously telling me that cos England got the decision wrong that very instant, it can't be rectified a minute later) or Hooper decided it was to embarrassing to pull the game back. Until they release the transcript, I will remain to be convinced otherwise.

There's also the question of what the hell was England doing that he apparently didn't realise the goal was ruled offside by the on pitch assistant ref? He had one job and cameras to help him with it, and he didn't do it. Was he watching Netflix on another monitor or something?

DeanAustin · 02-10-2023 2:42pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184796#Comment_121184796

So how many big clubs are there in England?

Just yourselves, City, Chelsea, United and Arsenal?

And remembering in 30 years, you've won 3 trophies that matter. United have won over a dozen, Chelsea have won more than twice as many, as have City.

So are you a once big club that's no longer big?

I think invoking Keane is the football argument equivalent of Godwinning someone...

5starpool · 02-10-2023 2:49pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185033#Comment_121185033

I don't really want to get into this argument, but Liverpool have won far more than 3 trophies in the last 30 years. I can't be bothered to count, but it's probably close to double figures, even ignoring world club cup, super cups, etc. Off the top of my head, 1 PL, 2 CL, 2 FA Cups, UEFA Cup, 3 League cups, and I may be forgetting some there too.

DeanAustin · 02-10-2023 2:52pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185068#Comment_121185068

You need to read the post I quoted from a Liverpool fan.

Anyway, doesn't really matter if we're a big club or small club. We all love the one we support and an argument could be made that there is more virtue in supporting a little club like Spurs rather than glory hunting and supporting a big club like Liverpool.

5starpool · 02-10-2023 3:09pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185080#Comment_121185080

I had missed that nuance alright. This "club X is not a big club" type nonsense is just that anyway, nonsense.

Electric Nitwit · 02-10-2023 3:20pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121184963#Comment_121184963

I'm with you. I do think it was a touch harsh, but not a blatant mistake, can't see it being overturned. The red itself wasn't too annoying, but the process was, the way the ref walked over to a still frame for a few seconds before seeing the replay, blatantly telling him what his decision should be

5starpool · 02-10-2023 3:34pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185240#Comment_121185240

Ya, I read somewhere that this is the basis of the complaint, that the VAR basically lead with the worst still image and just showed slow motion replays. Still seems unlikely to succeed to me, unless the FA think they owe us one, but I don't think it works that way!

02-10-2023 3:53pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185080#Comment_121185080

My foreign club is better than your foreign club.

Is it time to get the rulers out? 🤣

02-10-2023 3:56pm

Waste of time appealing the Jones red imo. He was unlucky that his foot slipped on top of the ball. It wasn't intentional.

The red will remain.

rob316 · 02-10-2023 4:05pm

If they overturn that red card, it'll get really interesting what happens with PGMOL over this game.

I don't think they will though.

giveitholly · 02-10-2023 4:13pm

Are they appealing the Jota red card?

rob316 · 02-10-2023 4:16pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185471#Comment_121185471

Its a double yellow, yellows cant be appealed/.

giveitholly · 02-10-2023 4:18pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185486#Comment_121185486

You learn something everyday!

mayordenis · 02-10-2023 4:21pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185471#Comment_121185471

You can't appeal 2 yellows, even though this red card was the ridiculous one, thems the rules.

mightyreds · 02-10-2023 4:29pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185033#Comment_121185033

I think he went back 141 years in his post

DeanAustin · 02-10-2023 4:35pm

https://www.boards.ie/discussion/comment/121185547#Comment_121185547

It's a really stupid argument though and a pathetic way to try and belittle a club - "We're a big club and ye aren't". Jesus.

Where do you draw the line? At 141 years? Then Sunderland and Sheffield Wednesday are amongst the biggest clubs in England. At 30 years? Then Liverpool aren't.